Manganese deficiency? Phosphorus? Mites? Fungus? I'm desperate!

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Kidbuu

Kidbuu

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Hi everyone! I'm new around here.

Over the past few days I've been having some trouble with my little plants. I have three, they're about 6 weeks old and one of them already showed being a girl.
It is an outdoors grow, and here we're like halfway through autumn but there hasn't been any really cold days yet.

PROBLEM: First they developed dark spots on new growth which then appeared on older leaves too. Then the new growths got an extreme chlorosis starting from the opposite end of leaf tip. (see pic)
Also, the young leaves started clawing/curling upwards, and one of them developed some more serious clawing on bigger leaves. Also I don't notice the nice weed smell anymore, in fact if I get really close it doesn't smell very well which makes me think it could be some fungus.

The diagnostic that visually matches best is manganese deficiency because of the spots and chlorosis. I can't really buy any nutrient solution, that's why I'm trying to water them with rain water in case it's a ph problem. But I guess it could also be phosphorus since they're trying to show their sex. But the clawing and smell makes me think it could be some bug or fungus.
You might also think it's iron deficiency but I don't think so because I already tried applying some iron which worked in the past but nothing changed.

I just hope you guys can help me! If you need any other info I'll be happy to provide

Questions from the sticky:

1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Seeds.
2. How old are your plants? 6 weeks
3. How tall are your plants? about 20cm
4. What size containers are they planted in? about 9 litres
5. What is your soil mix? it's a fertile soil (has some perlite, ashes and stuff) + earthworm humus + more perlite + a bit of coffee and chamomille
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use? I water with rain water when the soil is dry enough, I generally see if the top inch is dry or see some symptoms in the plant
7. What is the pH of your water? I don't know, but since it's rain water I'm positive it's ok
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio? I don't have that information
9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? Nope
14. What is the pH of the soil? I don't know :( but it should be ok because I had a sulfur deficiency in the past for using tape water which has a lot of chlorine, and started using proper water
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? Yes, I've always had trips but I check them all the time and remove them if I find any
16. How much experience do you have growing? This is my first time!
 
Manganese deficiency phosphorus mites fungus im desperate
Manganese deficiency phosphorus mites fungus im desperate 2
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mancorn

mancorn

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You say you're half way through Autumn? You're going to have to wait until the Spring to plant. Cannabis is a short day plant, and will flower when the days are short. How long are your days. (Probably 24 hours. 😀! So how many hours of sun are you getting?) I have seen a plant that overwintered, but in was in a costal region in California. It did grow (huge), but it was super funky. I sure you're going to have a really tough go of it, and probably end up with a ton of rot and mildew if it even stays alive.
 
Kidbuu

Kidbuu

38
8
You say you're half way through Autumn? You're going to have to wait until the Spring to plant. Cannabis is a short day plant, and will flower when the days are short. How long are your days. (Probably 24 hours. 😀! So how many hours of sun are you getting?) I have seen a plant that overwintered, but in was in a costal region in California. It did grow (huge), but it was super funky. I sure you're going to have a really tough go of it, and probably end up with a ton of rot and mildew if it even stays alive.
Thanks for your reply!
Are you sure it's rot? Roots are looking great to me (see pic, by the way yes, the pots are see-through but I cover them)
Days are getting shorter actually, they are 11 hours now. And for the winter I've built a little greenhouse to protect them.
I know it's not usual to plant in winter but I'm trying my best!
I still find your opinion valid though, it has rot characteristics.
 
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BurnzYzBudZz

BurnzYzBudZz

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Thanks for your reply!
Are you sure it's rot? Roots are looking great to me (see pic, by the way yes, the pots are see-through but I cover them)
Days are getting shorter actually, they are 11 hours now. And for the winter I've built a little greenhouse to protect them.
I know it's not usual to plant in winter but I'm trying my best!
I still find your opinion valid though, it has rot characteristics.
You may have mites of some sort. I had a russet mite issue and it cause my new growth to look almost crispy and bubbly looking fan leaves. I didn’t see anything until I put a leaf under a 40x microscope and I saw larva and droppings. One could have Easily mistaken it for light burn. You will definitely need some supplemental lighting in the green house, needing 15hr at least to veg them. Good luck and happy grows.
 
mancorn

mancorn

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Sorry I wasn't saying you currently have rot, rather you're almost bound to when winter sets in. Don't want to rain on your parade, just think you're in for a tough time.

