Need help, assuming nutrient lock with high soil ph

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Timf91

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So I double checked. The book did Say to use big bloom, and that's what I started off with as a week1 feeding. Seeing the nutritional label the grow big is much stronger than the bug bloom. And you are correct, no nitrogen. So I'm assuming now, that my plants have a extreme lack of nitrogen, and everything for the most part
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Blastfact

Blastfact

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So I double checked. The book did Say to use big bloom, and that's what I started off with as a week1 feeding. Seeing the nutritional label the grow big is much stronger than the bug bloom. And you are correct, no nitrogen. So I'm assuming now, that my plants have a extreme lack of nitrogen, and everything for the most part
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Yes they need food. The only reason I can think of concerning the way they have structured the feed chart is they are thinking a customer is using Ocean Forrest or Happy Frog soil and they are hot enough to carry seedlings and a week of veg without nitrogen. But the flip side is folks go and hit there seedling with heavy ferts in Fox Farm soils and fry the weee little ones. I bet you get a bit of Grow Big to the plants and this issue will be over with.
 
PurplePunch

PurplePunch

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My advice is not to take all this advice here too seriously. Each problem will have 5 solutions on any given post (and some advice will conflict).

Something is wrong. You should not have pH that high in brand new soil. Usually, it takes a few weeks for the pH to rise that much. I have a hard time believing that "just adding nitrogen" is going to fix everything. I suspect if you continue adding stuff, you'll make it worse. I could be wrong though. Every situation is different.

Before more steps, I would get a PPM meter and test the run-off water. If it's over 400ppm then I would not add nutes at this point. If your pH didn't come down to at least 6.5 then you didn't flush enough.

As for what happened, I'm guessing shock. Coco to hot soil is a big change. I did that once with a seedling. It stopped growing for about 1 month!!! It didn't die but didn't grow. The soil stayed super wet, and I put the plant back in the corner, assuming I killed it. After about 4 weeks, it exploded with growth. I did nothing - no water even. Eventually, I repotted in 5G and it did great.

What I've been learning (the hard way) is that soil is everything. Mix the soil with some coco to dilute it maybe? I've also had much better growing success amending my used soil with Earth Base and Earth Dust, then I reuse it as new. This seems to make the plants happier for longer. Allegedly, the used soil will "mature" over time and become better and better. I'm only on maybe the 3rd grow using the same soil, so I'm not sure yet. So far, so good.
 
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TinFoilHat

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Don't test any runoff...you're chasing a rabbit. Start over and either do organic from the start to finish or coco from start to finish. I know a lot of people love to "save" plants but by the time you recover them, you could already have new healthy plants bigger than that.
 
PurplePunch

PurplePunch

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Don't test any runoff...you're chasing a rabbit. Start over and either do organic from the start to finish or coco from start to finish. I know a lot of people love to "save" plants but by the time you recover them, you could already have new healthy plants bigger than that.
I disagree. Runoff numbers are science. It's only one puzzle piece, but it should at least be observed. If not, the same mistakes could be made. I once tested a failing plant and it was at 2500ppm! I knocked it down via flush and it recovered (somewhat).

I agree with you that aside from the learning experience, it's much easier to grow a new plant. Even when you remediate a failing plant (successfully), it still doesn't produce like a healthy plant (IMO).
 
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TinFoilHat

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I disagree. Runoff numbers are science. It's only one puzzle piece, but it should at least be observed. If not, the same mistakes could be made. I once tested a failing plant and it was at 2500ppm! I knocked it down via flush and it recovered (somewhat).

I agree with you that aside from the learning experience, it's much easier to grow a new plant. Even when you remediate a failing plant (successfully), it still doesn't produce like a healthy plant (IMO).

I just think it's easier to teach new growers to understand how feeding works with both synthetic and organic. Once they gain this knowledge, theyll never need to test runoff again. Within a few months I should have a guide out for coco step by step and may do a single plant bagged soil guide...just bought a house so just getting things together.
 
Peat_Phreak

Peat_Phreak

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Moving from coco to soil is where mistakes were made. The roots that are inside the coco aren't getting enough nutes. That's 20% of the root system. Pick one media and use it for the whole grow next time.
 
