My New MH/HPS set-up WON'T FLOWER?!!

  • Thread starter rendor11
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
rendor11

rendor11

I recently switched from using a relatively inexpensive $150 1200 watt LED to a 400 watt Metal Halide/ HPS set-up.

For the second time in a row now it seems like my Plant(s) just want to keep growing and growing and growing and growing (you get the point) after switching from 18/6 to 12/12

I'll let the pictures do the talking as far as my grow set-up etc and I'll answer any questions you have later. I'm growing feminized photo-period white widow seeds from Nirv&^@ (AM I allowed to say?) I grew the same exact seeds with the LED with the same exact drip feed set-up and after 3 days I always saw white hairs every time like clockwork. I'm growing in a basement with a short ceiling so I only have 48" headroom from the growing medium to the 6 foot ceiling. That only gives me 30" for the plant + 18" minimum for the grow light. With the LED I started flowering at 22" and it was perfect. So I switch to a 400 watt MH/HPS set-up with a "wing" design vs a vented hood. My grow space has a 4" exhaust fan built into the wall and a wall mounted 12" oscillating fan. I know everyone is using tents now but I'm in a basement doing it the old school way I guess. I had no issues with the LED.


This time I wanted to make sure I had enough head room so I switched to the HPS bulb (red spectrum) and a 12/12 schedule on the 6th of May @10am when the light normally comes on I switched the bulbs and reprogrammed my digital timer to shut on/off at 10am/10pm (it was 10am/4am with the MH light)

Every single day since I switched bulbs/schedules my plant has grown 1" but I don't see any white hairs. This is now day 6 and my plant went from 14" to 20" I'm using old school general hydroponics flora series nutrients just like I always did before with the LED.

LASTLY... NOBODY but nobody disturbs my plants when they're sleeping. That room is pitch black! I used to develop film in that room in college (yeah I'm old) so no light gets in! Nobody accidentally turns lights on or shines a flashlight on my plants. Will the wrong HPS light / spectrum cause this? The last time I waited 13 days for 2 plants to flower. They hit 30" and I had to scrap them!! This is beyond aggravating. That's why this time I started flowering @ 14" (I can't recall the exact amount of vegging days) Like I said these are photo-period feminized White Widow plants. From the same exact batch I grew with the LED!

PS. Yesterday I switched from the "transition to bloom" mixture to the "Blooming" mixture.

PSS, Does it sometimes take 2 weeks for white hairs to show???

THANK-YOU!!!!!!!!!!





























 
Deadstill

Deadstill

Supporter
Yeah, stretching is normal when you flip. I think you may have shocked or confused the plant in switching lights, too. Is there any way you can run both the HPS and the LED? 400w HPS may not give you the best yield. You said you've been growing the same seeds in the same way, the only thing that changed was the light. So in my opinion, it's the change in light.

You said you were running a 1200 watt (equivalent I assume) LED and switched to the 400W HPS, so I'm betting your HPS light is not putting out as much as the LED.

If you can, try putting both lights up. Another piece of advice I can give, which I'm sure some will argue is controversial, you could try 11on/13off or 10on/14off. I have been growing White Widow in my rotations for a couple of years now and I personally have seen better, faster blooms with a longer dark period. Some rotations have finished an entire week earlier than 12/12, and white widow is a relatively slow bloomer in my experience. 9 to 10 weeks depending.

By chance, are you seeing any change in the plant, at all? Aside from stretching? Any curly, odd shaped leaves showing up?
 
rendor11

rendor11

Deadstill... My LED was/is a "Phlizon" An Amazon El Cheapo special. My buddy measured the actual output with a Fluke Meter it was only like 280 Watts with both Veg/Bloom switches on. I was concerned about my electric bill. So in reality the 400 watt MH/HPS uses more electric. The reason I bought the 400 watt HPS was to increase the yeild! I've had like 12 different people tell me LED's suck and I won't have "ropey" looking buds if I switch to a 400-600 watt HPS light. The Vivosun kit came with a 400 watt Metal Halide for Vegging and a 400 Watt HPS for Blooming. It's a matched set. This is how it's designed to be used. This MH/HPS is SO MUCH Brighter than that LED!! I literally had to buy grow room sunglasses because it's like welding with the Mylar. PLUS I'm only growing 1 plant! The light is directly above the plant.

Seriously how could a 400 watt HPS not be bright enough for 1 plant?? What wattage do you use?? I figured all you guys knew this already but LED lights are just like cheap car stereo amplifiers. The expensive amps go by RMS wattage. I once bought an Orion amp that was 4 feet long! Yet it was ONLY rated at 4 x 25 watts!! Crazy right? If it was a "Clarion" or "Audiovox" it would have said 2000 x 4 watts lmao.

