Monster Crop Grow Diary (white Widow, Tangerine Dream, Sour Diesel, Hydro)

[Junk]

Just what the title says. I'm in DWC, 5 Gallon buckets, 10" net, hydraton. I will update the nutes because I don't know the manufacturer off hand.

All clones were taken from flowering mother. You can see them here in various stages of reverting. The one that looks the craziest, has been rooting for 5 weeks! But they are finally starting to take off. The only strains I'm sure of are Barney's Farm Tangerine Dream, & Dutch Passion White Widow. I do believe the one that is most advanced is a different strain. If I had to guess, it's either Sour Diesel, might be Strawberry Cough, or Sugar Black Rose. Honestly, it's taken so long to start, that I forgot what it is lol. I will know once it grows out. If it's Strawberry Cough that's gonna be interesting (that plant is beast)

I have never done this technique, only read about it. So I got a local farmer to take almost 20 flowering clones, & I have 5.

I intentionally took some with more flowers on it, just to see what would happen. The clones were all taken from plants at different periods (again, just to see what would happen) To match the timeline I expected to see, I took clones from the latest stages first (21-28 days) & these have been a full 5 weeks to see the mutant leafs you see here. The rest were taken from day 18, but from plants that are 2 weeks apart. In other words, they are 2 weeks behind. Also, the mother did not look as matured as the other plant at day 18.

My intention is not to follow the timeline, etc. We all know they take a while to revert etc. I want to see exactly how they grow.

Right away I can see a major negative. It takes an awful long time to revert. In 5 weeks I could be pretty close to having a fully vegged out plant. However, I veg my plants out for a while, 8 weeks or so. So, depending on how fast it goes from here, for a person like me, it might be a wash or close to it. Also, someone told me to trim any of the large flowers off the clone, doing that made the clones root in about 3 weeks.

Not much else to report here at the moment. Here are pics of the clones all in the various stages of reverting. You can see a couple of them are starting to put out the weird leaves.

 

[Og Gong]

Get ready for some crazy branching. 1 branch is gonna be like 1 plant lol Should be cool. :cigar:

 

[Junk]

The first picture is the mystery strain. It was made up with a bunch of other clones & I don't know what strain it is anymore. The second is White Widow, as is the one ending in 955. The other two are Tangerine Dream. Those are two of my all time favorite strains. Well grown Tangerine Dream will leave you toe up.

By the looks of the leaves there, I'm guessing it's Sour Diesel. I was thinking I will know soon enough, but considering the plant is supposed to grow all crazy like, I may not be sure till I see the flowers.

Anything but Strawberry Cough is fine with me. (I like Strawberry Cough, but it's not an easy plant to run at the same time as other strains, crazy tall structure)

 

[Junk]

More pics. I'm not regulated enough to take pics the same time each week, so I'll just update them as I take them. The day of the post will be the day of the pictures.

Not much going on except the beginning of branching on the most advanced reversion.

 

[Junk]

Actually, if you look at the large profile pic of the most advanced one, you'll see the start of branches, but one branch that is not like any of the others. This is my first time doing one of these so, I'm not sure what that is/means yet, but...

Perhaps that is the new main stalk w/future branch sites. They seem to be in alternating patterns. Interesting.

 

[Junk]

Update. The mystery plant remains a mystery. I'm hoping (and thinking) it's a sour diesel.

One of the white widows started to turn. When these things start spitting the crazy leaves it's very quick. This new one wasn't like this yesterday

White Widow






Mystery strain


Tangerine Dream

White widow


Tangerine Dream

 

[Junk]

Haven't updated in a bit. But finally the tent is free to put these ladies in it.

I'm pretty certain now that the mystery strain is Sour Diesel. I can't seem to get the hang of Fimming, so I gave it another shot, we'll see if I got it right in the next update. For the life of me, I can't get it right, I keep ending up with tops instead of 4.

I pulled these flowering clones at various stages of flowering, to see what was the optimal time. You can see the Sour Diesel (the least mature of them) was taken 25 days into flowering. It was taken 5/12...that's how long it's taken to completely reveg. I haven't had them under very powerful lighting though. 14 - 16 days after the flip seems to be the best time. Reveg time is less (obviously) but you still get the monster cropping effect.

I did this just as an experiment, and for anyone who found it interesting. I've read many times that people say it's not worth it. But I think it means a little more when you have pictures and a timeline to see exactly how much time you are giving up, vs. coming from a regular clone or seed. But now that I have tried it for myself, I agree. You could veg a new plant out faster.

While waiting for the tent to free up from flowering plants, I just had these buckets in a circle around a hanging 125w cfl, so the veg growth has been extra slow. They are really taking off now. These pics are from yesterday, and there is already a drastic difference today.

