Late veg deficiencies too risky to flip?

[Soyface]

Hello guys wanting some advice, my plant seems to have some deficiencies that don't really want to clear up but are still growing and i'm losing head space and have filled out the 5x5 prettry much wall to wall. I'm almost sure there is a nitrogen, phosphorus sulfur, and slight calmag deficiency. there are only two plants that are showing some signs of deficiency on the new growth and i'm hoping that some slight top dressing and another tea with gypsum next watering may fix it. Just top dressed with a couple tablespoons of worm castings and watered 3-3.5l per plant with some boogie brew compost tea. Anybody ever deal with rhe sane problem and be able to fix it during the flip to flower phase?
Photos are the affected new growth and canopy.

 

[Redneckx]

Hello guys wanting some advice, my plant seems to have some deficiencies that don't really want to clear up but are still growing and i'm losing head space and have filled out the 5x5 prettry much wall to wall. I'm almost sure there is a nitrogen, phosphorus sulfur, and slight calmag deficiency. there are only two plants that are showing some signs of deficiency on the new growth and i'm hoping that some slight top dressing and another tea with gypsum next watering may fix it. Just top dressed with a couple tablespoons of worm castings and watered 3-3.5l per plant with some boogie brew compost tea. Anybody ever deal with rhe sane problem and be able to fix it during the flip to flower phase?
Photos are the affected new growth and canopy.

Hey soyface, y build a huge canopy, maybe a little too big for the tent size?
It's always a stupid idea to flip dealing with those heavy issues.
The flower time will make it worse!
Fix it asap and then flip.

 

[FloridaMike]

is it affecting the older leaves as well? if not then your N & Mg should be ok bc they are both mobile elements (the plant will steal it from the older leaves to keep the top of the plant alive) if mostly the top it could be a zinc deficiency, which is usually caused by too high of ph in the root zone, which can be triggered or made worse by stress, such as light burn.
i'm not a dirt farmer, so take what i say with a grain of salt. i'm just throwing it out there to give other's something to consider.
we really need way more info b4 being able to properly diagnose correctly. such as light wattage and distance to canopy, temp, RH, soil mix, nutes fed during middle and late veg etc.
here is a good resource to start with. look through this,

https://www.growweedeasy.com/

come up with some ideas, then come back here (with full data points) and try to get a consensus
b4 trying anything drastic like flushing.
hope this helps get you heading in the right direction
g'luck, & keep growing, success will eventually come
-peace-

 

[amneziaHaze]

ISnt gypsum slow relese it will take some time before plant takes it all.why not epson salt?

 

[Soyface]

ISnt gypsum slow relese it will take some time before plant takes it all.why not epson salt?

Because i feel like my calcium is also lacking a bit, i plan to put in 1/2 tbs per gallon of water and just a pinch of epsom salts.

 

[Soyface]

Hey soyface, y build a huge canopy, maybe a little too big for the tent size?
It's always a stupid idea to flip dealing with those heavy issues.
The flower time will make it worse!
Fix it asap and then flip.

I agree i wish i hadn't of vegged so much but it's my first time and still trying to learn... And got it, i may have to top once more but i will wait for things to get better.

 

[Soyface]

is it affecting the older leaves as well? if not then your N & Mg should be ok bc they are both mobile elements (the plant will steal it from the older leaves to keep the top of the plant alive) if mostly the top it could be a zinc deficiency, which is usually caused by too high of ph in the root zone, which can be triggered or made worse by stress, such as light burn.
i'm not a dirt farmer, so take what i say with a grain of salt. i'm just throwing it out there to give other's something to consider.
we really need way more info b4 being able to properly diagnose correctly. such as light wattage and distance to canopy, temp, RH, soil mix, nutes fed during middle and late veg etc.
here is a good resource to start with. look through this,

https://www.growweedeasy.com/

come up with some ideas, then come back here (with full data points) and try to get a consensus
b4 trying anything drastic like flushing.
hope this helps get you heading in the right direction
g'luck, & keep growing, success will eventually come
-peace-

