Mikedin’s Living Soil Adventure and Living Soil discussion topic

[Week4Bytch]

You've been to my post recently, you saw I can grow very big tight buds even from bag seeds. It helps a lot that I plant a lot of Runtz which is highly productive, and even more productive if you make it foxtail early, the buds will swell like crazy and the foxtails will mature at the same time as the bud, a little trick with Runtz, if she is not bitching keep those lights as close as possible hahaha.

Agree, those Runtz do swell up with heavy buds. The one I grew out had a weird fabric softener terp.

 

[Eledin]

But Mike mentioned it already, it's really at the rhizosphere where it counts. So keep them roots as healthy as you can. How? I have no idea... Fake it till you make it....

I know, what Im saying is that mycorrizae and bacteria break down the organic matter in the exact same compounds that many salt ferts use. At the end, when it breaks down, potassium is potassium, doesnt matter if it was shited from a fungus or you added it directly.

 

[Eledin]

Okay let me explain myself further. When you check a nutrient uptake according to PH in soil, the dont list "potassium sulfate", they list potassium, iron, etc... doesnt matter if its chelated or not, the PH will affect the absorption rate, chelated minerals are easier to absorb because theyre smaller but they are still absorved better at a ph of 6,2-6,5.
The microorganisms release said chemicals but they dont force feed your plant, they just shit in your roots hahaha PH still plays a role in nutrient absorption even if its not as crucial as with salt based.

 

[Week4Bytch]

I know, what Im saying is that mycorrizae and bacteria break down the organic matter in the exact same compounds that many salt ferts use. At the end, when it breaks down, potassium is potassium, doesnt matter if it was shited from a fungus or you added it directly.

Yes and no, salt fert is a direct feed, organic fert, in a healthy soil is given to the plant when it's asking for it. We know there's other variables involved that can change that, but in a perfect scenario, that's how it is. Set it and forget it.

 

[Eledin]

Yes and no, salt fert is a direct feed, organic fert, in a healthy soil is given to the plant when it's asking for it. We know there's other variables involved that can change that, but in a perfect scenario, that's how it is. Set it and forget it.

You can definetely burn your plants with organic ammendments, its just harder. With salt based its easier because as you said, they dont have to be processed by the microorganisms to become available to the plant. Organic doesnt magically release what your plant wants, you have to calibrate in a different way than with salt based but still have to calibrate, its just that you have buffers and slower nute intake which I like to speed up with lower PH. I use organic liquid nutrient too, youre probably familiar with Iguana Juice, it has phosphoric acid to make the nutrients available sooner to the plant, but you still need to use the microorganisms in the organic chart.
A full dose of Iguana Juice will give you a PH of around 6,5. Sometimes even lower if its RO water so you might need a PH up or some ancient earth. I use cheaper alternatives.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Okay let me explain myself further. When you check a nutrient uptake according to PH in soil, the dont list "potassium sulfate", they list potassium, iron, etc... doesnt matter if its chelated or not, the PH will affect the absorption rate, chelated minerals are easier to absorb because theyre smaller but they are still absorved better at a ph of 6,2-6,5.
The microorganisms release said chemicals but they dont force feed your plant, they just shit in your roots hahaha PH still plays a role in nutrient absorption even if its not as crucial as with salt based.

I get ya, the charts are different between the two, salt based being in the lower range. I think it's Phosphorus uptake that peaks at those 6.2-6.5... (for organic) that's why I like it there too, I really don't try to mess with the soil much until or if, it sneaks past 7 or goes under 6. Most of the time it's on point. Been lucky so far.

 

[Eledin]

I get ya, the charts are different between the two, salt based being in the lower range. I think it's Phosphorus uptake that peaks at those 6.2-6.5... (for organic) that's why I like it there too, I really don't try to mess with the soil much until or if, it sneaks past 7 or goes under 6. Most of the time it's on point. Been lucky so far.