Anyways, here's the pics


Tangerine Dream



White Widow


Tangerine Dream with some light burn (meaning the bulb was too close, and a little too much K I believe) This is the test plant. I feed one plant first, then watch for any problems. The next day, I feed the others. I've had lockout before. But I also want to be at the limits of what the plant will take and use to grow. The only way to do that imo, is to do one plant, see how it handles it, then adjust for the rest. This plant will recover fine, so I might make the Sour D the test plant in the future now that I know what it is. It's the lightest feeder of the group.


White Widow

Sour Diesel (90% sure anyway) as it grows out a bit more I'll know for sure.

 

[Junk]

They are really taking off now. These pics were snapped yesterday about 3pm. I had to thin one of them out, I just couldn't see what was going on in there. Next time I'll switch the lights so we aren't looking at purple.

So, in playing with taking all these clones at different times, I confirmed my suspicions, that the longer you wait to take the clone into flower, the longer it takes to re-veg. I was certain this was going to happen, so I actually took the clones in a certain order...so that if I was right, they would all be growing at about the same time. I wish I got them a little more in sync than they are, I just did not expect the clone taken 30 days in to take 3 months to re-veg. The funkiest looking plant was taken from the plant 5/19/2015

Tangerine Dream. This clone was taken 12 days from the flip. I'd have to look at my notes for the date the clone was taken but it took a solid 25 days to reveg (I believe a little longer). I could have grown something from seed in that amount of time. However, once it reverts, it grows like an animal. Fast, loud, wide, tons of tops. I suppose my next experiment should be to start a seed & re-veg a flowering clone, & see what both look like after 6-8 weeks. That's really what would matter in the end. Because I could veg out a seed pretty well in 8 weeks (I veg for a while) However, what we see in this pic below is not my starting point. Not even close. You get your main going, a couple sides (which I usually cut off her eventually) you top or fim. This plant below is what I'm starting with. So I've been saying all along it's not worth the reveg time. But if I'm talking about the plant taken at the optimal date, & her re-veg time vs. a seed. The seed would be much more advanced by week 3-4.

However, you then have to factor in the benefits of how many tops you are going to start with, & how explosively fast it grows. So, at the moment, my thoughts are: if you clone it at just the right time, even though it takes a long time to revert, I'd love to start with this plant as opposed to the growth structure a seed creates. Do you know how many tops I could have? Or how short I can keep this plant? This first plant is about 8" tall, it's ridiculous. Anyway, here are what the benefits look like.

Tangerine Dream (Barney's Farm)


White Widow (Dutch Passion- the more I think about this, the more I'm not certain. These clones were taken from plants during a move, so I'm going to stop saying Dutch Passion)


Tangerine Dream


Mystery Strain I'm fairly certain it's Sour Diesel Can't remember what co.


White Widow


Group pic...Cheese!

 

[tobh]

Looking mighty fine there @Junk. Would love to have white widow back in my possession, one of my all time favorites for sure. Had GN's variety back when he was making his seeds with a purple skunk male. Definitely was some nice smoke. Good yielder too. Gonna stick around and see how this finishes out!

 

[Junk]

I would love to have the White Widow from the 90's back. I think Toaster said Dinafem's version is very much like the original, which is what I have been looking for.

None of the varieties I have grown, no matter how well grown, are anything like the original.

Tangerine Dream however...this is one of my favorites. Everyone goes crazy for Blue Dream nowadays, in my opinion, Tangerine Dream, is better.

 

[tobh]

Blue Dream is definitely nice, but I'm not a fan personally. The variety the dispensaries here provide is too racy for me. They did have some incredible Skywalker that I fell in love with at one point though. Best day time smoke I've had in years.

 

[Junk]

Skywalker is one of the all time greats in my opinion.

I agree Blue Dream is nice, but during the day, it doesn't help me get anything done. A nice indica however, & I am pain free.

 

[Junk]

Just another update. As I said in my previous post, those attached pics were taken a day before the post. So those pics are from Wednesday 8/12/15.

These pics are Sunday, just before 3pm, so exactly 4 days later. So, I'm still rethinking my previous thought, that it would be faster to veg. I would really need to redo this, & start a clone taken at day 13, & start a seed in process. Basically have it be a race to a predetermined week. I typically veg 8 weeks.

The seed would take the lead in the beginning, but I'm pretty confident the monster cropped clone would win.

Because, what I see with a good seed, is somedays, you look at it & you swear the thing doubled in size in a couple days. Once the flowering clone has turned the corner to re-veg mode, it seems like it quadruples in size. It's almost like that strong growth spurt that we see in the stretch. It's not fragile like a seedling is in the beginning. Once it makes that turn, well, I see where it gets the name now, it's just a monster.