It is affecting my lower growth, several leaves dying which looks mainly like a nitrogen deficiency, but i have some weird looking leaves here and there that look like the thumbnail for phosphorus deficiency on the growweedeasy guide.
And yeah i think you're right and it's more of zinc issue rather than sulfur, i don't know how i got to sulfur. I don't check ph but i'll have to start and also start adding citric acid to the water to ph down and maybe seeing about adding some more dolomite lime..
Light wattage for the past 40-50 days has been around 20-30% on a 1050 watt light, distance is around 17 inches from the tops.
Temps the same past 40-50 days has been an average of 58f lights off and 66f lights on.
Rh has been 78% average lights off and 67% lights on.
Soil mix was based on the recipe of 'weed in a pot' so it was a 2-10 pound blocks of coco coir, 1&3/4cubic feet of pumice, around 15-20 pounds of compost and 5-10 pounds of earthworm castings, around 3&1/2 cups of dr earth 4-6-3 2 cups of general organics 4-4-4 around about 3/4 of a cup of bone meal 2-14-0 1 cup of alfafa meal 1/2 cup of bat guano 3 cups of dte azomite 3 cups of gai green glacial rock dust 1&1/2 cups of gypsum and 1/2 cup of dolomite lime.
I mixed all of this up a while ago so it's more or less around those numbers...
All i did for early and mid veg was give them a little bit of worm castings or compost and bone meal. It was all that i had at the time. I probably gave them either a cup of compost each or 4 or 5 tbs of worm castings every 3 weeks or so along with 1-2 tbs of bone meal. So they've all been starving for a while is what i'm assuming.

 

[Soyface]

Undercanopy seems to be a bit greener after last feeding and does anybody know why some leaves have dark coloring to them? Would cold temps cause vegging plants to change color?

 

[longbottom]

I've made the mistake of two many tops for a small pot of soil. I had a trellis net grow (scrog) with over 30 tops in 5 gallons of soil and it was too much to handle. Impossible to increase feed enough without salt buildup and lockout. In the end I started to grow with less tops (colas)... as an experiment I went down to 8 colas and 3 gallons of soil. Problem solved.

If you flip now, I'd bet money all hell will break out in a few weeks of flower. If I were you, I'd defoliate hard now in Veg. Your leafs are looking a little pale IMO, maybe light on N?


Too many tops for too little soil..

 

[Soyface]

I've made the mistake of two many tops for a small pot of soil. I had a trellis net grow (scrog) with over 30 tops in 5 gallons of soil and it was too much to handle. Impossible to increase feed enough without salt buildup and lockout. In the end I started to grow with less tops (colas)... as an experiment I went down to 8 colas and 3 gallons of soil. Problem solved.

If you flip now, I'd bet money all hell will break out in a few weeks of flower. If I were you, I'd defoliate hard now in Veg. Your leafs are looking a little pale IMO, maybe light on N?


Too many tops for too little soil..

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Yeah it seems like that one particular plant that is all lime green amd yellowy might be to big, it's my biggest plant and i haven't counted the tops but it looks like there are twice the amount of tops compared to the rest but it is the saddest of them all... It is low on nitrogen but seems like i've also got a lock out on some immobile nutrient, being that my newer growth is turning more yellow on the top than the bottom.
I'm thinking i overwatered because it was droopy for about 1 1/2 weeks my soil compacted and probably caused the zinc and other nutrient lock out.
Just broke up the top layers yesterday with a toothpick and barbecue skewer pick and plan to feed it a bit more next watering with 4 tbsp of azomite on all 6 plants, maybe a full cup of worm castings on the big one and half a cup for the rest, some vinegar in their water to try and lower ph to get that zinc back, and maybe also just a pinch of epsom salts. Lul i hope i don't end causing even more problems with my concoction though.
Also trying to begin making fungal teas for the ph balance as well.

 

[PooToe]

Why not lollipop the plants and do a hard defol so that they can direct whatever meager resources they have available to them to the canopy and get some light and air down in there?

From the pics it looks to be pretty dense down there......

 

[Soyface]

Why not lollipop the plants and do a hard defol so that they can direct whatever meager resources they have available to them to the canopy and get some light and air down in there?

From the pics it looks to be pretty dense down there......