It's kind of hard to give too much advice without knowing if you have a pH issue. The only nutrient problem I can think of is a Phosphorus deficiency (which can turn the leaves black). If you have a low pH it can get locked out. But you'll really be chasing your tail at this point. I recommend trying to source a balanced fertilizer as you have a mix of fairly unconvential additives (with your coffee and tea). Not sure from your picture, but looks like you might have some wood chips in your pot? If so you'll want to remove them as they can lock up nutrients and starve your plant and is going to trap moisture as you cool down.

Basically you either have a fungas (you'll need something like neem), mites (neem will help to slow then down, but won't kill em, although the cold might!) or a nutrient problem. Think that covers just about all cannabis problems. 😀 The neem doesn't really have a down side, so you can try it, and try a basic fertilizer. Even a cheap balanced fertilizer like a 10-10-10 will insure your plant has all the nutrients it needs. No need for huge NPK numbers, (less is more).
 
Growing_Garbage

Growing_Garbage

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that is some type of root issue. Could be simple damage like a transplant ripped a main root, or the roots are too cold/rotting, or phosphorus deficiencies. That burned center of the leaf turning black is the indicator here of major phosphorus lock out, or root damage can show like that too. I have seen this. Once from keeping plants on cold concrete floor until they got root rot, and again with a ripped fabric pot that only got half the root ball transplanted.

If you didn't drop it or mess up the roots psychically, then deficiency, or burn. Deficiencies from temps not staying over 62 at all times,(ie phosphorus). Burns can be from soil amendments. Not sure what you mean by fertile soil. You can burn root tips off with unfinished composting matter in the pots. You can get deficiencies and lock out even from soil that has too much bark in it too(high PH). Just some ideas, been here plenty of times.

So I would be getting some ph'ed or distilled water and possibly a light balanced feed mix and giving it a flush to like 50% runoff and letting it dry almost to the droop before watering again. See how the new growth looks. Def needs a reset and a dry out in summary. Good luck and patience man. quarentinaritahahha
 
Growing_Garbage

Growing_Garbage

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43
I really don't think you have mites though so thats good. Had plenty of kinds of those. Good advice from mancorn though get some neem, and get in the habit of using neem regularly up till flower and it'll keep ya safe.
 
Kidbuu

Kidbuu

38
8
You may have mites of some sort. I had a russet mite issue and it cause my new growth to look almost crispy and bubbly looking fan leaves. I didn’t see anything until I put a leaf under a 40x microscope and I saw larva and droppings. One could have Easily mistaken it for light burn. You will definitely need some supplemental lighting in the green house, needing 15hr at least to veg them. Good luck and happy grows.
I don't have a microscope but I took a good look at them and I found all leaves have tiny white dots that could be larva!!
What do you think? This is the same pic I showed before:
Larv

Guess I should try some neem to be safe.

Sorry I wasn't saying you currently have rot, rather you're almost bound to when winter sets in. Don't want to rain on your parade, just think you're in for a tough time.

It's kind of hard to give too much advice without knowing if you have a pH issue.....
I guess you're right but I'll have to see how far I can go. I have dry leaves on top of the soil because of a recommendation but I always had doubts about it and now that you say that I'll remove them. I'll see if I can get some neem! :)

that is some type of root issue. Could be simple damage like a transplant ripped a main root, or the roots are too cold/rotting, or phosphorus deficiencies. That burned center of the leaf turning black is the indicator here of major phosphorus lock out, or root damage can show like that too. I have seen this.....
I did the transplant about 3 weeks ago and they've never showed any signs of stress or slowed growth, in fact they got bigger quite quickly, so I'm guessing it all went right.
I guess I'll have to try adding phosphorus! nothing to lose
By the way, I have a doubt about flushing. Do you reuse the flushed water in some way?

Thank you so much guys, you're all really helpful and friendly people
Hope I can get past this! :)
 
BurnzYzBudZz

BurnzYzBudZz

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Usually the larva are on the underside of the leaves. That’s where I found mine at. But I was observing the white dots yesterday during your initial post. I May be wrong, but I think thrips are small and white. Hope you get to the bottom of your issue. Happy grows.
Burnz
 
Madbud

Madbud

3,906
263
Hi everyone! I'm new around here.

Over the past few days I've been having some trouble with my little plants. I have three, they're about 6 weeks old and one of them already showed being a girl.
It is an outdoors grow, and here we're like halfway through autumn but there hasn't been any really cold days yet.

