Light burn or deficiency progressing ?

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Zen_Seeker

Zen_Seeker

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@Week4Bytch
Soil grow keeping organic where I can.

Update 3:

Clones still look great no leaf issues. Topped each of their pots with mixed soil and gave a light mist followed with worm cast foliar spray. Original watering should last all week.
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Main plant seems about the same but slower growth. New leaves still seem lighter and I noticed in two places that if I lifted a leaf off a leaf the bottom leaf was darker where covered.
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This is a 25’ish liter soft pot filled with 20L soil mix, worm castings & Sunshine 4.

About 1 cm of mixed top soil added after flush. Soil was a hair over 6PH. No water added since flush on Dec 31.

Soil is moist at 3” deep. Pot still has weight. Trying not to spray or foliar her.
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So going forward I’m still not 100% sure what set her off. Onset of lockout, to close to light, nute & ph issue? I think a little bit of leaf spot burns came from the lights coming on after a foliar spray done just before the flush. As it only seems to be some leaves near the top. Not latest growth. Some claw from all the water and maybe a little wind burn.
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Friday I think I can water with just ph adjusted water on the topped soil. After that I was going to see if I can find the ingredients local at my stores to make “The Recipe”. I can find Grotek Gro-Silic for $100 but no idea where I can get Mr Fulvic. I don’t internet shop.

I could just go back to Fox Farm nutes and see if that helps, half strength, but I’d like to do better.

Money went into hardware this grow so cash is tight but I have the following on had;

Sunshine soil
Gaia worm castings
Gaia green sand
Jobes organic 4-4-4 small pellets
Fox farm grow big
Fox farm tiger bloom
GH PH Up
GH PH Down phosphoric acid
Bottled water - typical grocery store
24+ Hour old tap water PH usually 7-7.4

Anything else I’ll need to run out and get.

Glass digital PH meter arrives in mid February. No ppm meter either.

Next step suggestion?
 
ezenzyme

ezenzyme

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Your root bound causing a lot more problems. things can look like lock out when the root ball is so dense that it rejects water allowing for pockets of hydrophobic soils to develop. 25L? Thats a 6 gal pot for over 30 days? i would totally slap that baby into a 25GAL pot defoliate everything not getting light and hit them with Grow Big every second watering.
Whats up with the watering? Looks like a giant mound of dirt around the stem with a shallow dish that has....drip ring?
How much water how often?
How much food how often?
Did you by chance bury the plants stem deeper than the original soil line or rockwool/plug level? If you did, could quite possibly be stem rot and you need to handle asap!
 
Zen_Seeker

Zen_Seeker

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Your root bound causing a lot more problems. things can look like lock out when the root ball is so dense that it rejects water allowing for pockets of hydrophobic soils to develop.
Transplanted from 5L to 25L December 4th. So a month ago exactly. She was left vegging in the 5L as the big tent was full, since October. These soft pots are great but there could be a root issue I missed. She grew quickly after the transplant but with the leaf discolouration.

25L? Thats a 6 gal pot for over 30 days? i would totally slap that baby into a 25GAL pot defoliate everything not getting light and hit them with Grow Big every second watering.
About 5Gal I think. It’s as large as I ever go, never had an issue. 4 of these pots is the most I do in my 3x3. I’m trying to go organic on this grow using this plant as the tester. Not planning to do more defoliation until she’s better. Less stress. Then defoliate and flip.

Whats up with the watering? Looks like a giant mound of dirt around the stem with a shallow dish that has....drip ring?
How much water how often?
How much food how often?
Not sure what you mean? Plant was watered only when meter said it was less than half way. Try to let pot dry out a few days before next watering.

Usually it’s about 3L of water every 3 days I guess, for a plant this size. Depending on time of year and size of plant.

This soil mix is light and airy. Any water in the pot moves the earth to the outside. I don’t water at the stem so when dry I use fingers to gently put soil back and start all over.

Did you by chance bury the plants stem deeper than the original soil line or rockwool/plug level? If you did, could quite possibly be stem rot and you need to handle asap!
Yes. 90% of the time I bury the stem a little deeper every transplant. Never had an issue. No rot or smell. Top 3” never damp enough. Can’t even get a PH reading unless I just watered that minute.

After flush I could see roots on top and no rot. I wait a week before watering after a flush unless it’s summer and plant needs more. Pot still has weight after 4 days.

Left space for new soil & dry nutes on top of pot. Only added 1cm of mixed soil/nutes since flush. Again, waiting a week to see how things are after flush.
 
Week4Bytch

Week4Bytch

The Cannabis Karen (I'm a Bytch)
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Transplanted from 5L to 25L December 4th. So a month ago exactly. She was left vegging in the 5L as the big tent was full, since October. These soft pots are great but there could be a root issue I missed. She grew quickly after the transplant but with the leaf discolouration.