I've been tempted for a while but not certain it would fix it, i've been feeding them pretty lightly and overwatering so i'm hoping if i can fix that instead i'll be in a better position
I'm hoping that next top dressing and tea will do it now that the soil isn't compacted and hopefully the medium for my fungal tea will be ready in the next day or so, i plan on top dressing with more worm castings, azomite, and the fungal tea that will have a bit of almost all nutrients required by the plants.

 

[weed4we]

As plant get larger they require more nutrition to support new growth. I suggest feeding them more often, use some organic dry ammendments in addition to ewc. This is if you want those huge plants to produce a huge yeild.

Cleaning up the lower part that not getting light will increase airflow and allow the plant to focus on the newer growth where the best buds come from. No one likes trimming larf anyway.

water as necessary (ph 6-7) with no little run off, dont leech your nutes out. If you flip without fixing the basics you will cry in flower. Best of luck.

 

[capone304]

Hello guys wanting some advice, my plant seems to have some deficiencies that don't really want to clear up but are still growing and i'm losing head space and have filled out the 5x5 prettry much wall to wall. I'm almost sure there is a nitrogen, phosphorus sulfur, and slight calmag deficiency. there are only two plants that are showing some signs of deficiency on the new growth and i'm hoping that some slight top dressing and another tea with gypsum next watering may fix it. Just top dressed with a couple tablespoons of worm castings and watered 3-3.5l per plant with some boogie brew compost tea. Anybody ever deal with rhe sane problem and be able to fix it during the flip to flower phase?
Photos are the affected new growth and canopy.

Good ole boogie brew those guys are crazy man lol especially TD that mother fucker grows some trees and I mean legit trees 10lbs per

 

[Newty]

I would try and get temps up as well. 65 lights on 58 lights off is to chilly IMO, especially for a plant in veg. I would aim for closer to around 78 lights on and 68 off. Cooler temps in middle and more so in late flower will be beneficial though.

 

[Mikedin]

I would try and get temps up as well. 65 lights on 58 lights off is to chilly IMO, especially for a plant in veg. I would aim for closer to around 78 lights on and 68 off. Cooler temps in middle and more so in late flower will be beneficial though.

Agreed temps too low, I prefer 81 lights on and 71 lights out,

I also agree with the above comment to lollipop, plant is trying to repair itself, removal of older foliage will promote healthier new growth and let the plant use resources that will benefit future plant health

 

[chitownglass]

You need to do a heavy defoliation/lollipopping campaign. That will slow them down a bit and promote healthy new leaf growth. To me it looks like your plants are just hungry. They are really big, thus needing a lot more food. I would add earthworm castings, and top dress some veg nutes after defoliating. It also wouldn't hurt to feed your microbes with some molasses or a tea. I saw that this is your first grow. If I could give you any advice it would be to start smaller at first and keep it simple. For example: Roots Organic soil, earthworm castings, and a bit of gaia green should be enough to get you to flower. I wouldn't try so hard to fill the canopy completely at first. A quick 4 week veg is what you should aim for until you become more familiar with the process. Huge plants and filled out canopies are great but you run into a lot more problems if you aren't dialed in with the food. Its way easier to grow a few smaller healthy plants as opposed to huge monsters. At least thats hiw I feel.

 

[PooToe]

I've been tempted for a while but not certain it would fix it, i've been feeding them pretty lightly and overwatering so i'm hoping if i can fix that instead i'll be in a better position
I'm hoping that next top dressing and tea will do it now that the soil isn't compacted and hopefully the medium for my fungal tea will be ready in the next day or so, i plan on top dressing with more worm castings, azomite, and the fungal tea that will have a bit of almost all nutrients required by the plants.

Are you trying to do an organic grow? If not I would dispense with the worm casting and other stuff and look to a nutrient blend that can supply all the macro and micro nutrients the plant needs. You need something that is more immediate in regard to nutrients. Organic nutrients are going to take a second to become soluble to the root system whereas the salt based ferts are already chelated for takeup. I use salt based ferts so I'm biased but I think a few feeds of salt based grow with some cal/mag supplementation should clear up whatever deficiency issues you are having. That and a good defoliation should pair the plants down to a more manageable form.