Issues with first grow. Whole thing doomed already?

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lvstealth

lvstealth

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ok, so they are autos... transplanting into anything isnt usually a good idea. looks like you started them and then transplanted already one time? mostly... start an auto in the pot it will end in.

if you were experienced i could see you maybe salvaging some in a transplant. but these are pretty wrecked.

you are a new grower, so just keep on keeping on, but today, in one of the 3 gallon (that is the 11l pots) start a brand new seed. use the paper towel method, or the water or whatever, but when it hits soil, make sure it is where it will end up. your 3 gallon (11l) are the smallest id go.

the soil is ph'd buffered to 6.5. no need to mess with ph.

dont feed it till you see those two very first leaves at the bottom turning yellow.

when you start it, water it. it most likely wont need water for a very long time.

it has that one tap root and that will try its best to get to the bottom of whatever pot you use. luckily, with gravity being what it is, the water made its way down too. so adding water while this one tiny little root is creeping to the bottom will go a long way into drowning it.

^^^^ that is one reason many want you to use a photo. at this point (and its looking like you did that) you made the little root gasp for air in the pool of water that is now its home. with a photo, you correct yourself, and pluck the dead stuff and wait longer. with an auto not so much.

if you were experienced i could suggest some things you could try to fool it into waiting to flower, but im gonna guess that wouldnt work if you dont have experience.

once you are to this point, it is much easier. there is an overwhelming urge to water it in a day, 2...3...4... but in that pot, it will be more like over a week. next, and this is important, read all the watering guides here. but start with this:


for the next bit, watch, and wait. the plant will tell you what it wants. you can inflict the most damage to an auto by thinking you can mess with it like a photo.

these plants will never produce much, they are stunted. and they eat resources ($, ferts, time, equipment) so, that is a decision for you. throw money at it and not get much, or restart and throw time at it and try to get more.

it would be a learning thing, but you would not really get that good warm fuzzy feeling from a good grow.

what light do you have? and what is the rest of the equipment situation (exhaust? fans? hum/dehum? temps and humidity? tent?)

keep in mind, autos are good, they are just not forgiving. photos are forgiving but come with a different set of issues like a need for a "total" dark cycle that autos dont need.

i guess i am most interested in the light, which do you have and what size space?
 
nekkul

nekkul

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No need to thank me. I wanna see everyone involved with growing to prosper.

Correct on the no rushing the natural processes. If i was you I would begin today on creating a compost pile. Banana peels, used coffee grounds, egg shells, alot of leaves from your yard, and mix well. Add water and let it do its thing. May have to turn your pile with a shovel to keep heat levels down depending on how large your compost pile is.

Since you said youre in the middle of nowhere i would suggest reading up and watching alot of videos on korean natural farming and its brother called Jadam...these are little to no cost ways of gardening and growing all organic plants. They use ingredients that are already in your house or very easily obtainable. Its practically free to begin making what they call "inputs"...these vary, some create the nutrients the plant needs like your NPK's and the other nutes needed and then theres also their microbiological inputs which add beneficial bacteria into your soil, the microbiology is of the upmost importance in soil as they actually feed your plant, not you! See how youre adding coffee and pine etc...well the baxteria and fungi are the ones who go at that stuff and then break it down making it available for your plant, your roots dont want coffee, they want what the coffee and pine is made up of. So by utilizing jadam and KNF, you become the shepard of the soil and its microbiology, then they do all the hard work...not just breaking down food for your plant but also fending off unwanted microbial life and unwanted fungus...a living healthy rootzone will work wonders for your plant..they microbiology will also fix your PH and keep it regulated as lomg as you dont overdo it with any of the nutes.

Making their inputs are SIMPLE and take a little time to create. Legit if you started today within 1 week to 10 days you can make about 5 of their inputs inorder to begin feeding your soil ASAP!