That's why I said it was a "cheap" 1200 watt LED because a true 1200 LED would cost about $2000 or more from what I read. Just like Car amps in the 90's.






Give it time.
Stretching is normal when you flip, and having to wait anywhere from 7-14 days to see signs of sex is also fairly normal. So just give it a little time.
So I should panic just yet? That's great news! OK so today is the 6th day, technically, since I switched bulbs on May 6th. Did I start flowering at the proper time? The plant was 14" tall. Like I said there's 48 inches from the hydroton to the ceiling. I figure that gives me 30" for the plant and 18" for the absolute minimum amount of distance between the ceiling and the HPS light. It's digital so I guess in a worse case scenario I could lower the wattage from 400 to 250 or even 150 if the plant is getting torched. Can you do that? MH/HPS is all brand new to me but I'm not giving up on it. I don't give up easily.

Say after X amount of days passes and she's STILL not flowering. What can I do? if anything? Can I switch the light schedule to 11 hours on and 13 hours off?

PS. I'm currently feeding her 2x a day @ 30 minute intervals during the light hours. I'm using an air pump and 2 large air stones.
 
Last edited:
K

Kot

I don't think light type matters, only schedule matters, you can veg/flower with MH from start to finish and veg/flower from start to finish with HPS. Plants that are put on 12/12 and are young will show pistils after around 14 days and they won't stop growing about a month after 12/12 also.
 
rendor11

rendor11

Well the 400 Watt Vivosun Kit I bought came with a Metal Halide bulb in a "blue Spectrum" and an HPS light in the "Red Spectrum". I could post the spectrum diagram on the back of the box's.

How FAR from the PLANT should I have the light guys? I've been keeping it between 22-24" away so I don't singe the leaf's. Rememeber I have actual Mylar wrapped on 3 of the walls. I don't know what these modern tents use but I doubt it's as reflective as real Mylar. Should I drop the light down to 18" or even lower?? Maybe that will help? I'm only growing the one plant. It's not like I have an uneven canopy. I DO have a SCROG net and I COULD top this plant if needed. That's to say if the damn thing keeps growing until it reaches Gibraltar!
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

I recently switched from using a relatively inexpensive $150 1200 watt LED to a 400 watt Metal Halide/ HPS set-up.

For the second time in a row now it seems like my Plant(s) just want to keep growing and growing and growing and growing (you get the point) after switching from 18/6 to 12/12

I'll let the pictures do the talking as far as my grow set-up etc and I'll answer any questions you have later. I'm growing feminized photo-period white widow seeds from Nirv&^@ (AM I allowed to say?) I grew the same exact seeds with the LED with the same exact drip feed set-up and after 3 days I always saw white hairs every time like clockwork. I'm growing in a basement with a short ceiling so I only have 48" headroom from the growing medium to the 6 foot ceiling. That only gives me 30" for the plant + 18" minimum for the grow light. With the LED I started flowering at 22" and it was perfect. So I switch to a 400 watt MH/HPS set-up with a "wing" design vs a vented hood. My grow space has a 4" exhaust fan built into the wall and a wall mounted 12" oscillating fan. I know everyone is using tents now but I'm in a basement doing it the old school way I guess. I had no issues with the LED.


This time I wanted to make sure I had enough head room so I switched to the HPS bulb (red spectrum) and a 12/12 schedule on the 6th of May @10am when the light normally comes on I switched the bulbs and reprogrammed my digital timer to shut on/off at 10am/10pm (it was 10am/4am with the MH light)

Every single day since I switched bulbs/schedules my plant has grown 1" but I don't see any white hairs. This is now day 6 and my plant went from 14" to 20" I'm using old school general hydroponics flora series nutrients just like I always did before with the LED.

LASTLY... NOBODY but nobody disturbs my plants when they're sleeping. That room is pitch black! I used to develop film in that room in college (yeah I'm old) so no light gets in! Nobody accidentally turns lights on or shines a flashlight on my plants. Will the wrong HPS light / spectrum cause this? The last time I waited 13 days for 2 plants to flower. They hit 30" and I had to scrap them!! This is beyond aggravating. That's why this time I started flowering @ 14" (I can't recall the exact amount of vegging days) Like I said these are photo-period feminized White Widow plants. From the same exact batch I grew with the LED!

PS. Yesterday I switched from the "transition to bloom" mixture to the "Blooming" mixture.

PSS, Does it sometimes take 2 weeks for white hairs to show???

