My power organic mix

[GanjaGardener]

That looks like a kick-ass mix. I use a 90-95% perlite base so my tea based system is a bit different, but I use all of your meals, (except crab meal instead of shrimp for chitin) and dolomite (for cal mag) in the soiless 5-10%, as well as teas along w/ sulfate of potash, bat and bird guano some liquid humate and a few other things that I try out from time to time.

CT- I know you know you're mycos- I don't add supplemental benis- the health and uptake at the root zone is kicking ass already- fermentation? chitins? naturally occurring beneficials? dunno yet, but figure it's a bit redundant to add more. (I get mycos sideways- ie from a perpetual culture or handful of inoculated soil mix.) I could be missing some strains, though. What's your thought? (both mycos and bacilli)

If the mycos are introduced to the soil prior to transplant, do they lay dormant until a root tip finds them? If so, wouldn't that help insure that the roots would make contact w/ more available mycos during growth or does the colony stick w/ the roots as they expand, thus rendering the additional mycos useless or unnecessary?

 

[globe_toker]

updated mix

hey guys, this is the new mix

7 gallon Promix
1.5 gallon EWC
1.5 gallon Shrimp Compost (shrimp shells, cow and sheep manure)
-(perhaps 1 gallon of perlite to lighten the soil up a bit?)

2/3 cup kelp meal
2/3 cup alfalfa meal
2/3 cup rock phosphate
1/2 cup dolomite lime
1/2 cup composted hen manure 4-4-2
1/3 cup Fishbone meal
1/4 cup k-mag (aka langbeinite or sul-po-mag)
600gm. Rare Earth (2 oz. per gallon)


I have a question regarding the calcium content of the mix. Currently there are 4 sources of calcium: hen manure, rock phosphate, shrimp manure and dolomite lime. Is that going to be a problem, (eg. calcium toxicity)??

 

[mrbong73]

http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Ca_Basics.htm

This may answer some of your questions.

Are you sure it's shrimp manure and not shrimp shells that are in that product?

Nice mix. You could step it up by adding some more rock minerals. aka Azomite, glacial rock dust, etc.

Fish bone meal is a great source for P also.

Cheers.

 

[globe_toker]

Good read mrbong. Correction, it is shrimp shells and not shrimp manure lol. I was thinking of adding some glacial rock dust but thought it might be overkill on the minerals. Any thoughts?

 

[mrbong73]

Add it if you got it or can get it.

I was just suggested the ratio of 6 cups of canadian rock dust per each 1 cuft. by a highly trusted source.

Even if you went 2 cups per c.f. you would be better off.
I am currently using Azomite because it was easier to find but am actively sourcing an alternative.

 

[Seamaiden]

hey guys, this is the new mix

7 gallon Promix
1.5 gallon EWC
1.5 gallon Shrimp Compost (shrimp shells, cow and sheep manure)
-(perhaps 1 gallon of perlite to lighten the soil up a bit?)

2/3 cup kelp meal
2/3 cup alfalfa meal
2/3 cup rock phosphate
1/2 cup dolomite lime
1/2 cup composted hen manure 4-4-2
1/3 cup Fishbone meal
1/4 cup k-mag (aka langbeinite or sul-po-mag)
600gm. Rare Earth (2 oz. per gallon)


I have a question regarding the calcium content of the mix. Currently there are 4 sources of calcium: hen manure, rock phosphate, shrimp manure and dolomite lime. Is that going to be a problem, (eg. calcium toxicity)??

Don't forget that the worm castings provide some Ca, too. I doubt it would cause a toxicity, especially since you seem to be employing SFW techniques here.

Also, how about nixing the perlite in favor of rice hulls? Provides potassium silicate, they'll break down over time (will need more than a year, though), renewable, sustainable, feel like shrimp shells when they're wet.

 

[globe_toker]

I recently found a source for glacial rock dust so I will be considering adding that to the mix. I have read dolomite lime and rock dusts cause problems in excessive ratios as well. I figure 1 cup would be safe and suffice.

As for the rice hulls, unfortunately we don't have any local sources around here. There is an abundant supply of perlite though. The only thing I dislike about perlite is it stands out when planting outdoors. Other than that, its works.

 

[Seamaiden]

I recently learned that, in the south, peanut husks/hulls may be easier to source and just as easy to use as rice hulls. I dislike quite a lot about perlite, mostly that it's mined, that it's expensive and that, even if mined there seem to be shortages every year, right before planting season begins.

My goal is to never buy another bag of perlite again.