IF you take the jadam and KNF route, jusy make sure to learn as much as possible. Come back here and ask questions and then cross check the answers with the information provided by jadam and KNF. I highly suggest this to all who grow organic but even more for you being that youre out in the middle of nowhere and supplies arent easy to come by.
Those korean and japanese methods sound like spot on for me! Jadam! I'm excited! Great tip, never knew those things even exist. I like that "Shepard of The Soil"- thing, i'd love to be something like that, even though atm it feels like I have a long way to go, starting point being like "Executor of The Soil".
About composting - the issue is, that it's 7month winter (or, as we say, period with snow covering everything) here, atm theres -17 celcius outside. Even during spring and summer theres not much plants growing wildly and trees are short (human sized) too. Just dry white moss everywhere. So I should put compost indoors, and in that case it should be that japanese (?) small sized kitchen compost or something like that.
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

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even in cold, compost works fine, so if outside is what you want just start a pile... it will get so hot it steams! no matter the cold outside!

im old and getting around was my issue, so i started mine in a big garbage can. but i have a real home compost, not a compost aimed at anything (like cannabis) so i toss all food scraps, most things that decay, leaves, empty the grill ash in it, pretty much everything. i can knock it over and roll it to stir. i take parts from it and put with my used old soil with other good stuff added to grow my soil for my cannabis.

where i lived and raised my kids, we had a compost area, and it had been there for about a hundred years. it was great, but i didnt know how great till i didnt have it!!
 
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BirdLaw86

BirdLaw86

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tbh ive never heard of kitchen compost BUT IF IT EXISTS create some. My knowledge is limited and im learning more each day so i cant speak on cold temp compost however id imagine it might work as compost creates its own heat, maybe you can just make a pile and cover with a tarp and see what happens..hell worst case scenario you learn and then tell us and we learn...best case you got some good stuff for your next grow.

The microbiology is 80% for my success so far, the other 20 is these ladies and gents here who assist with my rambling issues 😂
And as stealth said about the autos, seems more for the experienced growers bc they already have their methods dialed in, photos take longer but are much easier to work with...mind you this comes from someone who killed every daisy and mum ever bought to make the house look nice...then i read jadam and knf and came here, now i got a plant with 40 to 50 tops on it. I truly couldnt have done any of it without the members here as they told me to top the plant, lst the plant, defoliate the plant etc...now im the proud father of a flourishing lil lady whos been through more stress than I could have imagined. I dropped twice during both transplants, burnt leaves, over watered and underwatered and shes still upstairs kickin ass and takin names.
 
nekkul

nekkul

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ok, so they are autos... transplanting into anything isnt usually a good idea. looks like you started them and then transplanted already one time? mostly... start an auto in the pot it will end in.

if you were experienced i could see you maybe salvaging some in a transplant. but these are pretty wrecked.

you are a new grower, so just keep on keeping on, but today, in one of the 3 gallon (that is the 11l pots) start a brand new seed. use the paper towel method, or the water or whatever, but when it hits soil, make sure it is where it will end up. your 3 gallon (11l) are the smallest id go.

the soil is ph'd buffered to 6.5. no need to mess with ph.

dont feed it till you see those two very first leaves at the bottom turning yellow.

when you start it, water it. it most likely wont need water for a very long time.

it has that one tap root and that will try its best to get to the bottom of whatever pot you use. luckily, with gravity being what it is, the water made its way down too. so adding water while this one tiny little root is creeping to the bottom will go a long way into drowning it.

