Need help, any supersoil studies?

[Scallywagg]

Ok so I work at a cannabis cultivation. Im trying to convince head grower to do at least some limited super-soil growing.

Ive sited the higher quality and general increased cannabinoid profiles. He asked me a pretty good question that I had no answer for. Are there any studies or at the very least some good lab data that shows increased profiles in super-soil grows?

Ive not been able to come up with a whole lot. Everything is just bro-science. Its almost just a given that people accept that super-soils smell and taste better, but ive come across almost no data.

Can I get a little help here!

 

[Shamashmagu]

I doubt there is any. I'm not surprised at their attitude towards it either because legal cultivation is about having a job not a crusade.

 

[Scallywagg]

Im not sure how wanting a higher end product that we charge more for is a crusade

 

[BigCube]

There isnt any specifically in super soil. Cause super soil isnt an industry thing. It's just something backyard gardeners made up an pretent is the best thing since sliced bread.

The only studies you will find are organic vs non organic fertilizers. If you're an organic grower, I suggest not reading the studies. You wont like what they say.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Im not sure how wanting a higher end product that we charge more for is a crusade

Its just Marketing and Greed.

 

[Scallywagg]

Im not sure I follow, wanting to grow cleaner better tasting weed is greedy? I mean sure its a business, and they want to profit, but delivering clean/tasty product is what we are trying to do. Would you rather it be completely illegal again?

 

[BigCube]

Im not sure I follow, wanting to grow cleaner better tasting weed is greedy? I mean sure its a business, and they want to profit, but delivering clean/tasty product is what we are trying to do. Would you rather it be completely illegal again?

Nothing. Other than the fact there is no proof that the weed is any cleaner or more tasty or better in any way.

 

[Deadstill]

Im not sure I follow, wanting to grow cleaner better tasting weed is greedy? I mean sure its a business, and they want to profit, but delivering clean/tasty product is what we are trying to do. Would you rather it be completely illegal again?

I think what he's trying to say is, they are more likely looking at it from a pure business standpoint. If a business has something going, and it's working for them, they're much less likely to risk something new that may change their product (even for the better) without 110% assurance that it will not have a negative impact on their business. Factors such as profit over operating costs, etc. come in to play. "If it ain't broke don't fix it" is the usual mindset of most business owners. And as Shamashmagu said, for the grower, he's probably more worried about keeping his job than trying to impress the boss.

I dunno. I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like is going on there. Welcome to the Farm, by the way!

 

[MIMedGrower]

Im not sure I follow, wanting to grow cleaner better tasting weed is greedy? I mean sure its a business, and they want to profit, but delivering clean/tasty product is what we are trying to do. Would you rather it be completely illegal again?

You said “we charge more”.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I think what he's trying to say is, they are more likely looking at it from a pure business standpoint. If a business has something going, and it's working for them, they're much less likely to risk something new that may change their product (even for the better) without 110% assurance that it will not have a negative impact on their business. Factors such as profit over operating costs, etc. come in to play. "If it ain't broke don't fix it" is the usual mindset of most business owners. And as Shamashmagu said, for the grower, he's probably more worried about keeping his job than trying to impress the boss.

I dunno. I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like is going on there. Welcome to the Farm, by the way!

I agree with what you said but i was saying that the supersoil being better is just marketing and charging more for it is greed.

 

[Scallywagg]

You said “we charge more”.

Sure, I think that is the way all businesses work isnt it? If it costs more to grow and you incur more manpower hours that product should cost more.

Listen Im trying to determine the real viability of this. Rather than try and paint me as this or that you just give me your opinion on the validity of super soils having higher terps. Or even better back it up with some kind of labs of each. Im not here to fight for either, Im here to see if the hype is real.

 

[Scallywagg]

And.... I will confess I have recently switched to super soils at home and I'd like to gain a better understanding for my own purposes

 

[MIMedGrower]

Sure, I think that is the way all businesses work isnt it? If it costs more to grow and you incur more manpower hours that product should cost more.

Listen Im trying to determine the real viability of this. Rather than try and paint me as this or that you just give me your opinion on the validity of super soils having higher terps. Or even better back it up with some kind of labs of each. Im not here to fight for either, Im here to see if the hype is real.

Fair enough. I think a water only soil will not get the plant to demonstrate its full potential unless well dialed in to that specific plant. Quite an involved process. I do think the high micro nutrient content and diversity of elements from varied sources effects the flavor, smell and maybe potency. I prefer to veg in premium potting soil and add a natural based fertilizer as needed for best results in flower. I have also tried chemical based powder and liquid chemical nutes. Really very slight differences and none of the patients, family or us could tell reliably in blind testing of organic and inorganic. I use pure blend pro because it works well with my well water. We all got them wrong consistantly. And we are some seasoned smokers. I started smoking in the early 80’s.

And as said above. Tests show that a nutrient ion is a nutrient ion to the plants because fertilizer companies are doing the testing.

