Need Advanced Feedback - 600sf 1 Plant Per Light 28k Perfect Perpetual Garden

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SoCalKind1

Have you done the math on fuel usage to feed a generator this size?it will be 3 to 4 times the cost of electric from a power co if not more.plus a geny that size will be loud as hell and unless you are a long ways from any neighbors someone will call and complain . just putting it out there before you waste time reseaching generators.your loads will need to be balanced real close or you will have early gen failure.
In michigan i get natural gas for next to nothing and its still triple the price of power from a pole and that is on the high side @ 13 cents per kwh.
This IS indeed 1/2mi from the nearest neighbor and there are things called sound enclosures + shed? This isn't some 3600rpm home depot generator. It's a giant genset built for continuous use that will be located in it's own shed on a trailer.

Also you definitely aren't from california. We get charged in tiers. Highest tier is 300% above baseline and baseline is about $100/month most places in so cal so I will automatically be in the 300% zone. This means up to 21c/kwh for most of the year.

500kwh daily usage x 30 days = 15,000kwh monthly usage

electric: 15,000 x .21 = 3150, i said ~3000 in the OP so yes... I did do the math long before I made this thread.

Generators 1/4 1/2 3/4 full load
40kw 1.6 2.3 3.2 4.0gph
60kw 1.8 2.9 3.8 4.8gph

$3.75/gal x 3.5gph avg x 12hrs x 30 days = 4725/mth
+ 500/mth or less for 6hrs of the 3 veg lights + overnight fans = 5225 vs 3150, not even double.


It's a pretty simple answer about mono cropping. You use the same amount of ferts and have the same rh and the same canopy height the list goes on. I'm not saying you can't do it but your wanting to do it a hard and inefficient.

Did you care to read about the fact I'm using 1 light per plant 6 lights per cycle and that most people use 6 lights for their entire grow. In what part of the grow will I be "inefficient" assuming I spend no extra time on the perpetual vs mono cropping. If it was the "right" way it wouldn't be called mono cropping, it would be called how to grow. It's not, many professional growers use veg and flower rooms. I haven't seen any math or evidence to prove your point of, "well if you don't do it this way it won't be the best it can be". Please tell me what is harder.

Pretty sure @sixstring just game, point, and matched us all lol. Sorry to be an ass but you are a dreamer not a doer @SoCalKind1

Ask tlc La how thier perpetual grow is going lolol

The cost will be 50-75% more than straight electric - not "3-4x". the numbers you all pull out of your ass like the "10%" is utterly mind boggling when the only thing you are backing it up with is, "good luck bro" and "lol's".

Find me 1 person who isn't a "doer" that is ready to invest 35k in grow equipment and in the process of building out a property specifically to do so with another 30k. I don't even understand why people take the time to make such bs comments that aren't about the grow design and components which I was asking for feedback about but rather whether I should do perpetual which wasn't even something that I put up for debate.

I see the downfalls of mono cropping. I see how it would seem easier to mono crop as far as logistics but I thrive in complexity and see no math that proves your mono crop or die philosophy compounded with the fact I have seen so many pro grows that utilize veg + flower rooms. To each their own but I'm not shitting on your mono crop preference I see no reason why you would shit on perpetual without showing any math other than, "25%, fine lets say 10%". Especially when I clearly listed and showed each light and canopy being separate from one another with no components, nutes, etc being shared by other cycles.
 
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SoCalKind1

There is an 8-17% loss depending on yield. I would feel 100% safer knowing that the electric bill isn't 3000 while others in the district are around 1 or 2 hundred. Have seen plenty of post by people who don't think electric is looked at and they will even say, "they won't care unless it's like 30 or 40 lights". I am far too close to that "too close" area to feel comfortable.

electric: ~3200/mth x 4mth = 12,800
gas: ~5500/mth x 4 mth = 22,000

1.25lb x 48plants = 60lb x 2100 = 126,000
1.5lb x 48 plants = 72lb x 2100 = 151,200


Electric costs
@1.25 per
12,800/126,000 = 10.1% loss
22,000/126,000 = 17.4% loss

@1.5 per
12,800/151,200 = 8.4% loss
22,000/151,200 = 14.5% loss
 
sixstring

sixstring

Well i looked into alot of dif gens and a 30kw at max load will burn up alot kore fuel than you listed.but im not gunna get into a pissing match with someone that obviously knows every thing grow related lmao.good luck sellin 450.00 oz to pay your fuel billz,peace
 
justsomeguy

justsomeguy

A lot of good advice from people that have been down this road before. In my experience, you need to cut co2 the last couple of weeks in order to properly ripen buds and get the right flavor profile. That is the biggest issue with growing plants together at different stages. You've clearly done a shitload of homework, but this needs to be considered if you want to run co2 and bust out quality herb.
 