^^^^ that is one reason many want you to use a photo. at this point (and its looking like you did that) you made the little root gasp for air in the pool of water that is now its home. with a photo, you correct yourself, and pluck the dead stuff and wait longer. with an auto not so much.

if you were experienced i could suggest some things you could try to fool it into waiting to flower, but im gonna guess that wouldnt work if you dont have experience.

once you are to this point, it is much easier. there is an overwhelming urge to water it in a day, 2...3...4... but in that pot, it will be more like over a week. next, and this is important, read all the watering guides here. but start with this:


for the next bit, watch, and wait. the plant will tell you what it wants. you can inflict the most damage to an auto by thinking you can mess with it like a photo.

these plants will never produce much, they are stunted. and they eat resources ($, ferts, time, equipment) so, that is a decision for you. throw money at it and not get much, or restart and throw time at it and try to get more.

it would be a learning thing, but you would not really get that good warm fuzzy feeling from a good grow.

what light do you have? and what is the rest of the equipment situation (exhaust? fans? hum/dehum? temps and humidity? tent?)

keep in mind, autos are good, they are just not forgiving. photos are forgiving but come with a different set of issues like a need for a "total" dark cycle that autos dont need.

i guess i am most interested in the light, which do you have and what size space?
I didn't understood perfectly few things you wrote, I'll translate them later today.
But yes - I germinated them in RQS's EasyStart-growing base, which had multiple small pits for seeds. When they were 2-3cm's tall, I moved them on these 11L pots, which I only had three ones.
Three NL autos, which I germinated later, are in 6L pots, each of them has her own pot.
I've barely been feeding, been too careful to avoid nute burn. Light was first poor LEDs, since the MH bulb I ordered, arrived broken. They got that 600w MH when they were 14 days old. Lately I switched 600w HPS.
Still waiting humidity-machine to arrive, ultrasonic mistmaker which I ordered weeks ago.
I have rather big fan, bringing air from outside in tent; pipes etc I made myself, as like the whole tent. Don't laugh 😅 ! HPS is 80cm's above from canopyes.
I feel like that rly stunted AK is nearly lost case anyway so if you have some good tips or thoughts about removing it safely enough not to hurt other well going two plants in the same pot, I'd love to hear them !!
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

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you want mist?

you need to get a grip on heat from your pics, and several look like they are unhappy about the light, but might just be heat with your light choice.

And as stealth said about the autos, seems more for the experienced growers ...
not at all what i said. i said i am pro autos. i feel people should start learning with autos. most people cant maintain a dark period and the environmental concerns involved in photos, they end up with 3 months of vegged plant with no structure and either plucked to death or netted too early or fed and watered so wrong it is sick... so they veg for a quarter of a year, then flower for a quarter of a year and get larf and seeds so they give up, or start over and over and over till they get something in a few years.

with the autos, you plant them, you know at about 2 weeks if it will go, then you have product to trim and giggle over in about 7 or 8 more weeks. if at about 10 to 20 days, you know it wont work, start over and you still have product in 10 more weeks. so you spend half the time, and get a result. then you aim for a better result and you improve your setup and you keep on keeping on.

i do not agree with keeping the auto after you see it is not great. toss and start again.

as for photos, and just an observable point, new people start them, they start with trying to over/under feed, over pluck, over everything them and keep going. so they are not ever ontop of learning to water (there is proof, look at the number of watering issues here! or anywhere on the net!)

they over water, then they post and people here say cal/mag, ph, a this or that deficiency but most of the time, it is that they never actually learned to water the plant. but you look at their pics and they have plucked, topped, clipped and netted the thing into oblivion. with an auto you are told not to. so you concentrate on environment and water. you can do things to an auto, but the general consensus and what is normally told is dont top, dont transplant, dont do anything that might upset her, so in all that not doing, you want to do something so you learn to water and keep your environment pleasant.

autos need the same things that any plant needs, the only difference is it keeps going through its timeline of life. photos, stay in one time of life till you make them go to the next.

autos are less likely to hermie (although so many dont know this, but look up the peer reviewed studies from wa state and the 2 from quebec institute and the 2 recent ones from the bc lab. they are scientific papers, if you are in school you can probably get them free, just use your college search feature and search autoflower, photoperiod, hermaphrodite and it returns about 20, you can see the ones on what you want.)

once you learn a few things, get more and better equipment, go through the goldilocks stuff then you will naturally move to some photos. and then you can mess with some topping, some pinching and some plucking and can be confident your environmental concerns are under control.
 