About 5Gal I think. It’s as large as I ever go, never had an issue. 4 of these pots is the most I do in my 3x3. I’m trying to go organic on this grow using this plant as the tester. Not planning to do more defoliation until she’s better. Less stress. Then defoliate and flip.


Not sure what you mean? Plant was watered only when meter said it was less than half way. Try to let pot dry out a few days before next watering.

Usually it’s about 3L of water every 3 days I guess, for a plant this size. Depending on time of year and size of plant.

This soil mix is light and airy. Any water in the pot moves the earth to the outside. I don’t water at the stem so when dry I use fingers to gently put soil back and start all over.


Yes. 90% of the time I bury the stem a little deeper every transplant. Never had an issue. No rot or smell. Top 3” never damp enough. Can’t even get a PH reading unless I just watered that minute.

After flush I could see roots on top and no rot. I wait a week before watering after a flush unless it’s summer and plant needs more. Pot still has weight after 4 days.

Left space for new soil & dry nutes on top of pot. Only added 1cm of mixed soil/nutes since flush. Again, waiting a week to see how things are after flush.
if your using bottled nutes then you probably want to flush at some point to get rid of some of that salt build up. In an organic grow you would just use the dry amendments and that's it. I still struggle with this personally and have yet to do a dry amendments only grow. I get anxious about not having some sort of bottle around. This next grow will be my most organic grow to date, dry amendments ONLY. I have a little liquid kelp around and will have to do some deep research if this is considered "Organic" or not. The idea behind flushing is to get the salt out of your soil, it builds up on every feed. With organic dry amendments, no salts, no salt build up, no need to flush. Synthetic growing is a total different mindset than one would approach it organically. One feeds the plant directly (synthetic), the other feeds the soil (organic). You try both methods on a grow...you start chasing your tail at some point. And both have different optimum soil pH ranges, hence the reason to choose which way your going with your grow. Organics range is 6-7 and some say a little above 6.5 is idea as the microbiology flourishes there, bottled nutes range is about what, 5-6 pH ... so there's a 100fold difference there..
 
GreenGalaxyFarm

GreenGalaxyFarm

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Transplanted from 5L to 25L December 4th. So a month ago exactly. She was left vegging in the 5L as the big tent was full, since October. These soft pots are great but there could be a root issue I missed. She grew quickly after the transplant but with the leaf discolouration.


About 5Gal I think. It’s as large as I ever go, never had an issue. 4 of these pots is the most I do in my 3x3. I’m trying to go organic on this grow using this plant as the tester. Not planning to do more defoliation until she’s better. Less stress. Then defoliate and flip.


Not sure what you mean? Plant was watered only when meter said it was less than half way. Try to let pot dry out a few days before next watering.

Usually it’s about 3L of water every 3 days I guess, for a plant this size. Depending on time of year and size of plant.

This soil mix is light and airy. Any water in the pot moves the earth to the outside. I don’t water at the stem so when dry I use fingers to gently put soil back and start all over.


Yes. 90% of the time I bury the stem a little deeper every transplant. Never had an issue. No rot or smell. Top 3” never damp enough. Can’t even get a PH reading unless I just watered that minute.

After flush I could see roots on top and no rot. I wait a week before watering after a flush unless it’s summer and plant needs more. Pot still has weight after 4 days.

Left space for new soil & dry nutes on top of pot. Only added 1cm of mixed soil/nutes since flush. Again, waiting a week to see how things are after flush.
plants dont tend to go much rootbound wiht fabric pots as they air prune
 
Zen_Seeker

Zen_Seeker

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plants dont tend to go much rootbound wiht fabric pots as they air prune
Agreed. I peel the old pots off and reuse them after a cleaning. Never seen a root issue, so far.

Also noticed and then researched a little on roots growing from stem at soil line. Seems that cannabis will grow roots from the stem if it gets buried. To save a little grow space I plant it lower in the pots and top with dry nutes & soil as needed. Only started doing this last grow but seems to work fine.
 
GreenGalaxyFarm

GreenGalaxyFarm

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Agreed. I peel the old pots off and reuse them after a cleaning. Never seen a root issue, so far.