As for dolomite and rock dusts, if you're using soil food web techniques, I honestly don't think you can go wrong with using them generously as amendments.

 

[GanjaGardener]

My use of perlite has gradually increased over the past couple of years and it has served me well but it's run it's course. In addition to it's footprint, disposal is a pain in the ass and in my situation, it takes too much time and planning to keep it from being a security issue. I was hoping it would be the key to a recyclable medium but it hasn't proven satisfactory in that capacity. I can certainly recycle and grow in it, but the plants are slow to develop and they don't touch the health and vigor of the plants that are set into a fresh mix. I've never been able to overcome the problems of compression and lack of O2 in the substrate of any medium that I've tried to recycle thus far.

Coir and ?% of rice hulls appears to be where the foundation for my mix is headed next.
Rice hulls- pros and cons anyone?

 

[LightDep530]

Nice mix.

This thread is kind of all over the place, but I'll add 2 more cents about the myco. Myco spores need to come so very very close to a root to grow. They will not grow out in soil. They will remain there though until a root gets there. The myco inoculation should start right out of the cloner. Look around there is cheaper inoculants than grow store $60 cans. I buy mine in 10lb bags for $14 lb. Biologic Systems is the brand I have, someone else grows it for them though. A scoop of fungal compost ( old woodchips from a static pile) would round that mix out.

 

[Udyana Peace]

Good read mrbong. Correction, it is shrimp shells and not shrimp manure lol. I was thinking of adding some glacial rock dust but thought it might be overkill on the minerals. Any thoughts?

glove_tonker

"Almost" all of the Canadian glacial rock dust is out of a specific mine in Western British Columbia and is distributed by Gaia Green.

Current price in my part of the world is less than $11.00 for 50 lbs. and the company which sells almost all of it in Northwest Oregon and Southwest Washington is Concentrates.

A weekly paper did an article about them and the glacial rock dust specifically - link

I prefer it over Azomite, NJ Greensand, bentonite, basalt dust, etc. but that's just me. I mix a combination of glacial rock dust, oyster shell powder (Calcium Carbonate CaCO3) and some soft rock phosphate (SRP) and that's pretty much it.

Glacial rock dust can not burn your plants - that's a physical impossibility. It does not contain alumina-sillicate as do all of the collodial options (i.e. clay-based mineral amendments). It's certainly cheap enough.

As is the oyster shell powder - 50 lbs. for under $11.00 and is 96% Calcium Carbonate (i.e. 36% elemental Calcium (Ca)) and is sourced from ancient sea deposits like limestone, calcite lime, etc.

HTH

UP

 

[Udyana Peace]

Rice hulls- pros and cons anyone?

GanjaGardener

Rice hulls are a good source of Silica (Si), provide biomass when they breakdown (about 6 - 8 months), contain a huge range of enzymes, minerals, phytohormones, et al.

The biggest states growing rice commercially are California, Texas, Louisiana & Arkansas. The closer you are to one of those states the easier they will be to source.

Don't try to buy at nurseries but rather farm stores. They sell this as bedding for poultry and swine. They'll probably be laughing when you tell them you're going to add these hulls to your soil. They're also good for bedding in worm bins.

6 c.f. bags run about $12.00 and I've heard of prices 1/2 that down in California's Central Valley where the rice is grown and hulled.

HTH

UP

 

[sweetbee]

organics,organics,organics ,
,, Love the Farm, love the Farmers !!! Thank-you for "generations to come "
Sweetbee !

 

[Seamaiden]

Ganja, Sierra foothills here and I'm using rice hulls sourced from the feed store. I can't remember the exact calculations, but on a volume:volume ratio, rice hulls are a fraction of the price of perlite. If I recall, I paid about $6 for an 8'cu bag, compressed, of rice hulls, compared to what I can source locally for perlite which are 4'cu bags at best and are often practically dust (not to mention, it's yet another mined product). Rice hulls are sustainable and renewable (obviously, I don't know about you but I eat a lotta rice, especially with my beans).

In fact, I would really like to see more sustainable methods than relying on mined, and especially mined and treated, products in our endeavor to 'grow organic.' I'm thinking about using the type of oyster shell that's used in chicken feed, I'm sure that since it's already broken into small bits that I can get it to further dissolve/break down in water.

There's quite a lot to examine with regard to all of this, but my conclusion with RH vs perlite is I've bought my last bag of perlite last year.

