need help!!! phosphoload trying the sog method

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FARM THIS

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hey all , ive been at this for a long time and i have all my nutes down to a science , but im gonna try the sog method and veg for only 6 days ....

my question here is should i still use my phosphoload ???? im up in the air about it not sure if it will damage to little of plants or not ?
well i hope some one here has done this method before and used p-load so i can get an idea . thanks in advance
 
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UrbanGorilla

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it's my opinion that no matter the size of the plant you can still use the same nutes. the plant will require the same nutes just being smaller you will notice the plant isnt useing as much water aka nutes as a full size plant. This being said to be safe i would use your same line and recipe maybe just start with a lower ppm than normle. let me know how it goes ^5:joint:
 
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FARM THIS

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hmmmm but how much p-load ?? obviously not as much as normal i would assume !well urban i guess we are gonna find out together on this one ! see you at work
 
motherlode

motherlode

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phosphaload is excellent for stopping stretch and increasing bud sites, however you do not want to use it the strength the bottle suggests (2-4 ml per liter). I have seen it ruin a crop by producing way more hairs then normal (harsh) with less crystal then that strain should have had in the end. Some people just don't listen - lol

1 tsp per 5 gallons (1ml per gallon) is more then enough to slow your stretch and increase your yield without sacrificing flavor or THC content

If running a recirc res I run it for 2 days followed by a flush for 1 and then resume normal nutes. you can use it at anytime between week 2-4. If its a 8-9 week strain I prefer to use it around day 17 and if 10 weeks or more around day 25, unless you need it sooner to stop your stretch.
 
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FARM THIS

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nice info motherlode ...
yah i have seen p-load ruin a crop first hand like 5yrs ago and since then i have always ran 200ml for 60 gal.i think it would normally ask for like 400ml or something outrageous . normally i run it on day 12 or 14 on 7 week flower but im thinking ill let it go a bit longer considering im gonna be trying the sog method ( first time for that ).im thinking ill use your 1ml per gal on them since they will be so small .

thanks motherlode for the input
 
S

smokestack23

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it's my opinion that no matter the size of the plant you can still use the same nutes. the plant will require the same nutes just being smaller you will notice the plant isnt useing as much water aka nutes as a full size plant. This being said to be safe i would use your same line and recipe maybe just start with a lower ppm than normle. let me know how it goes ^5:joint:

Yup yup. If you already have your nutes dialed for that strain, that shouldnt...SHOULDN'T change much. Use your normal ratios but maybe start em out at a diluted strength to see what they can handle.

Now..if you DON'T have that strain dialed in..or aren't getting the results you want with or don't have the phosphoload dialed in for that strain listen to Motherload. Seems to be some direct experience with the product there.

I don't have experience with that product but regardless of the product, if you're running the same strain that you're familiar with only doing it using a different method well yeah...same nutes they liked before will be what they like now...just less of em if the plants are smaller...maybe.

PEACE
 
motherlode

motherlode

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BTW - I find it highly disconcerting that this forum is so heavily moderated. Why not allow posts to go up straight away as is the case with all the good forums out there? Just intrigued???? It seems that if someone has an agenda the way to push that agenda is to censor and edit information.

only your first 5 posts are moderated - it keeps the spam bots at bay for the most part
 
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smokestack23

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Holy hijack batman..where is this thread going?

Motherfucker...sounds like some pretty serious stuff you're talking about. I obviously missed the thread.

Please excuse my ignorance...when you say Phosphoload..are you referring to a specific product (called phosphoload) or just any phosphoload formula?

I'm in Canada and dont wanna give myself cancer because of shitty Canadian ag laws.

Thanks in advance.
 
motherlode

motherlode

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OK that does make sense - my apologies. Motherlode a question: when you promote Alar for use in a short term decidious crop do you a) understand what it is you are promoting? and b)understand the chemistry and implications associated to alar use in a short term decidious crop?

Bottom line - it is now banned in Ca and Oregon (more to come I expect) and as I understand it Phosphoload is now banned in Canada (although I expect that through relabeling as "not for use in any consumable crop" and listing actives they may be able to get it back into this market due to lame Canadian Ag laws) and yet here you are promoting the use of Alar. Do you perhaps not stop to think that the Ca Ag Dep who employs PhDs may know a thing or two more than you?

I dont PROMOTE anything - and Im not complaigning it was taken off the shelves

what is your malfuntion?
 