Phosphorus is fine, I just used potassium as an example too since its also fine at 7ph or 6,2ph. Its micronutrients like iron, manganese, cobalt, copper, etc... that benefit the most from a lower PH than 7. You will say well, then its not that important, but if you wanna fed more NPK theyre gonna need more micronutrients and faster, right? I dont know, thats how I see it at least. I might be PHing my water for nothing but to me it makes sense

 

[Eledin]

I should also mention, and I wont write more cause its not my post and Mikedin has been quiet which makes me think he is bored or doesnt agree, that I use liquid organic nutrients not only ammendments. Liquid organic ferts are absorved quicker than ammendments because I have burnt my plants with one single watering in the past so my experience might not apply to people who only use ammendments.

 

[Mikedin]

Also perhaps the PH changes depending on the part of the plant, we can meassure the ph of the water and the soil but not the ph changes inside the plant.

Correct, plus the rhizosphere acts as a nutritional and PH buffer

 

[Week4Bytch]

Phosphorus is fine, I just used potassium as an example too since its also fine at 7ph or 6,2ph. Its micronutrients like iron, manganese, cobalt, copper, etc... that benefit the most from a lower PH than 7. You will say well, then its not that important, but if you wanna fed more NPK theyre gonna need more micronutrients and faster, right? I dont know, thats how I see it at least. I might be PHing my water for nothing but to me it makes sense

Oh no .. don't fix the pH with the water .. fix it within the soil. If your growing organic then it's the soils pH that has to be on point. Unless your growing in smaller pots then yeah maybe that's your only option, but with the bigger pots if your soils pH is on point, water pH isn't gonna matter. But .... Fuck I'm gonna hate bringing this up .. I have to get ready for bed .. but we can table this for later ... And the unless is, if you have hard tap water ....fuk man, that will wreck havoc to your soil. Alright, have to bail guys. Catch y'as on the rebound.

 

[Eledin]

Oh no .. don't fix the pH with the water .. fix it within the soil. If your growing organic then it's the soils pH that has to be on point. Unless your growing in smaller pots then yeah maybe that's your only option, but with the bigger pots if your soils pH is on point, water pH isn't gonna matter. But .... Fuck I'm gonna hate bringing this up .. I have to get ready for bed .. but we can table this for later ... And the unless is, if you have hard tap water ....fuk man, that will wreck havoc to your soil. Alright, have to bail guys. Catch y'as on the rebound.

The PH of my soil is already fixed, what I look when I PH water is to not alterate it rest well! And yes I do use tap water, with RO water you have no problems because its always at 6,5ph assuming nothing is contaminating it.

 

[Mikedin]

Also perhaps the PH changes depending on the part of the plant, we can meassure the ph of the water and the soil but not the ph changes inside the plant.

The rhizosphere is the narrow region of soil directly influenced by root secretions and associated soil microorganisms. It plays a critical role in living soil ecosystems, supporting plant health and soil fertility. Here’s an overview of its functions:



Key Functions of the Rhizosphere in Living Soil
1.


Nutrient Cycling and Availability

• Microbial activity in the rhizosphere accelerates the breakdown of organic matter.
• Converts nutrients into forms that plants can absorb (e.g., nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium).
• Mycorrhizal fungi extend root systems and enhance nutrient uptake.

2.


Plant-Microbe Interactions

• Roots exude sugars, amino acids, and organic acids, which feed beneficial microbes.
• In return, microbes provide:
  • Disease resistance
  • Growth-promoting hormones (like auxins and gibberellins)
  • Enhanced nutrient uptake

3.


Disease Suppression

• A diverse and active microbial community in the rhizosphere outcompetes pathogens.
• Some microbes produce antibiotics or trigger plant immune responses (induced systemic resistance).

4.


Soil Structure Improvement

• Microbial byproducts (e.g., glomalin from mycorrhizae) help form stable soil aggregates.
• This improves aeration, water retention, and root penetration.

