Leaves canoeing and curling - no obvious reason

[eFeNGee]

Hello guys.

So the leaves started canoeing and curling like crazy. I can't figure out why. I set the environment exactly like i did every other time.

It's Cherlato 2.0 from Relentless genetics, temp 25°C day, 22°C night. RH 65% day, 55% night. They're under 450W LED turned down to 45% @60cm height (approx 400ppfd). Plants are in soil, no feeding so far, pH 6.0.
It's getting worse with time, new growth being affected and the plants are generally slow growing. They're one month old.
I've tried lowering and rising the humidity, reducing the light intensity, but with no success.
It really breaks my heart, it's $500 in seeds, problems with transporting them to my country.. just to see them getting sick.

Any advice/opinion is aprreciated. Thanks ✌

 

[indogrow420]

Hey , looks like some form of heat stress but you mentioned your temps are good..

Is your canopy (top) Leaf temperature on point?
Try raising the light a bit more, then re-adjust intensity % to recommended ppfd.
The lower leaves look fine, overall a healthy plant.
Some genetics are more temp sensitive than others.

 

[eFeNGee]

The temp reading is from sensor placed at canopy level, so it should be accurate.

They were just fine until I topped them. I've had topped plants under one light and few one week younger ones not-topped under the other, both lights at same height and intensity. The topped ones started curling, the other ones were fine. After topping, they started curling as well.

 

[indogrow420]

Hmm I'm not quite sure but others will soon chime in..
Either the light is too close, or the fan too strong/close or the box/tent/room is too hot. Something is making them transpire, some strains likes lower RH

I seen something similar caused by high light intensity too but if your ppfd is 400..
and if you have a fan make sure its not blowing on the plants directly.

Try raising the light a fair bit and re-adjust the ppfd like I mentioned . goodluck on the grow dude

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

The temp reading is from sensor placed at canopy level, so it should be accurate.

They were just fine until I topped them. I've had topped plants under one light and few one week younger ones not-topped under the other, both lights at same height and intensity. The topped ones started curling, the other ones were fine. After topping, they started curling as well.

the way you describe it sounds as if it's related to the topping - which will causeva hormone change inside the plant. not all genetics take kindly to that. I've had strains stall out for 2 weeks or throw balls in veg at the topped node the very next day, but never these leaves.
maybe they recover within a week or 2

 

[Aqua Man]

Do you have a fan on them?

What light cycle are you running?

How are you taking your par readings? If app what app and on android of iPhone?

Have you scoped for russet mites? They are absolutely tiny and tou will not be able to see them with the naked eye.

Air temps dont really matter all that much its the leafs temps that get high and a few things like light can affect that. Plants convert excess light to heat.

 

[Aqua Man]

Also how are you determining when to water?

 

[eFeNGee]

Thanks everybody for responses.

@Aqua Man : I do have multiple osscilating fans set on low power blowing from a distance and above the plants, so i wouldn't expect windburn.

I'm on 18/6 schedule, for PAR readings I'm using the ppfd chart from the manufacturer. It says 950ppfd @60cm on 100%. So 45% gives 450ppfd, right? I am using Marshydro TS3000.

I've only quickly scoped for mites and have seen none. I'll take a look again today.

Unfortunately I don't have an IR thermometer, will get one for sure, but i don't think the heat could be a problem. The LED lights emit barely any heat from such distance from canopy. I'll try to reduce the light intensity again, but I've tried it already with no visible result.

I'm watering every third day, 3.5 litres of water (they're in 25L fabric pots).

 

[Aqua Man]

Thanks everybody for responses.

@Aqua Man : I do have multiple osscilating fans set on low power blowing from a distance and above the plants, so i wouldn't expect windburn.

I'm on 18/6 schedule, for PAR readings I'm using the ppfd chart from the manufacturer. It says 950ppfd @60cm on 100%. So 45% gives 450ppfd, right? I am using Marshydro TS3000.

I've only quickly scoped for mites and have seen none. I'll take a look again today.

Unfortunately I don't have an IR thermometer, will get one for sure, but i don't think the heat could be a problem. The LED lights emit barely any heat from such distance from canopy. I'll try to reduce the light intensity again, but I've tried it already with no visible result.

I'm watering every third day, 3.5 litres of water (they're in 25L fabric pots).

Are you getting runoff? You don’t need runoff in organics but you do need to make sure your saturating the pot. So water evenly until you see a few drips. If you dont it can cause hydrophobic parts in the soil.

Light doesn’t work that way where you just half the power and it equals half the intensity. Back the light off to about 3ft.

What light is it?