THANK-YOU!!!!!!!!!!
does that power strip have a light with the red switch?there is a light leak if so,ok so if you want to listen to my way,i use the same 400 watt,ok,so at 18 inches i flip,im in a 2x4x5 tent by the way,ok so at 18 in i flip,i run my MH bulb first 2 weeks of flower,it slows the stretch,also work my light were it just a tad uncomfortable on back side my hand,then i lift light about 6inches,still warm but not hot on canopy,this is also a method for slowing stretch,when there done stretching,i switch to the HPS bulb,crank the watts down to 50% and start there at hardening them off,about a week later you should be at 100% ,then you start all over with the light adjustments,the MH and tweaking the light will keep them down along with a bit of pinching or training as it called,when you stretch is done you can send the light all the way up and it just opens the foot print,that how i grow in a little tent,ive done the same method for years in closets and all else,work that light and training and that cure your stretch problem,i cant really say about your white hair,heat can cause them to reappear in flower almost at harvest time,one thing for sure id run a min of a 6inch exhaust fan,i know nothing about auto's though and think it dont matter what light schedule there under,probally wrong though
 
roach

roach

I used to use a MH for veg, but the transition from MH to HPS seemed to give more stress hermies so for the last years I have been using dualspec HPS for both veg and bloom.

How long it takes for a plant to start flowering also depends on the age of the plant, a clone will always be faster to show white hairs than when you force a seed plant that aren't yet fully mature into flowering. And when a plant is actually mature depends on genetics too I would guess.
 
Mr.jiujitsu

Mr.jiujitsu

I use 1000w dimmable ballast and most of my grow is set at 500w and my yields are decent. I do a lot of LST and fill a 4' × 4' × 6.5' grow tent. View attachment 874964
When you dim an hps you move the spectrum of light that is output. Your better off running a light the tent can handle as far as temperatures at full output than running one dimmed. Looks great, I only suggest this due to your wanting greater yield. I ran hps for over a decade before going led. Hps turns out some great flower but often times people lose sight of some critical components. Just a thought
 
Shaggy 70

Shaggy 70

When you dim an hps you move the spectrum of light that is output. Your better off running a light the tent can handle as far as temperatures at full output than running one dimmed. Looks great, I only suggest this due to your wanting greater yield. I ran hps for over a decade before going led. Hps turns out some great flower but often times people lose sight of some critical components. Just a thought
I use the 500w setting for veg with the 1000w MH bulb and seems to be fine, and I've been thinking of getting a 600w HPS bulb for flowering on 500w setting but I do go to 750w setting or even 1000w setting when temps are in check. I'm finishing up late, I normally run during fall to early spring when it's colder weather to save from using air conditioning. I was going to get the 600w ballast but eventually I want to get into a room not a tent, kinda planned ahead.
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

Premium Member
Supporter
your fine bro. Some strains generally take around 8-10 days to throw pistils. Some take longer. If you dont have light leaks and you already stated that it is just what it is. Be patient. Good things take time.
 
Shaggy 70

Shaggy 70

Yup, patience and all of a sudden those pistols will be popping out all over. I started indoors with a 400w lamp in a 3'×2.5' closet and had some nice plants.
 
Mr.Juice

Mr.Juice

Nothing wrong with the cheap LEDs, think you just have to approach them in a different way.

If you put a 100 5W LEDs together you can call it a 500W light fixture. But the the LEDs aren’t being driven at 5W each. Running a LED at its max rated power is not good for its longevity, efficiency and heat production. So they are driven with less power.

For comparison you need to look at actual power consumption for LEDs. I use “aglex” LED lights off of Amazon, they would be considered as a “cheapo” brand. I have a 2000W AND two 1200W running in a 4x4 tent. So the total is 4400W but in actuality it’s running at ~650W

My last grow I ran the 2000W on both veg and bloom, and ran each of the 1200s with only bloom on. Tried to see what would happen if I shifted light more to the red side. So I was running 540 actual watts. Was my third grow, so I’m still new, made mistakes and this is what I got after trim, side cola
875109


Not bad considering my skill level. Just my 2 cents anyways
 
K

Kot

Nothing wrong with the cheap LEDs, think you just have to approach them in a different way.

If you put a 100 5W LEDs together you can call it a 500W light fixture. But the the LEDs aren’t being driven at 5W each. Running a LED at its max rated power is not good for its longevity, efficiency and heat production. So they are driven with less power.

For comparison you need to look at actual power consumption for LEDs. I use “aglex” LED lights off of Amazon, they would be considered as a “cheapo” brand. I have a 2000W AND two 1200W running in a 4x4 tent. So the total is 4400W but in actuality it’s running at ~650W

My last grow I ran the 2000W on both veg and bloom, and ran each of the 1200s with only bloom on. Tried to see what would happen if I shifted light more to the red side. So I was running 540 actual watts. Was my third grow, so I’m still new, made mistakes and this is what I got after trim, side cola
View attachment 875109

Not bad considering my skill level. Just my 2 cents anyways
I think you harvested too early.
 
