MPB Problems Root Rot

[JMJMJM440]

Whats going on guys, I have been on this forum for about 2 years now and I have been following Double ds and his System. I have built my own system in 3 different configurations over the past year.
My last run went great and I really got to see how amazing these buckets can be once you fine tune everything. I started 14 girls about 2 weeks ago in my new setup that were about 5-6 weeks old. I have 7 MPB bins and 7 5 gallon buckets around the perimeter. I am running 2 strains, Crystal and Master Kush.

I am in week 7 of veg and they are not looking good at all. They came from a flood table and everything was perfect up until two weeks ago when I put them in the MPBs. I got horrible root rot and they are really showing signs of stress. I do not have the luxury of chucking them and starting over so this is a real big deal for me. They were at 500ppm when I dropped them in the buckets and after about 5 days the rot started to take a hold. Last friday I flushed everything out cleaned the system, filled back up with tap water and re flushed. I then loaded the res up with physan 20 for 3 days. That helped, so I cleaned again flushed twice and started with fresh nutes at about 300 ppms along with the right amount of hydro-fungicide and sm-90. I am running sensi grow, Sensizyme, Cal mag, clonex, H202 with every res change. 5 days ago I added H&G roots excellurator and H&G algen, I had never used them before but after all the praise I have read about them I figured I would try them to help with my roots.

So it has been 5 days since the Physan flush and I am at about 400 ppms. I have been soaking each netpot in a bucket of h202 everyday for about 5 minutes each to clean out the black dead roots. Once I soak each bucket I dip them in tap water and then put it back in the MPB. This helps and the roots look promising for a few hours and the slime starts to make its way back . It has gotten much better since the Physan flush and the hydro fungicide seems to be slowly cleaning everything. What I am really worried about is the fact that there is no new growth either up top or in the root zone. I have yet to see one new white hairy root poke out of the pots since the flush. The plants itself have some new growth but whatever is showing up is curled unhealthy. I am really shocked because I have heard nothing but positive things about the excellurator...
My last run I had nothing but huge bright white roots, I could see new roots poking out everyday. This run all I see is dying black sick looking roots with nothing new growing out.
My configuration is a little different due to an awkward sized room but I am running 7 1k HPS and 7 MPD with 7 buckets around the perimeter. I have a 1/3 hp chiller that keeps everything in between 66-70 degrees. I have a 24kBTU window ac that keeps the room in between 76-82 degrees. Theres a bunch of fans that provide plenty of air movement and 2 2500GPH Mag pumps to move the water. 2 high blows that keep the water extremely oxygenated. The 75 gallon reservoir is light-proofed and I have cleaned it out and continue to sterilize on a regular basis.
PH stopped climbing like crazy and it now fluctuates around 5.8-6.2

I cannot wrap my head around why no new growth is showing up and I decided I needed to post and ask for any help that you guys could give me. I have learned a lot on this forum. I owe everything to the instructions and help that everyone provides here. Any help or pointers that you guys could give me would be extremely helpful. Like I said before, I cannot afford to scrap these girls, I have to get them to bounce back.

Thanks Guys

 

[mikeross]

I'm in for the answer to this issue. I have no idea what your doing wrong because it all sounds good to me.

Did you properly clean the system after the last run? I know I have read a couple members have issues when they quickly tried to get the next round going.

I am not sure if that h202 is killing the "good stuff" in that sensizyme. You should be running either or, not both at the same time. Is it possible that a much of dead bacteria and enzymes are not floating around in your mix because of the h2o2.

I am just throwing out possible issues. I have no idea if h2o2 will kill the bactieria and enzymes but I have to assume it would. Once those things die what happens to them? Are they just floating around your res decaying?

Good luck

 

[mrdizzle]

if you think you have algae, sensizyme will explode the problem

 

[TrichromeFan]

Possible that you have lumen shock as well as the root rot. You introduce the plants into the room with only partial lighting, and raised all the way up? The lights look a little low, for a bunch of fresh transplants. Especially ones with problems.

Just my inexperienced 2c.

You really want Lost and Dizzle in here. Edit, Dizzle comes through while I was typing. Although Lost might still be PO'd from recent sorry events here. Cross your fingers. And Dizzle, well I think I have a feeling what he would be saying about your "death without cause" units. I have big respect for both these guys, and they are the only real experts left who may peek at this forum.

Best of luck out there, and raise those lights at least!

-TF

 

[fiftythree33]

Sensizym is an enzyme additive and is not living, I cannot find any info on AN.com about bacteria in it. Same for Hygrozyme. :)

2 things I read..

If you just added Hydro-fungicide for the first time that has to be your problem and it should fix the roots with time.

You are leaking a lot of light to your roots and water. The yellow lids leak light and the white PVC leaks really bad.