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SoCalKind1

Well i looked into alot of dif gens and a 30kw at max load will burn up alot kore fuel than you listed.but im not gunna get into a pissing match with someone that obviously knows every thing grow related lmao.good luck sellin 450.00 oz to pay your fuel billz,peace

http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/Diesel_Fuel_Consumption.aspx

I just posted the math of 2100/lb at 1.25/plant and 1.5/plant figures. Gas will end up costing 50-75% more. I appreciate your in depth response.
 
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SoCalKind1

Again, what is with the assumptions without any sort of calculation. Such ashame.

you need 10 tons a/c min to cool those lights so i think you need to rethink your power usage

500kwh/day is what I'm at. Looked up fan wattages calculated hours for them, lights, inlines, ac's @ 75% continously on yada yada.
5 ton ac = 33 amps @ 240v = 7920watts x 2 units = 15840watts x 8hours/day = 120kwh out of the 500 total for the setup. Sound right to you?

Also, this is a large grow. Lots of power. Lots of fuel. All proportionate to the number of plants. In fact the larger the grow the more efficient it becomes in terms of # of fans, reservoirs needed and cost per plant, cfm, watt etc. I posted above that each plant which will end up 1 per light and 1.25-2lb each will cost ~750 overall. Compare that to the tents and setups people pay for a single 1k setup. It IS efficient. Please provide proof otherwise.

You need 3500-4000btu per light with co2.
4000btu x 24lights = 96,000btu

i posted 1 - 5 ton ac(60,000btu) + 3 - 1 ton ac's(12,000btu) totaling... dun dun dun, 96,000btu.

Now that is assuming 4000btu each with co2. I calculated with 3500, but might get another 5 ton instead of 3 or 4 - 1 tons because there are 3 vegging lights also. However, I could run less co2 or add 1 more mini split. I feel 4 - 1 ton mini splits would be excessive on top of a 5 ton in such a small space but I might just get 2 - 5 ton's and do a split from one of them into the veg tent and the other part of the split + the other 5 ton into the flower room.

This would make 7.5 tons or 90,000btu for flower, approx. 3750btu per light.

and make sure your lumi ballast will run off gen full time.prolly gunna burn up some lights,

Lumatek 1000W 120/240v HPS/MH E-Ballast - Generator Ready

However I have an extra light added into costs for both mh/hps in case of any burnouts etc so I can repair before heading to the store to grab another.
 
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rubthe nub

rubthe nub

You aren't my brother are you?

This guy comes asking for advice and then argues with everything people tell him, lol. This one of those instances where it's
book smarts/number crunching VS. knowledge and experience.

You seem to have run all your figures and done your due diligence, go for it, bro.

I love seeing and hearing people like you. It means soon there will be some barely used equipment on craigslist that I can scoop up at a fraction of retail :D
 
Stalks

Stalks

You aren't my brother are you?

This guy comes asking for advice and then argues with everything people tell him, lol. This one of those instances where it's
book smarts/number crunching VS. knowledge and experience.

You seem to have run all your figures and done your due diligence, go for it, bro.

I love seeing and hearing people like you. It means soon there will be some barely used equipment on craigslist that I can scoop up at a fraction of retail :D

Hahahaha I think the only person missing in this thread is @Shamus
 
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SoCalKind1

Hahahaha I think the only person missing in this thread is @Shamus

You aren't my brother are you?

This guy comes asking for advice and then argues with everything people tell him, lol. This one of those instances where it's
book smarts/number crunching VS. knowledge and experience.

You seem to have run all your figures and done your due diligence, go for it, bro.