@maxfrost has been helping me with a hydro recipe, & what he is working with is really close. The only flaw (possible) I can see is that some of the leaves are yellowing in the center. It's only on new growth & then the leave changes to normal color. The pics you see below are the only pics I took of it. It gives you the idea. It doesn't feel different, the entire leaf feels strong healthy & large. It's strictly color.

The other I'm not sure if it's even a flaw, but super cropping is not possible, even with the newest of growth. They feel very stiff, more like a branch, so if you push it, it snaps. So some of the pics are just for him to check out, he knows far more about hydro than I do.

If anyone has any ideas, per gallon it's
GH Armour SI 5 ml
GH Cali-magic 5 ml
GH Micro 8 ml
GH Bloom 16 ml
Liquid Karma 7.5 ml
GH Koolbloom (liquid) 5 ml
PH is 6.2
Water has no chlorine etc & TDS is 4 ppm

I made the mistake of adding the Koolbloom during veg. I misunderstood what @maxfrost said. Anyway, pics

Tangerine Dream 4 days ago it had about 10 tops visible in the pic. In this one, there are over 20. The plant is 12" tall. It looks nice right? I must say that plant is looking nice & flat. How beautiful is nature? That's my constant lst'ing. That's one thing that is a pain. The plant takes off in different spurts because you effectively have 4-6 stalks that are acting like mains, but they jump off at different times.



White Widow a lot of lst


Tangerine Dream



Mystery Strain (Sour Diesel in my opinion) As you can see, a cricket has made it's way into the tent. Look at those massive bizarre leaves lol


White Widow This is a decent pic of the yellowing

 

[Max Frost]

Looks great brother! The yellowing you're seeing is actually perfectly normal. It's really more of a light lime green color I'm betting, & is just the new growth forming! As you said, it changes and greens up? I see it on all my gals. Lol...wait til you flip...it'll really show once they go into hyperdrive! Speaking of which... How much room do you have in that tent? Lmao...you're gonna be out of space bro! On this method...it's not uncommon for them to reach 6' or taller -- FAST -- if you don't control it!!

Here's a couple of observations on your project & what I've learned over the years...

First...clones will always outgrow, out yield, out smell, out taste and out stone itself compared to the initial seed run! In fact, when I try out ANY new strain...I never judge the plants on the seed run. I always take clones and grow them out and judge those. The plant will be SOOO much better in every department on the clone runs. In fact...I've seen progressive improvement from one generaton of clones to the next...meaning a clone taken from the clone will get even better! WHY? Well, I believe that it's because it takes the plant that amount of time to reach "true maturity" & "be all that it can be"!! lol. ! I've discussed this phenomenon with other growers who have also observed the same thing...so it's not just me who believes this to be true!

Also...haha...welcome to the joys of revegging! It's ALWAYS a bitch but especially so when the cut is flowering. Also...as you're no doubt learning...a flowering clone taken and revegged should really not be used to flower out. It's much faster, more efficient and you'll get a much better yield and overall results by vegging out your cut and taking clones from it (as a mother) and then flowering the cuts! The ones that have been flowered before do not yield as well on the 2nd time around in my experience. That's ALSO why youre having trouble supercropping (Or pinching as us old timer farts always called it). I've also found that how they react is largely strain/genetically dependant too. One strain may do great, while another never takes to it at all. WW, I've found is very easy to grow and pretty tolerant of anything you do to it. Skywalker you mentioned is a great strain! I'M ASSUMING you're talking about Reserva privada's Skywalker Kush? The clone-only is harder to come by...but can be had if you know the right peeps!;) I have kept a mother of that strain currently and was just discussing it in another thread here! It's a good one for revegging.. BUT you def want to flower clones of it! Don't judge it from the seed run bro! It easily gets twice as good in all areas on its 2nd and subsequent clone runs! In fact, my keeper of the Skywalker LOVES to be tied down (she's a naughty gal! Lol)!! I let her get about 8-10 nodes, then start bending the top over & weighting it down. All the side branches and secondary branches become tops at flip. It can be an amazing yielder if vegged correctly!

I'm really happy the mix is working out for you bro, but I need to give credit to 1973chemgrower (owner of Green Goo Labs) for turning me onto the method & lucas formula. Over the yeras, Ive tried many diff ways...and they all have their plusses and minuses, but this way gives me the best yields, flavor, potency, frost and just flat out better results than anything else I've ever tried. So...I'll probably always use this method now. I've modified both the nute mix and the medium as well as the hempy buckets themselves, so it's really not lucas formula anymore...or hempy buckets. I guess they're Maxy buckets now...lol. It's also the cheapest and simplest way I've ever tried as well. Immediately prior to switching to this method/mix I was an organics/soil guy. The flavor, aroma, frost, yield and potency I'm getting now are vastly increased, so I'll stick with this way!

I'm glad to things are going so well brother! I'm about to post up some recent pics in my newly revived Maxy Pad thread.