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Timf91

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Moving from coco to soil is where mistakes were made. The roots that are inside the coco aren't getting enough nutes. That's 20% of the root system. Pick one media and use it for the whole grow next time.
Would it be to late to repot them in coco?it's only been a few days, and the growth was stunted. Figured I could remove the coco with the root ball and swap back into a new pot
 
Blastfact

Blastfact

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Would it be to late to repot them in coco?it's only been a few days, and the growth was stunted. Figured I could remove the coco with the root ball and swap back into a new pot
For heaven sakes don't replant/transplant again. No reason for it. The plants at this point don't give two shits what the roots are in. There main issue is they are starving to death. And the media the roots are in at this point have nothing to do with that plain and simple fact. If these plants are photos, great! No time lost over the issue as far as the plants over all life cycle. Plenty of time to keep vegging and recover. If auto's,,, well they took a hit,,, but they can still recover and produce.
 
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Timf91

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For heaven sakes don't replant/transplant again. No reason for it. The plants at this point don't give two shits what the roots are in. There main issue is they are starving to death. And the media the roots are in at this point have nothing to do with that plain and simple fact. If these plants are photos, great! No time lost over the issue as far as the plants over all life cycle. Plenty of time to keep vegging and recover. If auto's,,, well they took a hit,,, but they can still recover and produce.
They are photos
 
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Timf91

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Good! Get the nutrients straighten out and move right on down the grow road. Don't make it anymore complicated than it needs to be. Have you fed them yet?
Not since I flushed yesterday. The soil is heavily saturated, I was going to give it a few days until I water more at least
 
Peat_Phreak

Peat_Phreak

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Would it be to late to repot them in coco?it's only been a few days, and the growth was stunted. Figured I could remove the coco with the root ball and swap back into a new pot
It wouldn't be too late. But you can probably make it work without a transplant.

I would do some foliar feeding in your situation. That is the fastest way to fix leaf issues. Especially when the roots and media are not performing well. I'd use 800ppm of a complete nute blend at 5.8 pH.

I also use this as a supplemental feeding in between drenches if the leaves are starting to show discoloration. It works fast. Minor issues can be sorted out with one application sometimes.
 
Blastfact

Blastfact

756
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Not since I flushed yesterday. The soil is heavily saturated, I was going to give it a few days until I water more at least
Not to be mean,,,, but they don't have a few days. The few leaves that are yellow are dead. All the lime green leaves are dying,,,, Life is leaving them. I would hope that your buckets have drain holes. If they do scrape the perlite off the top of your soil so the top of the soil can dry quicker and get them fed. It does the plant no good to dry out with nothing to feed on. With drainage and a fan moving air around the buckets they can deal better with being over watered if they have nutrients.
 
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Timf91

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Not to be mean,,,, but they don't have a few days. The few leaves that are yellow are dead. All the lime green leaves are dying,,,, Life is leaving them. I would hope that your buckets have drain holes. If they do scrape the perlite off the top of your soil so the top of the soil can dry quicker and get them fed. It does the plant no good to dry out with nothing to feed on. With drainage and a fan moving air around the buckets they can deal better with being over watered if they have nutrients.
I don't have a ppm meter yet, it should be delivered tomorrow or Wednesday or is that to long ? Yes I have drainage on them, I drilled a Ton of holes
 
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Timf91

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I feed them once and foliage feed them at night. They are still shriveling the lower leaves
 
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Timf91

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Lower leaves are still shriveled up and yellowing, but I'm seeing a return to top growth. First picture was a few days ago and 2nd one was today
 
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PurplePunch

PurplePunch

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Lower leaves are still shriveled up and yellowing, but I'm seeing a return to top growth. First picture was a few days ago and 2nd one was today
Not surprised at all. Now go back and review all the bad advice you got - especially how the plant will be dead in 2 days. šŸ¤£
 
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Timf91

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Not surprised at all. Now go back and review all the bad advice you got - especially how the plant will be dead in 2 days. šŸ¤£
But in still experiencing the bottom leaves yellowing ans clawing, while the top leave are Growing. Still means something is wrong correct?
 

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