Also noticed and then researched a little on roots growing from stem at soil line. Seems that cannabis will grow roots from the stem if it gets buried. To save a little grow space I plant it lower in the pots and top with dry nutes & soil as needed. Only started doing this last grow but seems to work fine.
are you using organic dry soil amendments/fertilizer?
 
ezenzyme

ezenzyme

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heres a buncha bad information!!!! Jeeze you guys!!! Airpots can 100% become root bound, just because the air kills off a few cm of root tips does not mean the roots cant coil and bind in there. I have some moms in ten gal cloth pots that need water twice daily because of the amount of roots. Also just because plants will shoot large greenish looking roots out at the base does not mean you can bury your stem!!! I have personally delt with stem rot before and its very real, but dont believe me? bury those stems!!!! Stem rot doesn't smell bad or look like fungi or mold, it is just a squishy spot on the stem starting with mild discoloration yellowing and small squish, and building to brownish and very squishy. It will develop at your ORIGINAL soil line, not at the 3in false soil line, and coincidentally the plants looks pretty damm close to your plant there. They droop and yellow for no reason.....

So dig, sunshine mix with worm has no ammending beyond some gypsum and lime...sunshine is a base mix intended for mixing with amendments and compost. So you soil has minimal amounts of nutrition store bought worm is a joke even the 50$$ bags of roots or whatever..... If you not feeding her its not a surprise she's all hungry. By food i mean nutrients, are you feeding liquid, doing scratch ins? this is your first Organic run? You were growing differently before? Og gardening is way different than salt gardens. Different learning curve. And this is where we get to discussing pot size for organics! In whatever mix of soil you prefer when running salts or organic liquid nutrients you can keep a plant looking and doing really happy in a tiny vessle, but the second you take away the bottle everything goes hay wire. When your growing in organics soil base does matter because its the loving(living) soil food web that provides your plant with food not the bottle. The more surface area for your microbes to thrive the more nutrients they can celate making them bio available to your plants. Next run go to a 30g pot, amend the living balls outta it, cook out your super soil or buy a pre amended mix like what BAS offers and blast them with penny saving organic nutes like fish malted barley sprouted seeds and kelp!!! You will be blown away mate!

Heres what i would do;
Ditch the cheezy meter, those things suck and are not accurate. Water based upon the plant turgor pressure and perk or by the weight of the pot. If the top 3 inches are dry your plant is much too dry, i do second knuckle is emergency watering time it shouldn't get to that point. You should probably be watering daily small amounts(possibly twice a day) defiantly not every third day with a large amount.
Take that stuff off around the stem and keep the original soil line forever. Make a SMALL mound around the stem to keep water off and dish the rest of the pot. When top dressing you scratch in breaking up the top surface of the dirt.
More frequent waterings with less water in each one. and start feeding that baba stat!!!! Like for real every second watering and scratch in every ten days.

after fully understanding this situation heres my read; This plant has become massively root bound, does that mean theres roots growing out of the pot? No this means that there is such a massive amount of roots and such little soil that the dirt is having trouble up-taking the water. When the roots get so massive like that water has issues penetrating and hydrating, then it causes pockets of hydrophobic soils that reject the water even more!! What you get is plants that look like they are pissed and thirsty, but wont take the water!! Then the tendency is to give them more, causing run off and they look like they are over watered because the water is sitting in there not being taken up.
 
Week4Bytch

Week4Bytch

The Cannabis Karen (I'm a Bytch)
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store bought worm is a joke
This is what I get from Home Depot, seems legit.
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And I agree the pot size can/will play a huge part in a grow when it comes to organic, the bigger the pot the bigger the battery. I started with 5 gallon pots and slowly gone up to 10 and 15 gallon pots, they do get heavy. I forgot what the OP said his pot sizes are. Think he said 7? That's not to bad, compared to a 3 gallon pot. Some would say 15 is the minimum for organic grows to flourish. I've seen a few growers dig their potted cuttings/seedlings not so deep when transplanting to their final pots. They're sticking up an inch or two above the soil line. They claim this helps with areas that rain a lot (outdoor growing) so I can only imagine what it could do for indoor growers, I pop my seeds in them sponge seed starter pods and drop them in soil with a little lift above the soil line. , it's been working out.
2023 01 06 165838
 
F

fuzybuds

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Same problem here.im a green horn as green as it gets.same water run off ph.went in at 6 came out at same as yours
 
F

fuzybuds

70
18
This is what I get from Home Depot, seems legit. View attachment 1317420
And I agree the pot size can/will play a huge part in a grow when it comes to organic, the bigger the pot the bigger the battery. I started with 5 gallon pots and slowly gone up to 10 and 15 gallon pots, they do get heavy. I forgot what the OP said his pot sizes are. Think he said 7? That's not to bad, compared to a 3 gallon pot. Some would say 15 is the minimum for organic grows to flourish. I've seen a few growers dig their potted cuttings/seedlings not so deep when transplanting to their final pots. They're sticking up an inch or two above the soil line. They claim this helps with areas that rain a lot (outdoor growing) so I can only imagine what it could do for indoor growers, I pop my seeds in them sponge seed starter pods and drop them in soil with a little lift above the soil line. , it's been working out.
View attachment 1317421
Looks like some gold leaf starts there in background.
 