Lol. Here's a link... drop over and take a peek! Best, Max

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...reen-goo-labs-more.66405/page-11#post-1509791

P.S. You'll get more traffic on your thread (in my experence) if you'll size your pics down a bit before posting...or post them as thumbnails if you can't optimize the file size first. Your thread takes forever to load cause of all the un-optimized pics...just fyi.

 

[Junk]

Looks great brother! The yellowing you're seeing is actually perfectly normal. It's really more of a light lime green color I'm betting, & is just the new growth forming! As you said, it changes and greens up? I see it on all my gals.

Yeah, that is what I've come to the conclusion it is. Like I mentioned, this is my first full hydro run. The other plants I've done with it, were just to see if this was the route I wanted to go. So I was just using the simple (newer) 2 part from GH. The growth didn't look like this.

Now using your formula, the growth is just so fast & furious...that's all the lime green color is.

Lol...wait til you flip...it'll really show once they go into hyperdrive! Speaking of which... How much room do you have in that tent? Lmao...you're gonna be out of space bro! On this method...it's not uncommon for them to reach 6' or taller -- FAST -- if you don't control it!!

The tent is 78" tall. Usable space though (because of how much space I need for the light) is probably 65". They are all very short right now, but I can see how fast the growth is. So, I can imagine once it hits the stretch it's going to go nuts. Thanks for the heads up though. I didn't know they would rush to that height...they are also both tall plants & large yielders, so I will have to be extra careful I guess. I ran into this with a Strawberry Cough plant. Once it hit the stretch, it FLEW to the ceiling. Perfect temps etc, the plant is just a beast. I've run both of these before, I took the flowering clones. So I have a bit of an idea of how they grow under normal circumstances.

Here's a couple of observations on your project & what I've learned over the years...

You are the man! Let's hear it!

First...clones will always outgrow, out yield, out smell, out taste and out stone itself compared to the initial seed run!

I have never observed that, probably because I haven't been looking. Or, I attributed it to other factors. For instance, I mentioned to you that all these plants are stinking significantly during the veg state. But I was attributing that to your hydro recipe (which is phenomenal by the way)

In fact, when I try out ANY new strain...I never judge the plants on the seed run. I always take clones and grow them out and judge those. The plant will be SOOO much better in every department on the clone runs. In fact...I've seen progressive improvement from one generaton of clones to the next...meaning a clone taken from the clone will get even better! WHY? Well, I believe that it's because it takes the plant that amount of time to reach "true maturity" & "be all that it can be"!! lol. ! I've discussed this phenomenon with other growers who have also observed the same thing...so it's not just me who believes this to be true!

I've read both sides of that opinion. The theory that each clone degenerates a bit (I'm summarizing) I've never run enough clones to have an opinion on that part of it. But any opinions of experienced growers I absorb, file, & keep in mind in my "experiments."

That is also good to know because both seed runs were not that great. However, I had an accident one day. I forgot to turn the A/C on & it got up to 107 degrees in the room. It was one full day, & I remedied it as quickly as possible, but I could see that I had put a serious dent in a couple of the plants future. The WW stretched itself beyond repair. All the others, were either not as sensitive to the heat, or I just happened to catch the WW on the wrong day to handle those temps.

It's ALWAYS a bitch but especially so when the cut is flowering. Also...as you're no doubt learning...a flowering clone taken and revegged should really not be used to flower out. It's much faster, more efficient and you'll get a much better yield and overall results by vegging out your cut and taking clones from it (as a mother) and then flowering the cuts!

I guess I'll figure that out. My plan was, is, & will remain to flower them. I still have the product of the mothers so I will be able to compare them once everything is cut, dried, & cured. I have enough product. Really, I just do these kinds of things for the community as a whole. Sometimes I have questions (like monster cropping) where there are opposing opinions, very little documentation and photos. A lot of the stuff I do, is strictly to try it, learn it, & document it as well as possible so that others can form their own opinions. I don't have the room to run more plants than I currently am. So, I guess I'll just see what happens. I'm comfortable that I can grow a proper product, so I often "play" more than strictly produce.

The ones that have been flowered before do not yield as well on the 2nd time around in my experience. That's ALSO why youre having trouble supercropping (Or pinching as us old timer farts always called it). I've also found that how they react is largely strain/genetically dependant too. One strain may do great, while another never takes to it at all. WW, I've found is very easy to grow and pretty tolerant of anything you do to it.

I've not flowered enough clones to have noticed. The super cropping problem is the result of either the new hydro recipe, or the fact that they are flowering clones. For growth like this though, not being able to pinch is a small price to pay. Both were able to be pinched before, & responded well to it. Honestly, what it really seems to be is that the plant is simply too strong. Large, dense branches.