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growsince79

growsince79

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you want mist?

you need to get a grip on heat from your pics, and several look like they are unhappy about the light, but might just be heat with your light choice.


not at all what i said. i said i am pro autos. i feel people should start learning with autos. most people cant maintain a dark period and the environmental concerns involved in photos, they end up with 3 months of vegged plant with no structure and either plucked to death or netted too early or fed and watered so wrong it is sick... so they veg for a quarter of a year, then flower for a quarter of a year and get larf and seeds so they give up, or start over and over and over till they get something in a few years.

with the autos, you plant them, you know at about 2 weeks if it will go, then you have product to trim and giggle over in about 7 or 8 more weeks. if at about 10 to 20 days, you know it wont work, start over and you still have product in 10 more weeks. so you spend half the time, and get a result. then you aim for a better result and you improve your setup and you keep on keeping on.

i do not agree with keeping the auto after you see it is not great. toss and start again.

as for photos, and just an observable point, new people start them, they start with trying to over/under feed, over pluck, over everything them and keep going. so they are not ever ontop of learning to water (there is proof, look at the number of watering issues here! or anywhere on the net!)

they over water, then they post and people here say cal/mag, ph, a this or that deficiency but most of the time, it is that they never actually learned to water the plant. but you look at their pics and they have plucked, topped, clipped and netted the thing into oblivion. with an auto you are told not to. so you concentrate on environment and water. you can do things to an auto, but the general consensus and what is normally told is dont top, dont transplant, dont do anything that might upset her, so in all that not doing, you want to do something so you learn to water and keep your environment pleasant.

autos need the same things that any plant needs, the only difference is it keeps going through its timeline of life. photos, stay in one time of life till you make them go to the next.

autos are less likely to hermie (although so many dont know this, but look up the peer reviewed studies from wa state and the 2 from quebec institute and the 2 recent ones from the bc lab. they are scientific papers, if you are in school you can probably get them free, just use your college search feature and search autoflower, photoperiod, hermaphrodite and it returns about 20, you can see the ones on what you want.)

once you learn a few things, get more and better equipment, go through the goldilocks stuff then you will naturally move to some photos. and then you can mess with some topping, some pinching and some plucking and can be confident your environmental concerns are under control.
Never done autos and see no reason to start. IMO most modern photoperiod hybrids can be grown seed to harvest in 90-100 days. I see ne reason to ever veg more than 20-30 days. This is 82 days from seed.
1637258947033
 
TSD

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As far as the lake water, test the ph and if it's not insane, use it. I have a river in my back yard and once my girls go outside, they get river water or rain. The only thing with that is that there are other minerals and such in unknown amounts in that water that may possibly throw things off indoors, but there's also beneficial stuff like microbes and fish poo, so that's your call. Buildup and such is not so much of an issue outdoors because the rain and unrestricted space for roots tend to keep that in check. I would definitely start a compost for kitchen scraps and lawn debris to start some soil for future use. I throw in any fruit and veg scraps, coffee grounds, eggshells, leaves, grass clippings and my girl's fan leaves after harvest and garden debris in fall. Just no meat or bread or anything that will attract critters. I live in Northern NY, not Artic, but it's basically frozen from October to May most years, and my compost does beautifully. I just use a large hole in the ground with a board over it, I collect it in a bin out on my porch and bring it to the hole periodically...but there are a ton of ways to make a stand alone compost bin if you prefer. Any rogue earthworms I come across get chucked in there too, along with some of the nematodes I order every spring for my garden. There are sooo many ways to grow, just pick your preferred method and learn it, or you'll get overwhelmed by information.
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

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Never done autos and see no reason to start. IMO most modern photoperiod hybrids can be grown seed to harvest in 90-100 days. I see ne reason to ever veg more than 20-30 days. This is 82 days from seed.
i agree, YOU CAN DO THAT... but a brand new, first grow doesnt go like that. it goes with the new grower having a lot of small hiccups and a couple big ones and fixing and waiting for recovery and doing that a few times.

you missed my point.

you have to learn what you learned to get the results you get.

and btw, i was looking for you! i have some questions about what you do specifically.