 

[GanjaGardener]

How do the two compare in texture, absorption, and O2 friendliness? #3 course perlite (I pick it up at the local farm supply store/co-op) has proven near perfect in that regard in a tea feeding regimen, albeit it comes w/ the aforementioned problems. I'll be finding out soon enough as I'm going to test rice hulls @ different %'s w/ coir but a preview would be nice.

I'm also going to be putting a half dozen air pots** through the paces (**or Rootbuilder II- not sure which), to get up to speed w/ the particulars.

I'm not far from the Calif. Central Valley so rice hull prices should be good. Farm Supply might already have it ins stock, if not, they'll order it for me. The manager and employees were too polite to laugh out loud when I told them that the 5 gal pail of molasses they'd ordered for me was being used to feed microbes and secondarily for carbo-loading, but they must've seen some method (potential profit?) in the madness, because now they're stocking it.

Ah yes, brix. If you're in the market for an inexpensive Brix meter, I just ran across a sale-

Can't testify to the quality of the unit, but the price is as low as I've seen for a refractometer.

 

[globe_toker]

Got some glacial rock dust yesterday, I have added that to the mix now. Thinking about 1 cup per hole to keep it simple...

I saw some mushroom compost too, I'll throw a handful of that in as well.

Thanks for the info and help guys, if anyone has any tweaks or recommendations anything positive is appreciated!

Also, how long do you think I should wait before planting once the soil has been mixed? 3 weeks?

 

[globe_toker]

complete mix now per 10 gallon soil base

2 cup glacial rock dust
2/3 cup kelp meal
2/3 cup alfalfa meal
2/3 cup rock phosphate
1/2 cup dolomite lime
1/2 cup composted hen manure 4-4-2
1/2 cup Fishbone meal
1/4 cup k-mag (aka langbeinite or sul-po-mag)
600gm. Rare Earth (2 oz. per gallon)

 

[GanjaGardener]

complete mix now per 10 gallon soil base

2 cup glacial rock dust
2/3 cup kelp meal
2/3 cup alfalfa meal
2/3 cup rock phosphate
1/2 cup dolomite lime
1/2 cup composted hen manure 4-4-2
1/2 cup Fishbone meal
1/4 cup k-mag (aka langbeinite or sul-po-mag)
600gm. Rare Earth (2 oz. per gallon)

Those condiments will make a lot of happy microbes go forth and multiply. :cool0010:

 

[mrbong73]

Those condiments will make a lot of happy microbes go forth and multiply. :cool0010:

I agree.
Don't be shy with the earthworm castings either. You can always mix a little 'bloom booster" top dress with some ewc and fish bone meal as you put them into flower.

If you're using mycorhizae make sure you get it on the roots at first transplant.
Some liquid kelp and fish hydrolysate as foliar and soil drench will keep things happy.
If you want to "play" with humic and fulvic that's up to you.
A couple teas like you mentioned will be great.
I really like Pro Tekt by DynaGro as a silica source and use it in every foliar and soil drench applications.
Also, bubble up some kelp and alfalfa meal teas for micro nutrients etc.

Good luck!

 

[GanjaGardener]

I agree.
Don't be shy with the earthworm castings either. You can always mix a little 'bloom booster" top dress with some ewc and fish bone meal as you put them into flower.

If you're using mycorhizae make sure you get it on the roots at first transplant.
Some liquid kelp and fish hydrolysate as foliar and soil drench will keep things happy.
If you want to "play" with humic and fulvic that's up to you.
A couple teas like you mentioned will be great.
I really like Pro Tekt by DynaGro as a silica source and use it in every foliar and soil drench applications.
Also, bubble up some kelp and alfalfa meal teas for micro nutrients etc.

Good luck!

I'm on the same page. Thanks for the silica tip- I've never applied it as a foliar before. Are there any visual results of note?

I have an organic gardening friend who swears by a heavy foliar regimen, but other than a weekly spraying to clear residue from the stomata and give the plants a mini "rainstorm" (veg->early flower) I'm more of a spot mister. I may be wrong but at present, I view foliar feeding as a way to buy some time while I figure out what the problem is below grade. Admittedly, sometimes the plant returns to health before I solve the problem but in either case, the results are a good thing.

Any insights on a source for foliar iron? This is what my search has turned up thus far:
Bottled--

View attachment Organic_BioLink_Iron_Fertilizer_LABEL.pdf
View attachment Organic_BioLink_Micronutrient_Fertilizer_LABEL.pdf

Dry/Soluble--


View attachment Monterey_Iron_All_5___Label.pdf