I had the beginning of a brown root issue and hydro-fungicide fixed it in 4 days. thread is here somewhere... My guess on the cause of my issue was Roots Excel but continued to run it with hydro-fungicide and haven't seen a problem yet. I'll also never put Algen Extract in my res. When I used it in a small drip feed res for veg it slimed the crap out of the bucket.

Good luck. :bong-hits:

 

[Tesseract]

From my experience with closed recirculating systems, Ditching the h2o2 in favor for Full beneficial bacteria was key.

I have not done a system like this but an ebb and flow, recirculating rockwool slab drip system, aeroponics and DWC. I am now running a drain to waste coco set-up.

From what I have read, and seen, products Like Great White are amazing at keeping the system in check. Best of all, it works wonders with the H&G Line. You must at least get a tallboy to dechlorinate the water or it will kill them.

It will save you lots of cleaning and headaches.

 

[fiftythree33]

I had Great White in the res when I got brown roots... maybe it would have been fine but I doubt it. It is either or though, Hydro-Fungicide or Great White and I'd have to go with trusted hydro-fungicide. From everything I've read beneficial bacteria don't really have a home to live in, in an MPB system. But I'm very inexperienced so yea...

 

[Tesseract]

I had Great White in the res when I got brown roots... maybe it would have been fine but I doubt it. It is either or though, Hydro-Fungicide or Great White and I'd have to go with trusted hydro-fungicide. From everything I've read beneficial bacteria don't really have a home to live in, in an MPB system. But I'm very inexperienced so yea...

Beneficial bacteria can thrive regardless of a media use or lack there of.

If you prime the system before plants go in with a low dose of organics for them to feed on, they will create a culture flowing within the system. The beneficials culture to the root zone itself. The large root zones of these systems supply plenty of area for them to live.

I am not sure why you were having problems with GW but if your running chlorinated water, they will be killed and can't fight the root rot.
They also need plenty of o2. Can you describe your water reservoir mixture and temperatures. Maybe I can help to figure out why you still had rot.

T

 

[Hrpuffnstuff]

i just went thru same situation to the T ,, first was Rot , then that led to Lumen shock and so the dominos fall lol.... i went thru same process with the Pysan and Hydro Fungi.. lol trippy
I think TrichomeFan nailed it was combo of different factors that lead to this...
killing the rot and turning off couple lights helped me solve the problem , some didnt make it or were not worth it but others actually pulled out of it and are doing just fine , But it added a few weeks to schedual

 

[Tesseract]

i just went thru same situation to the T ,, first was Rot , then that led to Lumen shock and so the dominos fall lol.... i went thru same process with the Pysan and Hydro Fungi.. lol trippy
I think TrichomeFan nailed it was combo of different factors that lead to this...
killing the rot and turning off couple lights helped me solve the problem , some didnt make it or were not worth it but others actually pulled out of it and are doing just fine , But it added a few weeks to schedual

I know what you mean! There is usually more then 1 problem that is a contributing factor. During times of stress, the plant becomes susceptible to all sorts of negative factors. Because you transplanted and your system, environment or mixture might have been off slightly, it opened the door to health issues.

Without a doubt, Having bennies is the easiest way to keep things in check (@ least for my environments). It will allow you to keep rot in check, above normal temps, light leaks in reservoirs, and bad bacteria.

During transplantation, the bennies will help significantly with the shock. I go from a T5 setup to 4000w overnight with little to no stress shock. During my use with h2o2 trying to keep things overly sanitary, I was always chasing problems and trying to keep things Howard Hughes clean.

The fact is, h2o2 is a very powerful oxidizer and honestly not that great in the root zone. If you want to keep using a chem line, I would suggest off the counter unscented chlorine bleach @ 1ml/10 gallons or 1ppm of chlorine. It is way more gentle on the roots and will keep bacteria in check. Not only do commercial hydroponics farmers use bleach, they use it @ 4ppms. Your tap water usually has around 1 ppm when it gets to you. h2o2 is a pain.

If conditions are less then favorable, bennies will spore and come back again. If you were having problems with GW and still got rot and other problems, it wasn't the GW, but some other factors with your system and environment.

I have used Plantacillin with great results as well, but doesn't contain an anti fungus. GW is cheaper and better.

T

 

[fiftythree33]

Beneficial bacteria can thrive regardless of a media use or lack there of.

If you prime the system before plants go in with a low dose of organics for them to feed on, they will create a culture flowing within the system. The beneficials culture to the root zone itself. The large root zones of these systems supply plenty of area for them to live.

I am not sure why you were having problems with GW but if your running chlorinated water, they will be killed and can't fight the root rot.
They also need plenty of o2. Can you describe your water reservoir mixture and temperatures. Maybe I can help to figure out why you still had rot.