1. you said several times 20 - 30 days veg, is there a specific thing you look for that happens about that time (some say when the not alternating branching starts, some say ... well they say a lot... but you have been doing this, and you have a system) i wondered if there was some trigger, or maybe just the day that happens between 10 and 20 where you dont have a hot date or a good movie...

2. do you prefer seeds or clones or just whatever is there?

3. what ferts or foods or the like do you use?

i ask for many reasons, but the biggest is that you seem to have a system and it seems straight and smooth. i like that and love knowing these data points! im not wanting to steal your method or things nefarious like that, i am just a curious sort. ...and forgive my brazenness... your shit dont stink
 
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growsince79

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i agree, YOU CAN DO THAT... but a brand new, first grow doesnt go like that. it goes with the new grower having a lot of small hiccups and a couple big ones and fixing and waiting for recovery and doing that a few times.

you missed my point.

you have to learn what you learned to get the results you get.

and btw, i was looking for you! i have some questions about what you do specifically.

1. you said several times 20 - 30 days veg, is there a specific thing you look for that happens about that time (some say when the not alternating branching starts, some say ... well they say a lot... but you have been doing this, and you have a system) i wondered if there was some trigger, or maybe just the day that happens between 10 and 20 where you dont have a hot date or a good movie...

2. do you prefer seeds or clones or just whatever is there?

3. what ferts or foods or the like do you use?

i ask for many reasons, but the biggest is that you seem to have a system and it seems straight and smooth. i like that and love knowing these data points! im not wanting to steal your method or things nefarious like that, i am just a curious sort. ...and forgive my brazenness... your shit dont stink
I don't want to jack this thread. Glad to answer any questions and share info here or pm.
 
TSD

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I like a long veg cycle cause I like my girls to grow into trees, so I usually veg for about 3 months indoors and then probably close to another month outdoors until the summer solstice hits and they naturally flip to flower. That's obviously not the way to go indoors cause you will run out of space.
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

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there are ways to lengthen or shorten the lifespan of an auto, just not the "change the light" method. and outdoors changes everything even for an auto!

once you have grown for a little bit you have a stash and immediate need isnt driving the grow. that is when you can play with a long grow. but till then, most growers start it because they want to smoke it
 
BirdLaw86

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😂well then ill disagree with stealth on the auto thing, pay attention to when it was said that autos arent as forgiving bc as it was also said, you can expect lots of "hiccups" and being that autos are not as forgiving when it comes to mistakes, that says to me that theyre harder for newer growers to dial in and get the desired results. Now as far as my point goes, Ive fucked shit up more times than i can count and its only been 70days. However, even with all those mistakes my lil ladys pretty resilient and looks to be on her way to a good harvest once flipped into flower. Also each and every one of those mistakes has taught me something for my next run, and once i fix the issue, she loves me again being that shes not a stuck up auto ...im not trying to argue, im simply trying to help ya to learn what i learned the hard way. If this was an auto, i woulda had to start over 8 times now. No bueno

This is coming from someone who has alloted tv time bc try to absorb so much info on cannibus growing as humanly possible and my wife isnt too coocoo for coca puffs as I am when it pertains to all things magically herbal. I spent 2 years reading and watching and rewatching the same stuff over and over...thought i wouldnt have too many mistakes and then when I popped my beans, shit hit the fan at every turn yet im still not discouraged bc of how well the photos done.
 