I love seeing and hearing people like you. It means soon there will be some barely used equipment on craigslist that I can scoop up at a fraction of retail :D

I'm being told the following:

- mono crop or die
- that I couldn't have possibly calculated my electric and gas costs
- that my equipment is going to blow out on generators, even though it says generator ready
- that I'm lying about fuel usage regardless of the link I posted
- that I'm a dreamer, not a doer despite the fact that posting this would be a waste of time entirely if this wasn't achievable or my plans for myself in the near future


What nobody has said:

- how I can change the grow room design/setup/components/brands
- what gear I have left out, if any
- how a perpetual grow can work without bias over personal preference and immediate dismissal


If anybody cares to talk about any of those I'm more than happy to hear but I've seen plenty of threads devolve into pissing matches between preferences on here and perpetual/grow size are 2 things that I have already decided on for my own requirements/preferences.
 
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sixstring

sixstring

I'm being told the following:

- mono crop or die
- that I couldn't have possibly calculated my electric and gas costs
- that my equipment is going to blow out on generators, even though it says generator ready
- that I'm lying about fuel usage regardless of the link I posted
- that I'm a dreamer, not a doer despite the fact that posting this would be a waste of time entirely if this wasn't achievable or my plans for myself in the near future


What nobody has said:

- how I can change the grow room design/setup/components/brands
- what gear I have left out, if any
- how a perpetual grow can work without bias over personal preference and immediate dismissal


If anybody cares to talk about any of those I'm more than happy to hear but I've seen plenty of threads devolve into pissing matches between preferences on here and perpetual/grow size are 2 things that I have already decided on for my own requirements/preferences.
i politely tried to tell you to check and double check your fuel consumption because i have looked into this hard.plus....i lose power alot and my grow already runs off a generator.and i have many types of "gen ready" ballasts and the lumitec and phantoms both blow bulbs occasionally when on gen power.so i would imagine if you dont spend about 50grand on a gen you will burn up equipment left n right.and your figure for cooling is low,smart go low on a huge grow op.you should figure 5000btu per lamp ,those blockbusters are just a big ass radiator of heat,and propane co2 x 2 more heat,those tiny dehumidifiyers x 3,more heat.those 70 pint dehuy will be running 24/7 if i had to guess.and yes i took into account all of these plus your veg which is probably way under sized to feed this op,but yeah you need 10-12 tons cooling to be safe in cali.plus i think those ideal air units will take a shit on gen power,lots of complaints on those units.get some mr slims and hire a tech to install them,but even then idk if they will last on gen power.plus this whole op will need to be wired to real power or you will need 2 gens in case one goes down so figure another 1000-1200 for a 40kw transfer switch plus install $$
i run a perpetual grow and i have built a few rooms for others,read around this site and you will see the bigger ops like the one your planning are not perp.be prepared to kiss your old life goodbye because you will be consumed by this 24/7/365.i would space your havests out to a month just to give a little wiggle room for all the other suff.i didnt really remember reading anything about your curing room,that will also need climate controls.its sounding like 50kw gen more and more lol.you want to stay around 75-80% load on gen for it to last and handle surges.and you def need to make sure ALL equipment will run on a gen full time.
 
sdgrower

sdgrower

I'm being told the following:

- mono crop or die
- that I couldn't have possibly calculated my electric and gas costs
- that my equipment is going to blow out on generators, even though it says generator ready
- that I'm lying about fuel usage regardless of the link I posted
- that I'm a dreamer, not a doer despite the fact that posting this would be a waste of time entirely if this wasn't achievable or my plans for myself in the near future


What nobody has said:

- how I can change the grow room design/setup/components/brands
- what gear I have left out, if any
- how a perpetual grow can work without bias over personal preference and immediate dismissal


If anybody cares to talk about any of those I'm more than happy to hear but I've seen plenty of threads devolve into pissing matches between preferences on here and perpetual/grow size are 2 things that I have already decided on for my own requirements/preferences.
You will need more cooling and dehumification if you are running a sealed room. Your AC's will be running longer than 12 hours during the summer.
Also you will need a back up generator because you will need to bring the main generator down for preventative maintenance. I understand your reluctance having a large power bill but generators are loud, yes I saw that you have a shed to house it in, and stink. If you are in an isolated area sound and smell carries a lot farther than you think. Good luck in your mission. I look forward to pics.
 
