Measuring EC in Bio Nutes

[John Smith Esq.]

Hey to all you farmers out there!

heres a silly question for ya, ill be switching to full Bio nutes in my next grow and im just wondering as they dont have any salts that alter the EC how do you go about measuring its strenght once its diluted in water??

bit stumped on this one..i dont even think a PPM meter would work either would it?

im sure there has to be a thread somewhere for this but i couldnt find it so appologies if im regurgitating.

Peace.

 

[dayday]

I have just started using bio nutes and i was thinking this aswell..all I've come up with is just put your nutes to RO water make sure the ph is right and off you go....but i will be watching this thread to see if anybody comes along and says different.....

day

 

[true grit]

Maybe Im a tard, but I use full organic nutes and my PPM is constant and measurable. I can add one thing at a time and tell ya how much it raises. I sit and feed at 600-700 everyday. My low feeding are at about 450-500 and this is with RO.

 

[dayday]

Thanks for your input true grit I will give that a try...ive only just repoted the plants in Allmix soil and watered them with RO water at PH6.5

thxs dayday

 

[John Smith Esq.]

appreciated True grit - thats surprising, i though PPM meters still measured the EC of a solution but they convert the reading into PPM??

well only one way to find out i guess! thanks again for the input

 

[forknowledge]

Ive been using all biobizz nutes & soils for the past 2 years & all I can say is following the Biobizz feed schedule as a starting point then adjust according to how your plants react.

 

[devious d]

hi all just went from hydro to bio myself using my trunchon to mix my canna bio noticed it was regeristing ? was just using ml per litre and making sure it was on the weak side so not to over fertilize but going to try ec or ppm now see if between measuring and the truncheon there the same will let you know. the last crop was purely measured bio nutes great results ,still looking for a bio pk13/14 and big bud trying bio boost bio heaven and bio bizz top any ideas appreciated.

 

[yamama]

i use the bio canna line an was always told not to bother phing or using the trunchon on it as it will never give an accurate reading, i remember reading something along these lines on the biocanna site also.
I only ph an ec the flush water

 

[Seamaiden]

appreciated True grit - thats surprising, i though PPM meters still measured the EC of a solution but they convert the reading into PPM??

well only one way to find out i guess! thanks again for the input

I have understood EC to be a more accurate measure of nutrient concentration than ppm, and that it was devised in order to be a better or more accurate measure.

I need to get me one o' those meters. TDS/ppm/EC, but I don't seem to be able to find many meters that measure those three parameters. They seem to be pH/EC/TDS. Hm.

Why would there be a functional difference between chemical salts and 'naturally sourced' nutrients in this context?

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I have understood EC to be a more accurate measure of nutrient concentration than ppm, and that it was devised in order to be a better or more accurate measure.

I need to get me one o' those meters. TDS/ppm/EC, but I don't seem to be able to find many meters that measure those three parameters. They seem to be pH/EC/TDS. Hm.

Why would there be a functional difference between chemical salts and 'naturally sourced' nutrients in this context?

conductivity

 

[SkyHi]

^^^ i dont think truely organic nutes have measurable conductivity....which why im curious as to why TG gets a reading...what nutes do you use....

 

[true grit]

Everything from Age Old (which is NOP certified), Roots Organic, General Organics and all of them give me a PPM reading that is steady, consistent, and hopefully fairly accurate. Results are saying so.... I start by checking PPM of my RO water which is 5-8ppm and build on top of that.

Even when running FF which is not organic, I would follow a similar feeding ml/g regimen and PPM were within 150-200ppm of what I feed now.

I understand in theory, but why would i be able to consistently pull the same PPM with identical measurements.... i mean it could read off, but at least its consistently off. lol.

 

[Seamaiden]

In trying to sort your answer, I found this neat little page. And another on making your own meter on a budget.

Still not sure what the functional differences are one would be looking for, but this may help.


Ok, after all of this I think I get what you're saying. It seems that one would measure EC and TDS/ppm (even though TDS is a conversion of EC?). Or have I got that all wrong in the context of what the OP is asking?