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TSD

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@BirdLaw86 I totally agree. I've made several blunders with photos over the years and they always bounce back and give me beautiful buds, because as long as you control the light, you basically have indefinite time to fix it... it's just a matter of how many resources you want to throw at it... some say it's not worth it to keep bringing a sad messed up plant back from the brink of death, but I say that's where the best learning happens... so I don't look at it as lost resources, I look at it as tuition to cannabis college. 🤣 With autos, there really isn't much room for error... so if they die, that's like paying your tuition then dropping out not having learned much... but even then, there's always knowledge gained through failure.
 
BirdLaw86

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Simply speaking from experience here. I thought i had it down to a science, took notes, wrote it all down and still ended up having to adjust. A bunch of mistakes but on the other hand im having a bunch of success. If it was an auto, id have to have planted 4 of them and still wouldnt know as much as i do now. Down the road ill do autos but for now im a photo guy.
 
nekkul

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I am atm diving in to the compost-knowledge and Jadam.
I live nearly 400km's above arctic circle, ground here is pure sand. No worms exist, but I've been thinking about ordering them somewhere.
I like the thought to give water from this lake, when watering plants. Though its ofc very cold, ice can hold a car already, so I would need to keep the watertank indoors and let it get close to 22 celcius?
But then, the unexpectable amount of different nutes, bacteria etc in lakewater makes me question this vision seriously, since something is definately wrong with my little plants and sudden change via different type of water & all the stuff it contains, would maybe be the last mistake to do?
Because I'm quite nervous right now, after taking a look on them without hps light on.
They've been fed 6 days ago, when I gave small amount of FloraMato. It was 2ml mixed in the total amount of water - which was enough to water them all then. CalMag they got really tiny amount ten days ago, it was first calmag they've had.
I'm mad because of that never-arriving mist maker - I had to block airpipe a moment ago, since it's -22 celcius outdoors and air is really dry because of it.
Photos are shitty quality! Nothing works today.
First one has NL, as the biggest ole of them. Near the edge of pot is Mimosas, one in left corner and one in right corner.
Second one is closer pic from NL's main top, behind it is Mimosas main top showing too.
Last one is from NL's far-streched side-branch. Looks somehow not good?
Adding more photos right away!
 
IMG 20211118 233011 62
IMG 20211118 233645 22
IMG 20211118 233018 92
nekkul

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First is Royal AK. She has been quite slow growing since the sprout, but been having good (?) color and no changes & things to worry about. Though now her new growth is a bit yellowish on tips.
Second is the poor one, AK too, i've began to think about moving her away from that pot, and giving her one smaller one as her own, even though I'm surprised if she makes it to the end. She is more than 2 times smaller than the next-smallest one.
Third is Mimosa. She smells really good!!
Last one is one of the young NL's, one of those three in 6L pots (containing one plant /pot!😅) they are 17 days old.
Next I'll add pics from the worst one, Mimosa, having something really wrong 😞
 
IMG 20211118 233124 42
IMG 20211118 233328 62
IMG 20211118 232951 12
IMG 20211118 232759 22
nekkul

nekkul

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Brown marks on leaves are slighty worse than yesterday. She looks bad. She was the one getting most light & heat until yesterday when I moved her further away from being right above the lamp.
 
IMG 20211118 233028 02
IMG 20211118 233058 02
nekkul

nekkul

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Could it be some defiences caused by too high pH ? And too thick soil without enough drainage has caused overwatering symptoms?
 
BirdLaw86

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All of those are possible. Drainage and proper watering is crucial. My mix is like 30 to 35% perlite and also has some natural tiny pebbles from outdoor soil and also contains some hydroton clay pebbles.

Do a test on ph with the dry chemical tests or a ph pen. Itll give you a better idea of whats goin on, if youre in the proper ph range then you can narrow it down and figure out whats wrong by checking ph or drainage or over watering off the list and see whats left as possible causes. The chem tests are cheap as hell. I use it and works fine.

Its better to under water, rather than over water. Keep that in mind. Proper watering practices are vital to a healthy plant.
 

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