You only need one fan on low right now and pointed along the wall. They are not dense enough plants to require any direct airflow from a fan. Just need air movement and mixing in the tent.

At this point the leaves will not get better but new growth should show improvement as it grows so give it a week.

But i feel like the light needs adjusted so some info on it and i can better give advice on it

 

[eFeNGee]

Also it's a sealed grow room, ppm is around 400-450. I've been thinking about outgassing, but i have an air purifier with formaldehyde filter.

The light is Marshydro TS3000, 450W quantum board, four of them in total. I said "multiple fans" just because I have 2.4m x 2.4m tent divided into four equal "quadrants", 1.2x1.2m each. I mean imaginary quadrants, it's really just one big tent. I have 4 plants in each quandrant with one Marshydro TS3000 above them, I am currently using one fan for each quandrant.

I usually water with no runoff during veg stage and I've never had a problem, but I'll give them enough water to get runoff next watering. I should mention that I transplanted them like 2 days ago from 1L pots into 25L pots. Truth is that my watering schedule was pretty shitty before transplanting.

 

[Aqua Man]

Also it's a sealed grow room, ppm is around 400-450. I've been thinking about outgassing, but i have an air purifier with formaldehyde filter.

The light is Marshydro TS3000, 450W quantum board, four of them in total. I said "multiple fans" just because I have 2.4m x 2.4m tent divided into four equal "quadrants", 1.2x1.2m each. I mean imaginary quadrants, it's really just one big tent. I have 4 plants in each quandrant with one Marshydro TS3000 above them, I am currently using one fan for each quandrant.

I usually water with no runoff during veg stage and I've never had a problem, but I'll give them enough water to get runoff next watering. I should mention that I transplanted them like 2 days ago from 1L pots into 25L pots. Truth is that my watering schedule was pretty shitty before transplanting.

Dont need runoff just a dribble.

Raise the light up to 3ft at 50% and give them a week to show improvement. Turn the fans away from the plants.

 

[eFeNGee]

Okey chief, will do. ✌ I'll post here some results in a week.

Thank you all again for the answers, you guys are the best.

 

[Shaded_One]

You have 1400w of LED....back off the intensity and watch for improvements. Seems to be impacting the leaves closest to the light(s).

EDIT: Monday morning and math make me stupid. You actually have 1800w of LED :p Most people run a 450w panel in a 4x4. If you're crazy like me you'll push 600w+ in a 4x4. Right now you have the equivalent of 900w in a 4x4!!

 

[eFeNGee]

Incorrect. I have 8x8 tent, that's equivalent of four 4x4 tents. So it's really just 450W for 4x4.
In my first run, I've been using 100% of its power during flower with 1200ppm, harvested 1.4g/W. In my second run, i've set the lights to 80% and harvested 1.4g/W too. Seems like i can't use the lights correctly even in my 3rd run.

 

[Shaded_One]

Incorrect. I have 8x8 tent, that's equivalent of four 4x4 tents. So it's really just 450W for 4x4.
In my first run, I've been using 100% of its power during flower with 1200ppm, harvested 1.4g/W. In my second run, i've set the lights to 80% and harvested 1.4g/W too. Seems like i can't use the lights correctly even in my 3rd run.

Yeah you right that is some pretty severe canoe going on though.

 

[Aqua Man]

Poison is in the dosage

 

[eFeNGee]

Guys, explain this.
Untopped, sitting at the same height, one of the fans blowing right at her. Still in the 1L pot, watered with water right from the tap. Healthy af.

 

[Aqua Man]

Guys, explain this.
Untopped, sitting at the same height, one of the fans blowing right at her. Still in the 1L pot, watered with water right from the tap. Healthy af.

Still see light stress on those… are they clones identical to the other plants? Not all strains handle the same amount of light.

There can be many factors in ine issue…. Partially wind as this can cause faster evaporation causing media to dry out faster and uptake to be faster… i cant cover every variable but yeah even if the are clined from the sane mother there can be many reasons


Ppfd can be slightly or in some cases significantly different from placement to another. Usually its a combination of things which is why i didnt say just light but rather the factors that i felt had any influence on that plant

 

[Aqua Man]

Plant diagnosis imo cant be done when thinking linearly or picking one thing.

Its dynamic and you need to account for all influences and how they can effect eachother.

It’s possible that plant had to much wind directed at the pot or the plant. So maybe that particular plant dries out a lot faster and cant transpire enough to keep leaf temps cool.

Im confident if you reposition the fans so they make a cyclone type effect, raise the lights and water as i described your issue will correct themselves over the next week.

As long as its not russet mites

 

[Shaded_One]

As long as its not russet mites

Which is a legit concern especially with the severity!