Dr Watt

Dr Watt

4
3
3
Good advice. Yes, the HPS can produce stretch, MANAGE IT. The HPS will produce more bud than a MH. MH bud is definitely a specialty of trying for better resin and more density to the bud.

This is the Kuman Electricity Usage Monitor, otherwiswe known as a KillaWatt, but this works vwell and is useful to check a range of appliances, usuallly positively. It gives power factor reading, amps or watts now and totals, finally, you can input the k/W cost of electricity and the unit will give total.
 
Last edited:
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

I recently switched from using a relatively inexpensive $150 1200 watt LED to a 400 watt Metal Halide/ HPS set-up.

For the second time in a row now it seems like my Plant(s) just want to keep growing and growing and growing and growing (you get the point) after switching from 18/6 to 12/12

I'll let the pictures do the talking as far as my grow set-up etc and I'll answer any questions you have later. I'm growing feminized photo-period white widow seeds from Nirv&^@ (AM I allowed to say?) I grew the same exact seeds with the LED with the same exact drip feed set-up and after 3 days I always saw white hairs every time like clockwork. I'm growing in a basement with a short ceiling so I only have 48" headroom from the growing medium to the 6 foot ceiling. That only gives me 30" for the plant + 18" minimum for the grow light. With the LED I started flowering at 22" and it was perfect. So I switch to a 400 watt MH/HPS set-up with a "wing" design vs a vented hood. My grow space has a 4" exhaust fan built into the wall and a wall mounted 12" oscillating fan. I know everyone is using tents now but I'm in a basement doing it the old school way I guess. I had no issues with the LED.


This time I wanted to make sure I had enough head room so I switched to the HPS bulb (red spectrum) and a 12/12 schedule on the 6th of May @10am when the light normally comes on I switched the bulbs and reprogrammed my digital timer to shut on/off at 10am/10pm (it was 10am/4am with the MH light)

Every single day since I switched bulbs/schedules my plant has grown 1" but I don't see any white hairs. This is now day 6 and my plant went from 14" to 20" I'm using old school general hydroponics flora series nutrients just like I always did before with the LED.

LASTLY... NOBODY but nobody disturbs my plants when they're sleeping. That room is pitch black! I used to develop film in that room in college (yeah I'm old) so no light gets in! Nobody accidentally turns lights on or shines a flashlight on my plants. Will the wrong HPS light / spectrum cause this? The last time I waited 13 days for 2 plants to flower. They hit 30" and I had to scrap them!! This is beyond aggravating. That's why this time I started flowering @ 14" (I can't recall the exact amount of vegging days) Like I said these are photo-period feminized White Widow plants. From the same exact batch I grew with the LED!

PS. Yesterday I switched from the "transition to bloom" mixture to the "Blooming" mixture.

PSS, Does it sometimes take 2 weeks for white hairs to show???

THANK-YOU!!!!!!!!!!
just my opinion take for what it is worth,but the mylar would have to come down,it will create hot spots for your plant,the insulation behind it is a better choice,the wrinkle in it provide same effect but also dont magnify your blaze if you dig,same with white room,use plain jane white paint ,not glossy,the wrinkle in the texture of the dry wall does the same thing i mentioned above,just a tip,lol you will probally disagree as most of us have already found this out the hard way,another thought is that you are convinced that the hid lighting aint worth the money you paid for it,take it down and use the led to have peace of mind,i dont care what all the genius say about fluffy buds ,hard buds,better growth and yield,the only real power is above your head and if your bald you will know exactly what im talking about,your yield ,growth,healthy plants depend on you and your methods,so led ,cobs,hid,t5 12 8 all that dont mean nothing if you dont have a plan,a simple window sill will grow buds if you dig,i been watching the thread and all have the next best thing,sit back and learn from all and then make your choice,seems someone talked you into the next best thing and you bought the hid lighting for there sake instead of your own,simple quest throw every thing you got in the tent and roll and be happy,cause a light or nute line isnt what makes things happen you do,be patient grass hopper it will come and then go up in smoke and start all over,im just curious of how many gardeners that have gone what your going threw and spend money on stuff,that have boxs of nutes,lights,fans ,filters and most off tents just laying around they didnt like and dont use,my self i got a 16 bulb t5 light with 32 difrent bulbs,2 led lights,2 4in fans and filter just collecting dust,i always go right back to HID lighting as i have since 1976 hahahah
 
Jimster

Jimster

Supporter
My Sativa dominant strain keeps pushing pistils out as long as I keep giving them water. Even when 90%of the leaves have fallen, it still pushes the pistils out until it either dies, or reverts back to vegg growth.
 
Top Bottom