WW, at least the seeds I got, like you said, is a very easy plant to grow. It will take a good amount of abuse. The ones in the pic are clones from the WW that stretched itself too thin. I did this intentionally, because I wanted to see if that huge spike in temps that day is what caused the problems. I'm pretty sure it is, but I want to confirm. Like I said...I like to learn. My temps now are stellar, so, I believe, the plant will grow like it should.

Skywalker you mentioned is a great strain! I'M ASSUMING you're talking about Reserva privada's Skywalker Kush? The clone-only is harder to come by...but can be had if you know the right peeps!;)

I have no idea what company it was from. I take it that is the co. to get it from? I want to run 2 Skywalkers in my next grow. But anyway, a local guy just called me & said he had some fire, something special, so i picked up a Z. It is one of the best plants I've ever had. Really works out well for me for daytime meds.

The clone only thing...I'm trying to patiently make my way into that community. I only know one local guy who is in that community, but he will never connect me to his source. He won't even sell me clones he gets at a markup. He trusts that I'm not law enforcement, but it's his "thing" & he wants to keep it that way. & I respect that. I'll just have to find my own way in. I think that if I keep posting, making friends, & just being an overall jovial spirit, the doors will open.

But I also did not know that clones could be sent via courier. So that is something I'm looking into now. The guy I know who is "clone only" physically drives to Cali & Colorado to get his. I don't hold "clone only" in a higher regard, I'm just as happy with seeds. But it seems like a lot of the more desirables strains, are kept as clone only.

I I have kept a mother of that strain currently and was just discussing it in another thread here! It's a good one for revegging.. BUT you def want to flower clones of it! Don't judge it from the seed run bro! It easily gets twice as good in all areas on its 2nd and subsequent clone runs! In fact, my keeper of the Skywalker LOVES to be tied down (she's a naughty gal! Lol)!! I let her get about 8-10 nodes, then start bending the top over & weighting it down. All the side branches and secondary branches become tops at flip. It can be an amazing yielder if vegged correctly!

Good to know!

I'm really happy the mix is working out for you bro, but I need to give credit to 1973chemgrower (owner of Green Goo Labs) for turning me onto the method & lucas formula. Over the yeras, Ive tried many diff ways...and they all have their plusses and minuses, but this way gives me the best yields, flavor, potency, frost and just flat out better results than anything else I've ever tried. So...I'll probably always use this method now. I've modified both the nute mix and the medium as well as the hempy buckets themselves, so it's really not lucas formula anymore...or hempy buckets. I guess they're Maxy buckets now...lol. It's also the cheapest and simplest way I've ever tried as well. Immediately prior to switching to this method/mix I was an organics/soil guy. The flavor, aroma, frost, yield and potency I'm getting now are vastly increased, so I'll stick with this way!

I was also organic soil. It's a lot of work, one of the reasons I wanted to go hydro. Another reason I went with hydro is one of the other local guys carries product from a "master." 100% hydro, and the density, looks, aromas, taste, potency, bag appeal, EVERYTHING, was better than any soil product I have tried anywhere, from anyone, at any time. I've only been growing for 1.5 years, but I do perpetual harvest, so it's a fair number of plants. & I am by no means a master, but I had the hang of soil pretty good. This mix is fantastic. I've known about the Lucas formula for quite a while. However, people go about it different ways. The best way to dial it in, is to take the exact recipe's other people are using & compare them. Unfortunately (& somewhat understandably) a lot of people are not eager to reveal their exact recipe. From what I have tried thus far, there is no competition. This combination is just a growth bomb. I knew there would be a learning curve to dialing in hydro, but you kicked me so far forward with this recipe, I feel like I'm just ironing out ppm's, instead of "what to use." Honestly, the only reason it's being adjusted at all is because I'm just a curious soul. It's good to go, as is.

I'm glad to things are going so well brother! I'm about to post up some recent pics in my newly revived Maxy Pad thread.

Going "well" is an understatement if we are talking about the recipe. It's very good.

Lol. Here's a link... drop over and take a peek! Best, Max

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...reen-goo-labs-more.66405/page-11#post-1509791

Will do!

P.S. You'll get more traffic on your thread (in my experence) if you'll size your pics down a bit before posting...or post them as thumbnails if you can't optimize the file size first. Your thread takes forever to load cause of all the un-optimized pics...just fyi.

Thanks buddy, I never gave that a thought.

 

[Max Frost]

Yeah, that is what I've come to the conclusion it is. Like I mentioned, this is my first full hydro run. The other plants I've done with it, were just to see if this was the route I wanted to go. So I was just using the simple (newer) 2 part from GH. The growth didn't look like this.

Now using your formula, the growth is just so fast & furious...that's all the lime green color is.