 

[true grit]

I have an EC meter as well, but I don't do hydro, don't need it uber specific and find the PPM meter to be specific enough for me to monitor ppm changes when I adjust my nutes.

 

[SkyHi]

thats a neat page seamaiden thanks, So if i were to make a tea with just batguano and purified water ....it would read on my TDS meter?

I guess what im saying is that i always thought organics would not read on a TDS, Do they add elements to make it read.

JK were you at get your botanist in here, please lol

 

[John Smith Esq.]

I guess what im saying is that i always thought organics would not read on a TDS, Do they add elements to make it read.

thats exactly what i was thinking but if TrueGrit gets a reading from his then Bio nutes must have an EC reading albeit lower than salt based nutes at the same concentration....is this a safe conclusion to form guys n gals?

actually sod it, little late now but tomorrow im gonna make a batch up and measure the EC, im using cannas bio, ill let you all now if i get a reading or not for a comparative.

 

[dayday]

Got this from another site about organics and ec/ppm

"These are fertilisers made from plant animal and ground minerals ie they are mainly suspended solids, they are not extracted chemical salts although there will be some. EC/TDS meters measure dissolved salts in liquid so no you cant really use meters."

That might be why TG gets ec/pmm readings....just my 2cent

dayday

 

[Seamaiden]

But that can't be entirely true, and I have a good example in my dolomitic lime experiment where I was able to show (using a titration test kit made for aquariums) that (in a more acidic environment, can't do this with very hard, unfiltered water) even the prilled stuff will not only dissolve almost immediately, but brings the water hardness up from a reading of 0KH/GH to a full KH 10d; GH 9d (KH = German hardness = rough measure of Ca/Mg carbonates, GH = general hardness measuring all total minerals). These kits would not be able to measure the mineral content if it were not dissolved into the water column.

thats a neat page seamaiden thanks, So if i were to make a tea with just batguano and purified water ....it would read on my TDS meter?

I guess what im saying is that i always thought organics would not read on a TDS, Do they add elements to make it read.

JK were you at get your botanist in here, please lol

And I never gave it a thought until I started trying my hand at coco and hempy. Now I have to learn more stuffs, especially with regard to the minerals calcium, magnesium and potassium.

It must have as much to do with the compound and its solubility as anything else. I'm thinking of two things that are always in my organic arsenal--hydrolyzed fish emulsion and kelp extracts. The fish emulsion never dissolves, ever, but the extract is highly soluble. How would an EC/TDS/ppm meter measure these substances if they're not truly dissolved into the water? It doesn't seem that it could measure the hydrolyzed fish emulsion, but it should be able to measure the kelp extract.

But then I started thinking about the teas I like to use (I've stopped buying specific guanos, I love Dr. Earth and they make it so easy and include propagules of microbes I want). If it colors the water and a simple mechanical filter won't remove that, then it's got to be dissolved into the water, and that must mean that it's got to be measurable somehow, right?

Since I haven't got a meter yet, I can't sort it out factually.

 

[true grit]

Got this from another site about organics and ec/ppm

"These are fertilisers made from plant animal and ground minerals ie they are mainly suspended solids, they are not extracted chemical salts although there will be some. EC/TDS meters measure dissolved salts in liquid so no you cant really use meters."

That might be why TG gets ec/pmm readings....just my 2cent

dayday

Hate to say but I don't think so. I feed extremely light, 600-700 ppm sounds pretty damn close. If perhaps I was feeding at their full strength feed it would close to what most are feeding in flower- closer to 1250-1500ppm. But i feed at about 1/3-1/2 strength and hit em everyday almost. I will mix up some roots organic mix at full strength in a 1g and see if pulls a high ppm like it should. If its over 1k should be pretty damn close. I'll check it out in a bit and post back!!

 

[SkyHi]

Thats the thing im wondering: It sound like the products that gritty is getting readings from are pre-bottled nutes. They may add some type of charged molecule to get a reading? That what the TDS reads electical conductivity. I believe the ions on the salts what makes it read dissolved solids.

Some one take some straight non pre-bottled nutes (ie. guano tea) and try and get a reading. Im very curious