PROBLEM: First they developed dark spots on new growth which then appeared on older leaves too. Then the new growths got an extreme chlorosis starting from the opposite end of leaf tip. (see pic)
Also, the young leaves started clawing/curling upwards, and one of them developed some more serious clawing on bigger leaves. Also I don't notice the nice weed smell anymore, in fact if I get really close it doesn't smell very well which makes me think it could be some fungus.

The diagnostic that visually matches best is manganese deficiency because of the spots and chlorosis. I can't really buy any nutrient solution, that's why I'm trying to water them with rain water in case it's a ph problem. But I guess it could also be phosphorus since they're trying to show their sex. But the clawing and smell makes me think it could be some bug or fungus.
You might also think it's iron deficiency but I don't think so because I already tried applying some iron which worked in the past but nothing changed.

I just hope you guys can help me! If you need any other info I'll be happy to provide

Questions from the sticky:

1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Seeds.
2. How old are your plants? 6 weeks
3. How tall are your plants? about 20cm
4. What size containers are they planted in? about 9 litres
5. What is your soil mix? it's a fertile soil (has some perlite, ashes and stuff) + earthworm humus + more perlite + a bit of coffee and chamomille
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use? I water with rain water when the soil is dry enough, I generally see if the top inch is dry or see some symptoms in the plant
7. What is the pH of your water? I don't know, but since it's rain water I'm positive it's ok
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio? I don't have that information
9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? Nope
14. What is the pH of the soil? I don't know :( but it should be ok because I had a sulfur deficiency in the past for using tape water which has a lot of chlorine, and started using proper water
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? Yes, I've always had trips but I check them all the time and remove them if I find any
16. How much experience do you have growing? This is my first time!
I’m taking a guess but try feeding some calcium. If not available you can get some from a piece of drywall, thats calcium sulfate. It looks like all kinds of deficiencies, without calcium the plant can’t absorb magnesium, phosphorous or potassium. Mix it with water.
 
Beachwalker

Beachwalker

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313
Screenshot 20200429 112003 Chrome


Just saw the same thing earlier this week, can't recall if it was iron or sulfur? Pretty sure it was one of those, search it out, see which one it looks like, follow the link and get it treated &/or corrected, good luck!
 
Growing_Garbage

Growing_Garbage

115
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Those white dots, are they larva that you can see move, or are they bite scars from under the leaves? figured that was the thrips you spoke of.
How are those temps though? and no i wouldn't reuse the water? just rinse it till water comes out quite a bit, then once more with food in the water. That extra water can go in house plants I suppose. I would put it outside personally. Easy test if you have rot if you don't like your houseplants.
 
Kidbuu

Kidbuu

38
8
Usually the larva are on the underside of the leaves. That’s where I found mine at. But I was observing the white dots yesterday during your initial post. I May be wrong, but I think thrips are small and white. Hope you get to the bottom of your issue. Happy grows.
Burnz
Oh ok, the underside looks ok. They aren't thrips. Thrips are black with 1 or 2 white/yellow spots, and bigger than those dots. But I don't really know how a thrip egg looks so it is a possibility that they are unhatched thrips.

I’m taking a guess but try feeding some calcium. If not available you can get some from a piece of drywall, thats calcium sulfate. It looks like all kinds of deficiencies, without calcium the plant can’t absorb magnesium, phosphorous or potassium. Mix it with water.
Thanks for the drywall tip! I applied a bit just in case.

Just saw the same thing earlier this week, can't recall if it was iron or sulfur? Pretty sure it was one of those, search it out, see which one it looks like, follow the link and get it treated &/or corrected, good luck!
Couldn't find it but I've had iron and sulfur deficiencies in the past which I successfully solved and they didn't look like these. Thanks anyways!

Those white dots, are they larva that you can see move, or are they bite scars from under the leaves? figured that was the thrips you spoke of.
How are those temps though? and no i wouldn't reuse the water? just rinse it till water comes out quite a bit, then once more with food in the water. That extra water can go in house plants I suppose. I would put it outside personally. Easy test if you have rot if you don't like your houseplants.
They are on the upper side of the leaves and don't move, I've tried poking them and no movement. But they could be thrip eggs since I don't know how those look.
The temps were nice when the problem started, but the day I noticed this I had to take them inside because of a big storm. Now they're outside again, it's cold now so I hope that helps in case it's mites, but now I'm more convinced it's phosphorus. It's just that sometimes symptoms don't look exactly like the excess/deficiency charts out there so it's kinda tricky.
Thanks for the data!