The tent is 78" tall. Usable space though (because of how much space I need for the light) is probably 65". They are all very short right now, but I can see how fast the growth is. So, I can imagine once it hits the stretch it's going to go nuts. Thanks for the heads up though. I didn't know they would rush to that height...they are also both tall plants & large yielders, so I will have to be extra careful I guess. I ran into this with a Strawberry Cough plant. Once it hit the stretch, it FLEW to the ceiling. Perfect temps etc, the plant is just a beast. I've run both of these before, I took the flowering clones. So I have a bit of an idea of how they grow under normal circumstances.



You are the man! Let's hear it!



I have never observed that, probably because I haven't been looking. Or, I attributed it to other factors. For instance, I mentioned to you that all these plants are stinking significantly during the veg state. But I was attributing that to your hydro recipe (which is phenomenal by the way)



I've read both sides of that opinion. The theory that each clone degenerates a bit (I'm summarizing) I've never run enough clones to have an opinion on that part of it. But any opinions of experienced growers I absorb, file, & keep in mind in my "experiments."

That is also good to know because both seed runs were not that great. However, I had an accident one day. I forgot to turn the A/C on & it got up to 107 degrees in the room. It was one full day, & I remedied it as quickly as possible, but I could see that I had put a serious dent in a couple of the plants future. The WW stretched itself beyond repair. All the others, were either not as sensitive to the heat, or I just happened to catch the WW on the wrong day to handle those temps.



I guess I'll figure that out. My plan was, is, & will remain to flower them. I still have the product of the mothers so I will be able to compare them once everything is cut, dried, & cured. I have enough product. Really, I just do these kinds of things for the community as a whole. Sometimes I have questions (like monster cropping) where there are opposing opinions, very little documentation and photos. A lot of the stuff I do, is strictly to try it, learn it, & document it as well as possible so that others can form their own opinions. I don't have the room to run more plants than I currently am. So, I guess I'll just see what happens. I'm comfortable that I can grow a proper product, so I often "play" more than strictly produce.




I've not flowered enough clones to have noticed. The super cropping problem is the result of either the new hydro recipe, or the fact that they are flowering clones. For growth like this though, not being able to pinch is a small price to pay. Both were able to be pinched before, & responded well to it. Honestly, what it really seems to be is that the plant is simply too strong. Large, dense branches.

WW, at least the seeds I got, like you said, is a very easy plant to grow. It will take a good amount of abuse. The ones in the pic are clones from the WW that stretched itself too thin. I did this intentionally, because I wanted to see if that huge spike in temps that day is what caused the problems. I'm pretty sure it is, but I want to confirm. Like I said...I like to learn. My temps now are stellar, so, I believe, the plant will grow like it should.



I have no idea what company it was from. I take it that is the co. to get it from? I want to run 2 Skywalkers in my next grow. But anyway, a local guy just called me & said he had some fire, something special, so i picked up a Z. It is one of the best plants I've ever had. Really works out well for me for daytime meds.

The clone only thing...I'm trying to patiently make my way into that community. I only know one local guy who is in that community, but he will never connect me to his source. He won't even sell me clones he gets at a markup. He trusts that I'm not law enforcement, but it's his "thing" & he wants to keep it that way. & I respect that. I'll just have to find my own way in. I think that if I keep posting, making friends, & just being an overall jovial spirit, the doors will open.

But I also did not know that clones could be sent via courier. So that is something I'm looking into now. The guy I know who is "clone only" physically drives to Cali & Colorado to get his. I don't hold "clone only" in a higher regard, I'm just as happy with seeds. But it seems like a lot of the more desirables strains, are kept as clone only.



Good to know!



I was also organic soil. It's a lot of work, one of the reasons I wanted to go hydro. Another reason I went with hydro is one of the other local guys carries product from a "master." 100% hydro, and the density, looks, aromas, taste, potency, bag appeal, EVERYTHING, was better than any soil product I have tried anywhere, from anyone, at any time. I've only been growing for 1.5 years, but I do perpetual harvest, so it's a fair number of plants. & I am by no means a master, but I had the hang of soil pretty good. This mix is fantastic. I've known about the Lucas formula for quite a while. However, people go about it different ways. The best way to dial it in, is to take the exact recipe's other people are using & compare them. Unfortunately (& somewhat understandably) a lot of people are not eager to reveal their exact recipe. From what I have tried thus far, there is no competition. This combination is just a growth bomb. I knew there would be a learning curve to dialing in hydro, but you kicked me so far forward with this recipe, I feel like I'm just ironing out ppm's, instead of "what to use." Honestly, the only reason it's being adjusted at all is because I'm just a curious soul. It's good to go, as is.



Going "well" is an understatement if we are talking about the recipe. It's very good.




Will do!



Thanks buddy, I never gave that a thought.