F

fuzybuds

70
18
Looks like some gold leaf starts there in background.
Also I tried the foxfarm ocean forest soil .just tried it in a few pots ,hope it does well.has alot of the bat crap and fish stuff worm casting and what not.
Anyone ever use it?
I'm a green horn and doin some experiments ro see what's what.
 
Week4Bytch

Week4Bytch

The Cannabis Karen (I'm a Bytch)
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Also I tried the foxfarm ocean forest soil .just tried it in a few pots ,hope it does well.has alot of the bat crap and fish stuff worm casting and what not.
Anyone ever use it?
I'm a green horn and doin some experiments ro see what's what.
It runs a little hot so I mix it 50/50 with Happy Frog. You could almost do a full run just with that soil, it's very rich.
 
Week4Bytch

Week4Bytch

The Cannabis Karen (I'm a Bytch)
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Looks like some gold leaf starts there in background.
White Widow, and couple Kush strains. I'm on 4 different forums right now..lol, gonna have to slow down and read this one from the beginning before I reply again.
 
Week4Bytch

Week4Bytch

The Cannabis Karen (I'm a Bytch)
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You know whats funny is the OP never came back.. LMFAO 🤣 Zen seeker, did you ever get the pH down to respectful levels? Where you at with the soi
@Week4Bytch
Soil grow keeping organic where I can.

Update 3:

Clones still look great no leaf issues. Topped each of their pots with mixed soil and gave a light mist followed with worm cast foliar spray. Original watering should last all week.
View attachment 1316837


Main plant seems about the same but slower growth. New leaves still seem lighter and I noticed in two places that if I lifted a leaf off a leaf the bottom leaf was darker where covered.
View attachment 1316842View attachment 1316843


This is a 25’ish liter soft pot filled with 20L soil mix, worm castings & Sunshine 4.

About 1 cm of mixed top soil added after flush. Soil was a hair over 6PH. No water added since flush on Dec 31.

Soil is moist at 3” deep. Pot still has weight. Trying not to spray or foliar her.
View attachment 1316848View attachment 1316849


So going forward I’m still not 100% sure what set her off. Onset of lockout, to close to light, nute & ph issue? I think a little bit of leaf spot burns came from the lights coming on after a foliar spray done just before the flush. As it only seems to be some leaves near the top. Not latest growth. Some claw from all the water and maybe a little wind burn.
View attachment 1316850View attachment 1316851View attachment 1316852


Friday I think I can water with just ph adjusted water on the topped soil. After that I was going to see if I can find the ingredients local at my stores to make “The Recipe”. I can find Grotek Gro-Silic for $100 but no idea where I can get Mr Fulvic. I don’t internet shop.

I could just go back to Fox Farm nutes and see if that helps, half strength, but I’d like to do better.

Money went into hardware this grow so cash is tight but I have the following on had;

Sunshine soil
Gaia worm castings
Gaia green sand
Jobes organic 4-4-4 small pellets
Fox farm grow big
Fox farm tiger bloom
GH PH Up
GH PH Down phosphoric acid
Bottled water - typical grocery store
24+ Hour old tap water PH usually 7-7.4

Anything else I’ll need to run out and get.

Glass digital PH meter arrives in mid February. No ppm meter either.

Next step suggestion?

If this is all you have, go with the Jobes 4-4-4 (tablespoon per pot) and Worm castings only (cover the pellets with the worm castings), and then water with (1 tablespoon per gallon of water) of epsom salts once a week. Get that waters pH to 6.5-6.8 Good luck man and sorry for taking so long to read that .
 
Zen_Seeker

Zen_Seeker

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@ezenzyme

Thanks for the feedback. Going to need to read it over once or twice and answer in a reply. For the most part I have done as you suggested in the past & only just starting to use more organic as I can.

Only 1cm or 1/3” of soil with a bit of 4-4-4, worm castings, and Gaia green sand mixed in was added. After flush. Every watering that soil mound at the stem is gone. I put it back when I clean or work the top soil. Checked just in case and no soft spots or discolouration.

I normally water as needed using pot weight, finger & meter together. At this size it’s normally about 3L water every two days. Waited 5 days after flush before watering again this morning.

First watering today was about 8L+ with PH6.3’ish. I gave up on organic for now and added Foxfarm Grow Big & Pro Cal.

Plants still growing, but slower I think. Yellow stripes still seem to be happening with some small brown/burn marks on some leaves. Light was reduced to 50% since yesterday.

I’ll reply and quote you in the next post.

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