It's looking a lot more like phosphorus deficiency by now so I applied that and potassium. I hope they get better!
I'll update this post in case I see any improvements so that anybody having the same problem knows the solution.

Thanks guys!
 
Beachwalker

Beachwalker

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Oh ok, the underside looks ok. They aren't thrips. Thrips are black with 1 or 2 white/yellow spots, and bigger than those dots. But I don't really know how a thrip egg looks so it is a possibility that they are unhatched thrips.


Thanks for the drywall tip! I applied a bit just in case.


Couldn't find it but I've had iron and sulfur deficiencies in the past which I successfully solved and they didn't look like these. Thanks anyways!


They are on the upper side of the leaves and don't move, I've tried poking them and no movement. But they could be thrip eggs since I don't know how those look.
The temps were nice when the problem started, but the day I noticed this I had to take them inside because of a big storm. Now they're outside again, it's cold now so I hope that helps in case it's mites, but now I'm more convinced it's phosphorus. It's just that sometimes symptoms don't look exactly like the excess/deficiency charts out there so it's kinda tricky.
Thanks for the data!

It's looking a lot more like phosphorus deficiency by now so I applied that and potassium. I hope they get better!
I'll update this post in case I see any improvements so that anybody having the same problem knows the solution.

Thanks guys!
I disagree, but regardless I hope you solve it quickly!

Screenshot 20200430 084718 Google
Screenshot 20200430 084848 Google

Screenshot 20200430 085019 Chrome
 
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Growing_Garbage

Growing_Garbage

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they're back outside and its cold, well we have the answer. You know temperature also effects what the roots can uptake. Your going to lockout that phosphorus and then you've added more that it can't use. It gets the nutes all outta wack feeding when its cold, they'll take up a bunch of some leaving excess and locking out others.

If you could get the roots/soil temps up over 60's all the time you would really benefit. If you're set on a winter run make her a plastic tent frame or something that helps trap the sun heat to put over it for the last part of the day and overnight.
 
Growing_Garbage

Growing_Garbage

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and make sure the pots don't sit on like a concrete pad, you want to keep it up off the ground on a piece of wood or foam if you're not already. Concrete really sucks the heat out.
 
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Kidbuu

Kidbuu

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I disagree, but regardless I hope you solve it quickly!
It could also be a mix of different deficiencies so I'll add just a bit of iron to be sure
they're back outside and its cold, well we have the answer. You know temperature also effects what the roots can uptake. Your going to lockout that phosphorus and then you've added more that it can't use. It gets the nutes all outta wack feeding when its cold, they'll take up a bunch of some leaving excess and locking out others.

If you could get the roots/soil temps up over 60's all the time you would really benefit. If you're set on a winter run make her a plastic tent frame or something that helps trap the sun heat to put over it for the last part of the day and overnight.
The only time they're really cold is at night and a few day hours at the morning. I'm in a 4th floor facing the sun the whole day and the whole year, so they get quite a nice amount of heat. I'll start using the greenhouse when it starts getting seriously cold throughout the whole day.
and make sure the pots don't sit on like a concrete pad, you want to keep it up off the ground on a piece of wood or foam if you're not already. Concrete really sucks the heat out.
Great tip! Never thought of that, I've just changed that.

UPDATE: They look like they're trying to get back on their feet!! It looks like the chlorosis is going away since leaves are getting fresher and not so super yellow. The problem is that by the time I added the phosphorus the plants had some serious burns. What should I do with the burnt leaves? They're way too many, it's so sad, even the only little pistils they had got burnt.
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Kidbuu

Kidbuu

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Oh and by the way, it appears the white dots were thrip eggs because they had a lot of new thrips on them when I looked at them today, I removed them right away
 
Growing_Garbage

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Nice to see some new growth coming in there! keep it up.
Don't worry about the dead leaves, you'll have plenty more soon and can just pick those if you don't want to look at em.
 
Beachwalker

Beachwalker

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Not phosphorus deficiency, suggest looking at a picture of what a phosphorus deficiency looks like before you add anymore

IMO you'd be better to start another seed because that plants not going to do what you want it to even if you can get it back to health, it's too stunted; you'd be caught up or ahead of where you are now with a new seed in about 4 - 6 weeks, good luck
 
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