Happy to help! Yeah...I really think the difficulty you're having with pinching is cuz they're revegged flowering cuts. For some reason, it does tend to make the branches much stiffer & more brittle. Oh, I didn't mean you can't flower them or shouldnt! (It's YOUR grow & you should do any damn thing you want to! Haha!) I've done both as a side by side a looooong time ago, lol. What I found was that revegging & then reflowering a clone taken WHILE IN FLOWER (this doesn't apply to clones taken from vegging plants) will give you a plant with lots MORE branches & tops, but will be MUCH slower and the yield from them will all be much, much less than the same sized branch or top on a clone that was taken from a vegging plant. So basically...a grower could reveg the flowering cut, take clones from it while in veg...and flower those out sooner and have three or four times the yield in less time overall. But, you'll figure that out soon enuff.

They also tend to stretch more as well I found, so I'd flip asap if it were me...1. To get this run over with and get a really good run going with better starting stock...and 2., so that the size will stay manageable. They (reflowering cuts only again) tend to go crazy and become wild at flip sometimes...again strain dependant. So what you may very well wind up with is several wild unmanageable plants after flipping that are going to be poor yielders compared to a normal plant. Now that you've got a system that's working better, I'd just want to maximize my time/efforts. But...that's just me. As I say...you should do what YOU want to do and try bro! I just want you to do so armed with all the info! It's also possible, they'll run great! As I say, it's very strain-dependant. It's just been my experience that it's not worth the time & trouble & you end up with much less in the end. Have fun, but my bet is that by the time you're done, you'll be glad it's over and ready to move on!

Genetics and seed is another topic entirely! I'll start off by saying I'm pretty jaded when it comes to big commercial breeders nowadays! I stay with the smaller elite guys. The big guys would rather "make bank than dank" these days (to use one of Chem's sayings) so I avoid them all now! Reserva Privada's is a group of (supposed) elite breeders whose thing is to try to bring the clone-only strains to seed and then to market. It's REALLY more about selling a bunch of product at the end of the day. People buy these seeds expecting the clone only they've drooled about, but what they don't tell you is that you have to buy and grow out 10 damn paks to find a decent pheno! And since they're using S1's and offering only fem gear...you've got possible herm probs and they're worthless for breeding. Yeah bro...the WHOLE THING with pretty much all seeds is (again...not talking about the true elite/boutique breeders or the smaller independants here) ...you gotta pop a fucking lot of seeds to find a plant that's worthy of being a keeper. If you just pop a few beans and then take clones from whatever females you get...you'll probably never have GREAT meds! Good, sure! But never the cup-worthy stuff you see in mags and pics! The reason clone only are so popular and so much better is because somebody took the time and trouble (or just got really lucky) to grow out a couple hundred seed of a strain searching for a rare and unique pheno. And even individuals among the same phenotype can vary greatly in all depts. too! So once it's found, it's only available by getting a cutting of it. I stay with proven elite seed companies such as BOG, Green Goo Labs, ROC, Bodhi, Motarebel, Sannie, Jordan of The Islands, and there are some good independants available here at the farm!! If you want to know specifically what breeders to avoid at all costs, let me know and I'll PM you. I don't want to speak negatively of anyone publicly (altho I have been known to do so)! Haha! BEST, Max

 

[Junk]

Flipped yesterday, will update with more pics asap.Plants beginning the stretch. Also, working on getting the pics downsized so the thread will load faster

 

[tobh]

Hell yeah! Excited to see what this run brings you!

 

[Junk]

Took me longer than I thought.

I switched to an Hortilux HPS on the advice of 2,000,000,000,000 people. My particular LED just doesn't get it done. It says it will cover a 54" square at 24" away. Not even close. It has a hot spot right in the middle (meaning intense light/growth) but the outer edges of the tent, it just doesn't reach. The only way to get it all is to hang the light really high, but then lumen/lux/par...whichever you want to go by, was severely reduced at the canopy level.

So being the inquisitive person that I am, I started to think: I have an LED in there pulling 594 watts. I have 3 hanging CFL's at 125 w each & one at 250. I'm pulling almost 1250 watts total. But because of the design of the lights, all that heat is dumping right into the tent.

To the electric company, a watt is a watt. I'm not saving anything by using that LED. Because it won't cover a 4x4, I have to supplement with other light, & I'm well over 1kw. I'm not saving any money over a 1kw HID & hood. Ive seen some that test out at 1100 watts. That is still well under what was pulling. But, if I put it an HID & vented hood, not only can I smash that 4x4 area, but I can remove some of the heat the light is putting off. So I did, temps dropped 4 degrees on the same hot afternoon.