DirtySanchez

DirtySanchez

Dude.. Please PM me. The estimates on your equipment prices are ridiculously high. I can save you ATLEAST 25% on the numbers you listed.
 
sdgrower

sdgrower

You might want to have your mom's and clones at another site since you are concerned about #'s. The reason I say this is that I saw as you pull 6 you replace with the best 6 of 7. I would rather pull the best 6 of at least 12. I only want the healthiest plants possible. Big healthy plants in a well lit and dialed room = big yields.
Not trying to be a hater just trying to help.
 
Billyboat

Billyboat

Moderator
How are ya gonna truck in 1000's of gallons of fuel in?

Can you do the maintenance and services on this generator?

You can't exactly bring out a tech..

Unless you are zoned agricultural I see this raising many many red flags.

less then 100 lights isn't a big op any more.

Shoot, I run a 15k Veg room and I don't worry about anything, pay your bill on time and you won't have an issue.
 
DirtySanchez

DirtySanchez

And sixstring nailed it. Everything he said I agree with 100%.

Op I respect and encourage your ambitions. But there are several things you're going to learn the hard (and expensive) way if you don't plan carefully for this.
 
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SoCalKind1

i politely tried to tell you to check and double check your fuel consumption because i have looked into this hard.plus....i lose power alot and my grow already runs off a generator.and i have many types of "gen ready" ballasts and the lumitec and phantoms both blow bulbs occasionally when on gen power.so i would imagine if you dont spend about 50grand on a gen you will burn up equipment left n right.and your figure for cooling is low,smart go low on a huge grow op.

You said I would need to sell for 450/oz and laughed. Polite is probably an extreme there. I have also looked into them and found that you can get 2 used units with a larger load than 1 new. I figure if it has low hours and has been running properly, with the proper maintenance I would get more use and bang for my buck with 2 used units with 1 on backup.

50grand.... again with the bullshit numbers. Come the fuck on. Look on eBay right now and tell me how many used low hour 50-60k gens are over 15grand... you'll be hard pressed.

And yes, a transfer switch has been calculated into my electrical costs that are aside from these equipment costs that are outlined. If I have the lights coming on 2minutes apart from each other to prevent spike overloads what more could I possibly do that gen growers don't already do?

Do you have another brand that you have used that doesn't blow as often? And if so, will lumi fix them under warranty if they broke under a generator like they say they are good for?


You might want to have your mom's and clones at another site since you are concerned about #'s. The reason I say this is that I saw as you pull 6 you replace with the best 6 of 7. I would rather pull the best 6 of at least 12. I only want the healthiest plants possible. Big healthy plants in a well lit and dialed room = big yields.
Not trying to be a hater just trying to help.

Thank you for not belittling my post sd. I was indeed considering this but wasn't sure if it would be possible on a 2-4week basis due to wherever they would be being about an hour to an hour and a half from the main location. Any ideas on where I should look for an off site cloning/mom area relative to the distance from the main location? I was of course considering this though because of those 2 weeks. I could probably get at least an extra 10% added onto the time for the canopy to fill = bigger yield.


How are ya gonna truck in 1000's of gallons of fuel in?

Can you do the maintenance and services on this generator?

You can't exactly bring out a tech..

Unless you are zoned agricultural I see this raising many many red flags.

less then 100 lights isn't a big op any more.

Shoot, I run a 15k Veg room and I don't worry about anything, pay your bill on time and you won't have an issue.

1000's... really more bullshit number throwing..
With my load on a 50-60kw generator I am looking at: 3.5-4gph x 12hrs = 42-48gpd

I plan on using a 500-1000gal underground storage tank and use a 200gal auxiliary fuel tank to take it to the site 2-3x one day every 2 weeks. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/t...-transfer-skid-tanks+auxiliary-transfer-tanks

42-48 x 14 days = 588-672gallons/2wks

Yes the genny I'm looking at has relatively easy maintenance with filter and spark plug kits. Old diesels don't require anywhere near the complexity in maintenance in comparison to most modern 3600rpm gas gens. For extended maintenance or if something breaks, I will already have it on a trailer ready to take into be fixed with the second used gen of equivalent power on standby to manually switch when necessary.

Indeed it is zoned agricultural land. Couldn't fathom bringing a genny to a residential setting or anything closer than 1/4-1/2mi from the closest neighbor, which I am not.
 
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