5.


Carbon Cycling

• The rhizosphere is a hotspot for carbon exchange, as plants release carbon-rich compounds.
• Helps in sequestering carbon in soil and fuels the soil food web

6.


Signaling and Communication

• Roots and microbes exchange chemical signals to regulate symbiotic relationships.
• Important in plant stress responses (e.g., drought, salinity).

Summary


The rhizosphere acts as a living interface between plant roots and soil, managing the flow of energy and nutrients while supporting plant health through complex biological interactions. Its vitality is a cornerstone of regenerative agriculture, organic farming, and sustainable land management

 

[Mikedin]

Yes, the rhizosphere can significantly alter pH, and this is a key part of how plants interact with their soil environment.






How the Rhizosphere Alters Soil pH

1.


Root Exudates

• Roots release organic acids (e.g., citric, malic, oxalic acids), which can lower pH in the rhizosphere.
• This helps solubilize nutrients like phosphorus and iron that are otherwise unavailable at higher pH

2.


Ion Exchange and Uptake

• When plants take up more cations (like NH₄⁺, K⁺, Ca²⁺), they release H⁺ ions into the soil → acidifies the rhizosphere.
• When plants take up more anions (like NO₃⁻), they release OH⁻ or HCO₃⁻ ions → alkalizes the rhizosphere.

3.


Microbial Activity

• Microorganisms in the rhizosphere can also affect pH:
  • Nitrification (conversion of NH₄⁺ to NO₃⁻) produces H⁺ → lowers pH.
  • Denitrification or ammonia production can raise pH.

Why Rhizosphere pH Matters

• Nutrient availability is pH-dependent; slight changes can make key nutrients (like iron, manganese, or phosphorus) more or less available.
• Microbial populations are sensitive to pH and will shift accordingly.
• Plant health and root function depend on maintaining optimal pH at the root-soil interface.

Summary


Yes, the rhizosphere actively alters pH through root exudates, ion exchange, and microbial interactions. This localized pH change is essential for nutrient uptake and overall soil-plant health.

 

[Mikedin]

Problem is once you start using PH buffers (ph up / PH down) it has to be continued to be used because the natural buffering from the rhizosphere is disrupted

 

[Eledin]

I know! Thats why I buy great white premium, it has every single organism that can live in the rhizosphere. I also know there are changes of ph in the rhizosphere that help take nutrients even if the PH is 7, but the rhizosphere is only surrounding the roots, it has no effect in the rest of the roots.

 

[Eledin]

Problem is once you start using PH buffers (ph up / PH down) it has to be continued to be used because the natural buffering from the rhizosphere is disrupted

Not necessarily, they dont mind any ph from 6 to 7, that wont alter their functions in the rhizosphere.

 

[Mikedin]

I should also mention, and I wont write more cause its not my post and Mikedin has been quiet which makes me think he is bored or doesnt agree, that I use liquid organic nutrients not only ammendments. Liquid organic ferts are absorved quicker than ammendments because I have burnt my plants with one single watering in the past so my experience might not apply to people who only use ammendments.

No no keep goin! This is how people learn new methods or techniques, it all starts with a discussion, that’s why I made this a journal and living soil discussion!

 

[Mikedin]

I should also mention, and I wont write more cause its not my post and Mikedin has been quiet which makes me think he is bored or doesnt agree, that I use liquid organic nutrients not only ammendments. Liquid organic ferts are absorved quicker than ammendments because I have burnt my plants with one single watering in the past so my experience might not apply to people who only use ammendments.

I use them as well, build a bloom is basically the same, but I like the advanced nutrients Organics Big Mikes OG tea I haven’t used them in the 30 gals but I am using it in the 3x3, I like the organics alive FPF Fermentation extract

I use it at 1ml/gal once per week

Organics Alive FPF is fermented plant and Non GMO grains. It is not mined or derived from mined sources. FPF is a powerful foliar inoculant and root drench with instant results. The elemental properties within its nature increases the plant’s ability to readily complex minerals and nutrients making them available to plant roots and easily absorbable through cell walls.