Not only that, but I don't have to have all these other hanging lights & cords, & check daily to see if I need to move them. A plant would constantly grow overnight, into the light, & burn itself. (Because it's hot here at the moment, I run lights overnight)

My deepest apologies to my LED brothers ;) I still plan on building an LED. @seaslug helped me figure out the best places to buy the parts. But for the light I want to build, parts are $1400, & that is only because a lot of the secondary parts, I already have. Hanging materials, solder, heat shrink, thermal paste etc. I'm a "go big or go home" kind of guy, so, when I build the LED, it's going to be how I want it. This setup was $400. I couldn't really afford either option, so at the moment, $400 was the way I have to go. I'm not anti-hid anyway. We all know a 1kw hid will kill smash your plants. But I do think, watt for watt, I could build an LED that would do better than a 1k hid. In fact, once I have some $, I will test my theory. The biggest problem I will have to contend with, in the design, is I would be reintroducing all that heat directly into the tent again. So, while I flower with this, I'm going to revisit my design. I use co2, which means I have to have a lot of light. That's really the only prerequisite for co2 is having a lot of light. If you don't, the co2 is just being wasted.

Also, I had one last test plant in soil that I forgot about, you will see it in the tent now. I had it flowering in another room before. It's a Tangerine Dream, & what I did was physically restrict it's growth to make an extremely flat top...basically, just to see what would happen. But restricting the growth to get it the way I did, when it came time to flower, it didn't stretch (even though there was no restriction plate on it at that point.

The first pic is the "lollipop." With these plants being monster cropped clones, it is very difficult to get in there & get rid of stuff. The plant pictured has the least amount of branches that low. All the others, down at the bottom is all branches that are as thick & strong as a main. & with the explosive growth of both the hydro & the monster crop effect, getting in there is difficult.

Second pic is the Tangerine Dream (Barney's Farm) that I had restricted

3. Is White Widow
4. Excruciatingly slow Sour Diesel
5. Tangerine Dream
6. White Widow
7. Tangerine Dream
8. The root system on the largest plant
9. Lights on temps. With co2, that's pretty good. That is a new wireless hygrometer I have. It has two meters. The one inside the tent tells you the readings, but it also transmits them to a wireless unit, which is pretty cool. The readings are substantially different (higher on both temp & rh) than my other meter, so I just average the two.
10. The "outer tent." The 4x4 is too small for the number of plants I grow to do a closed system. So I enclose the entire tent in a zip wall setup. I call it the "Two Tent System" (TTM) Yes, it would be easier just to get a bigger tent, but as I mentioned, funds are an issue at the moment. I had the zip wall system already. So when lights are on, I open the front doors of the tent, & seal the zip wall system to contain the co2. The larger space also keeps things cooler bc there is more air/space to heat. If I could find reflective material that is 7' x 30' roll (or larger obviously & I'll just cut it) I would omit the tent entirely, or use it as a veg space. So if anyone is familiar with how Zip walls work, & know a reflective material that I can use, please point me in the right direction. I've searched & come up with nothing. I want something that is one piece. In other words, I would rather not use two 4' wide pieces stacked to make the 7' I'd rather have it be a single sheet/piece.

The zip walls basically just act like corner studs, & you wrap the material around 4 of them to make a "room." I need a large enough room that it can handle the heat of the light & I could space the plants a little better.

If anyone is reading this & deciding what tent size to get, get the biggest one you can. You may not think you need it, but after a couple grows, you will be wishing you had spent the extra cash. I'd give anything to go back now & pay the difference for the bigger tent. A 5'x9' would be great.

So, for the people who ask, "What size tent should I get?" You can see here in a 4'x4', five plants that have been vegged out for a bit is pushing it. Plus I just added another soil plant, & you can see 6 plants is too tight, even though a couple of them are small. I might take out the soil plant & put it back in the room it was in. Very tight in there.



P.S. For those who see that humidity & are like, "Whoah..." The other hygrometer said 70% rh. But I really don't pay much attention to my rh. I try to keep it in line with the VPD charts, but unless it's raining in the tent, I've never had any problems running high humidity. Anecdotally, with the co2, the plants will naturally just fall in line with the vpd charts. I've heard of people getting bud rot with high humidity, but I've never had a problem. Until I do, I'll probably just let the rh go where it wants to, unless condensation starts.

Also, there was a cricket in the tent. I know the bite marks a cricket leaves. I took the entire tent apart, cleaned it, & moved it. So hopefully that little bastard is gone.

 

[seaslug]

Looking good, Junk!

I'm about to germinate some Tangerine Dream and maybe some of Beanhoarder's "Keeper" pheno White Widow. Beanho is a pollen chuck but this might be good, I dunno.

Crickets, hmm. I don't get those but my Highland Mexican Blueberry next to the humidifier got hit with leaf miners.

The first generation of real budding LED lights like the Lumigrow ES (blue sheetmetal) grow good crops but they need to be substituted for HID at an equivalent wattage, IMO. The white enclosure Pro series is noticeably better but I don't like the thermal management of the later versions. The current generation of COBs and drivers should easily double the efficiency of the Lumigrow ES series (just my gut feeling without doing any calculations).