T

I don't think I have any root issues at the moment. My issue was early, 1st res in the MPBs and I didn't have much roots in the bucket yet. I'm on a well so no chlorine in my water and it's 0ppm after the RO filter. Not sure why it happen but I have veg time to run GW and Algen so they can stay out of my live res.

 

[Tesseract]

I don't think I have any root issues at the moment. My issue was early, 1st res in the MPBs and I didn't have much roots in the bucket yet. I'm on a well so no chlorine in my water and it's 0ppm after the RO filter. Not sure why it happen but I have veg time to run GW and Algen so they can stay out of my live res.

Thats great to hear! Stress is no fun when it comes to plants.

I bet it was something to do with stress from transplanting like you said. Maybe a few things, but as long as your on top of it, then you should be able to overcome it. It always comes down to patience :bong2:!

T

 

[JMJMJM440]

THanks for all the responses.
I have Quantum ballasts so I have had them on 50% for a few weeks now. I dont think the lumen shock is so much of the problem.
The rot has cleared up nicely and the fungicide is slowly doind its job. I think I have the claw though due to too much nitrogen. I thought
it would be a good idea to use some An no shock when I transplanted them and it turns out that stuff is only really suitable for clones. It has a ton of Nitrogen and I think its getting locked out. The Mk's are hurting the most. I am going to try and flush for 3 days and start fresh with the nutes. This is killing my schedue...

 

[JMJMJM440]

Whats crazy to me is that it has been a week since the physan flush and I still have yet to see one new white root poke out. Im starting to get worried...

 

[bakershredhead]

How much roots did you have coming out of your net pots when you transplanted from your ebb and flow table? Both times I've transplanted from my ebb and flow into the mpb all the roots that were in the table went to shit. My reasoning is that the roots get used to one type of environment and then when they get totally submerged in water they don't like it. I would next time devise a top feed system in your ebb and flow table so the transplant will go smoothly. Also anyone reading this get some sort of back up inverter or something to alert you if your power goes out if your not at your garden all the time. I had a bad breaker and it tripped for some reason and my plants roots sat in just air and a tiny bit of water for about 14 hours. Luckily the lights were off but when I reintroduced the roots to be fully submerged in water they didn't like it. I've now got my fingers crossed and hoping that what were my best plants don't totally die on me. This DWC is a pain in the ass. I've got a side project with buckets of chunky perlite with just a drip ring and they're kicking ass. I like the mpb but there's so many variables. Good Luck bro.

 

[fiftythree33]

I would guess you are not using an inline check valve? This would have kept your roots submerged while the power was out. Also helps keep the water off your floor if you have a shallow res.

 

[bakershredhead]

Na I have them on both my pumps but one doesn't seem to work. I did have water in six of the buckets but water no O2 very bad in dwc. The roots just end up drowning.

 

[600gph]

If your roots look good it could be the roots cant support such a large tree...Since you did ebb and flow instead of a 24 hour drip the roots probably are not used to the DWC...What I usually do is cut the plants way back and give them a chance to recover...

Are you top feeding????
That slime looks like the hygrozyme slime...The zyme will break down the old roots and turn into carbs for the bad guys

This is my 4th run using these buckets sterile like and no problems....SM-90 and H2O2 and a synthetic nutrient..

Could be wrong but I think the Physium20 can be rough on plants...

mc

 

[JMJMJM440]

So this run is full of issues for me, I cant catch a break.
The root rot is finally clearing up and I am seeing Big white hairy roots starting to poke out.

I starting the nutes again around 400ppm. The excellurator and Fungicide are working great. Ph is steady in between 5.8-6.1. I repositioned all the air discs in the bin so they are directly under the baskets and the roots are getting plenty of O2. Temps are low 70s at night and 75-82 with lights on

I run Quantum ballasts so they are dimmable to 50%-75% or the full 100% (1000w)
They have been on 50% for awhile since I was running into all that root rot. Now it cleared up so I bumped the ballasts to 75% and I also moved some of the healthier girls to the bins exposed to the most light. I came in today and all the leaves are wilting, curling, sagging etc...

Everything is perfect and the only thing I can think of is lumen shock from adjusting to the 75% lighting.

I have never had this issue before and every other run the plants always loved the 1000W Quantums.

Im going nuts... Can anyone confirm that this is them adjusting to light? I have since dropped the ballasts back down to 50% as a precaution but I have to get these girls into the full 1000w before I flip.

Ill try and get a few pics up tonight to help everyone visualize a little better
Any help or suggestions would be highly appreciated.

 

[BioShock]

im on my 3rd death by pithium at the mo, so im feelin 4 ya :(