There is a report out there for a fruit or vegetable that showed “living” soil have more flavenoids. But in a specific veggie.

There are also now reports of disease immunity being better with strong micro life.

Im sure with legal rec there will be plenty of tests on marijuana coming. But the companies will all have an agenda. I wpuld like to see university of michigan testing.

 

[Scallywagg]

Fair enough. I think a water only soil will not get the plant to demonstrate its full potential unless well dialed in to that specific plant. Quite an involved process. I do think the high micro nutrient content and diversity of elements from varied sources effects the flavor, smell and maybe potency. I prefer to veg in premium potting soil and add a natural based fertilizer as needed for best results in flower. I have also tried chemical based powder and liquid chemical nutes. Really very slight differences and none of the patients, family or us could tell reliably in blind testing of organic and inorganic. I use pure blend pro because it works well with my well water. We all got them wrong consistantly. And we are some seasoned smokers. I started smoking in the early 80’s.

And as said above. Tests show that a nutrient ion is a nutrient ion to the plants because fertilizer companies are doing the testing.

There is a report out there for a fruit or vegetable that showed “living” soil have more flavenoids. But in a specific veggie.

There are also now reports of disease immunity being better with strong micro life.

Im sure with legal rec there will be plenty of tests on marijuana coming. But the companies will all have an agenda. I wpuld like to see university of michigan testing.

Thank you, that is a great answer. The reason I switched at home was because of time. There are days you worked long hours at the grow and you just dont want to go home and mix another freakin batch of nutes. The super soils front load the work, but for me its nicer during the grow.

 

[Kanzeon]

My preference for super soil is because I have a better understanding of how to grow plants in organic soil, not because I think it's a "better" way to do things.

All grows of any plant are about setting up an ecosystem that works for the grower and the plants, and quality of the end product is a result of the relationship between them. Each different medium is another path to the top of the same mountain.

 

[Scallywagg]

My preference for super soil is because I have a better understanding of how to grow plants in organic soil, not because I think it's a "better" way to do things.

All grows of any plant are about setting up an ecosystem that works for the grower and the plants, and quality of the end product is a result of the relationship between them. Each different medium is another path to the top of the same mountain.

What is your basic soil recipe? Im not trying to get any secrets. I use a Soma recipe (roughly)

 

[Kanzeon]

What is your basic soil recipe? Im not trying to get any secrets. I use a Soma recipe (roughly)

https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/a-grow-diary.106769/

It's right there at the top.

 

[REDiJEDi160]

From a pure business standpoint living soil is far cheaper to run and yields are comprable to chem salts. Check out Jeff lowenfels and the kis organics podcast they have a lot of real scientists on the show doing comparisons

 

[REDiJEDi160]

What is your basic soil recipe? Im not trying to get any secrets. I use a Soma recipe (roughly)

A simple 3 part mix
1 part sphagnum peat moss
1 part worm castings
1 part good compost

Then just add some kelp meal, glacial rock dust, red wiggler worms, nightcrawler worms, and some cover crop seed.
You can build the soil hella cheap if you use local sources. I have been getting premium mushroom compost from a mushroom farm for 11$ a yard

 

[cemchris]

Sure, I think that is the way all businesses work isnt it? If it costs more to grow and you incur more manpower hours that product should cost more.

Listen Im trying to determine the real viability of this. Rather than try and paint me as this or that you just give me your opinion on the validity of super soils having higher terps. Or even better back it up with some kind of labs of each. Im not here to fight for either, Im here to see if the hype is real.

First question. Is the quality bad or the yield shitty? Why switch? Reason I ask is why are you trying to give the "head" grower tips or ideas. Not sure how long you have been working in the industry but keep that shit to yourself unless someone pays for you to be in that position or you do the right thing and consult.

If you want to bring something like that to the table figure out how much ( I assume you are already using soil) you are using on a per cycle basis from start to finish and the cost and compare it to super soil cost plus the labor and machinery you will need to mix up large scale batches. The answer is pretty simple from that standpoint. BTW this isnt looking this up online it's calling people and getting quotes on delivery and bulk pricing. Also if you plan to recycle it afterwards and the labor involved in that or not. All depends on scale and if you are indoors or greenhouse or outdoors. It's pretty easy to convince people on scale when the dollars makes sense. As long as YOU know what you are talking about in depth and not just scratching the surface or quoting a phrase someone else said AKA you should prob have been using super soil for a long time or on a large scale to make a suggestion like that and you aren't green behind the ears. I have seen a lot of people talk the talk but when it came time to walk they got their legs nawed off by a rabid beaver and are now dragging themselves everywhere.

Super soil is bro science to a point. The is plenty of science and testing/research on organic soil. Not specifically on super soil. It's just a recipe that was copied and tweaked a little to call it's own. The base recipe was being used and tweaked by Vic High for years. No telling if he was going off testing and analysis but from what I remember he had a pretty long write up of trail and error over years getting it to where he wanted it, not to say he already didn't have many years under his belt mixing soil. This was quite a while ago.