FPF is fermented grains liquid which we isolate and extract using a non-base method for pure and clean material containing no heavy metals.
FPF contains high levels of small molecule composition acids, amino acids, humic acid, minerals and enzymes. It is of low molecular weight. Because of its low molecular weight, it has the ability to readily bond minerals and elements into its molecular structure causing them to dissolve and become easily absorbed by plants.

• FPF is organic and non-toxic.
• Dissolves silica and magnifies the many benefits of this element.
• Responsible for an increase in stomata opening and transpiration and assists plant respiration as well as improving the respiration of beneficial microorganisms.
• Directly influences numerous enzymatic processes and stimulates the plant's immune system.
• Beneficial for plant RNA & DNA.
• Increase the activity of multiple enzymes.
• Aid chlorophyll synthesis.
• Enhances terpene profile and increase brix.
• Increase crop yields.
• Buffer soil pH.
• Synthesize new minerals.
• Stimulate plant metabolism.
• Decompose silica to release essential mineral nutrients.
• Detoxify various pollutants (pesticides, herbicides, etc.).

 

[Eledin]

No no keep goin! This is how people learn new methods or techniques, it all starts with a discussion, that’s why I made this a journal and living soil discussion!

Im one of those who pushes the plants to the limit, Im not happy until I see some crispy leaves. I ammend the soil, then top dress a bit after 3rd week of flower and then push with organic liquids. I think that pushing a plant with ammendments is way too hard as you need time for the nutes to become available for the plant, if you used too much well too bad, its burning hahaha and if you used too little its already showing deficiencies so it makes sense to go with a sensible approach.

 

[Eledin]

I use them as well, build a bloom is basically the same, but I like the advanced nutrients Organics Big Mikes OG tea I haven’t used them in the 30 gals but I am using it in the 3x3, I like the organics alive FPF Fermentation extract

I use it at 1ml/gal once per week

Organics Alive FPF is fermented plant and Non GMO grains. It is not mined or derived from mined sources. FPF is a powerful foliar inoculant and root drench with instant results. The elemental properties within its nature increases the plant’s ability to readily complex minerals and nutrients making them available to plant roots and easily absorbable through cell walls.

FPF is fermented grains liquid which we isolate and extract using a non-base method for pure and clean material containing no heavy metals.
FPF contains high levels of small molecule composition acids, amino acids, humic acid, minerals and enzymes. It is of low molecular weight. Because of its low molecular weight, it has the ability to readily bond minerals and elements into its molecular structure causing them to dissolve and become easily absorbed by plants.

• FPF is organic and non-toxic.
• Dissolves silica and magnifies the many benefits of this element.
• Responsible for an increase in stomata opening and transpiration and assists plant respiration as well as improving the respiration of beneficial microorganisms.
• Directly influences numerous enzymatic processes and stimulates the plant's immune system.
• Beneficial for plant RNA & DNA.
• Increase the activity of multiple enzymes.
• Aid chlorophyll synthesis.
• Enhances terpene profile and increase brix.
• Increase crop yields.
• Buffer soil pH.
• Synthesize new minerals.
• Stimulate plant metabolism.
• Decompose silica to release essential mineral nutrients.
• Detoxify various pollutants (pesticides, herbicides, etc.).

Well that would make my job way easier hahaha. I use fermented plant extract, from kelp, tropical plants and from my previous harvests. I dont let nothing go to waste so I make a concentrate, add some enzymes to help the process of decomposing chlorophyl in compounds the plant can use to produce it herself (otherwise the roots wont take it) and yeah... thats a very good product that I try to imitate the best I can. Honestly, its very easy as the leaves already contain the NPK ratios that the plants want. I dont rely only on it because it doesnt give everything but its certainly in their diet.