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smokestack23

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Hmm..well..again..sorry for the hijack but thanks for the heads-up mofo. I'm not big on additives anyway...and...I believe in the high P myth..I mean believe that it's a myth.
I DO though use MOAB..well..homemade MOAB and just got the wife to pick me up some hammerhead in the city today.
I know that MOAB is very high in P but not all "useable". I figured though that it may be considered a type pf phosphoload..or phospholoadER so that's why I asked if you meant any high P nute or additive, or just specific ones.

In general though, I'm trying to steer more towards N and especially K load in all stages anyway...but (except for the Hammerhead) am trying to do it by just changing up my base nute ratios a bit.
I'm using "Holland Secret" base nutes. The Grow is 2-0-7 and the Micro is 5-1-2. Bloom is..whatever..high in P of course. These numbers are pretty similar to GH's #s. I'm never using full strength and I'm on a weekly schedule..meaning I change the base ratios weekly with res changes. I slightly reduce the "called-for" amount of the bloom and I slightly raise the amount of Grow..which is nice and high in K.
I'm evidently gonna get to finally try the Hammerhead (but res change was yesterday so not till next week I guess). I use the MOAB at week 1 and 6 of flower.

PEACE
 
motherlode

motherlode

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Haha. Malfunction? Like it! I don't malfunction my friend but I like it nevertheless. Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot.


perhaps we did - Hi Im ML - welcome to the farm!

I was only trying to give advice/observations based on what I have seen myself and others do in re: to using phosphaload so they dont really fuck themselves over because people are gonna do what people are gonna do

I personally have not used it in a long time and even when I did it was a small one time hit

by all means if it is labeled for ornamentals then I dont want it in what I smoke
 
motherlode

motherlode

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flower dragon

saw this on the shelf yesterday at the shop

seems like pload to me
 
A

aaxxeell

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simple, phosphoload contains PlantGrowthRegulators of which im unsure maybe chloromequat chloride c77a...
sog dosent need it unless u want to somehow tame supertall sativas if ur a mad scientist.

just use normal nutes on sog, bushmaster, phosphoload, flowerdragon etc all perform well at producing heavy small bushes, as you can veg 1 week longer, and flower 1week less!
essentially flip and add pgr nutes and plants halt vertically, with tight internodes, onset into flower FAST, slashing time off bloom phase and keep an even canopy...
good for many commercial growers rockin rooms or bigger full of 1k's

trust me just do base nutes and possibly pk... its all the nutrients u need for a good sog
imho plant numbers and even canopy and more grows per year are what makes sog's kick ass

:banana1sv6:
AX
 
Aerojoe

Aerojoe

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you should be fine using it that way, I know someone who does something similar but with smaller dosage because of early age. I don't personally use phosphoload though.
 
A

aaxxeell

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Its actually very simple. Phosphoload contains high levels of Daminozide and much lower levels of PBZ. The PBZ levels in fact may not be an issue but certainly the Daminozide levels are. It is a myth that PBZ is carcinogenic - it has never been shown to be carcinogenic - whereas Daminozide and certainly its by product UDMH are probably human carcinogens with other implications, praticularly to immuneosuppressed med users.

RE PBZ

PACLOBUTRAZOL


Paclobutrazol (CASRN 76738-62-0) is classed as a herbicide/pesticide PGR. Paclobutrazol is an S5 poison. Its use is prohibited in the EU. The WHO lists Paclobutrazol as “Moderately Hazardous”, while the US EPA lists it as “not classifiable as to human carcinogenicity” with:


“Substance Name — Paclobutrazol

This substance/agent has not undergone a complete evaluation and determination under US EPA's IRIS program for evidence of human carcinogenic potential. “



[End Quote]


Paclobutrazol is a triazole type plant growth retardant which blocks gibberellin biosynthesis and are involved in reducing abscisic acid, ethylene and indole-3-acetic acid while increasing cytokinin levels. It promotes fruit set in the states of inhibited development. It is also known that it protect plants against abiotic stresses.


In plain English (laymans terms) this means Paclobutrazol is a systemic growth regulator that reduces internode lengths of new shoots and causes earlier formation of terminal buds. It is used primarily as a plant growth regulator for turf grass, grapevines, trees (non fruit variety), and apple, stone fruit and mango trees. Paclobutrazol has reasonably long withholding periods (dependent on application rates and crop type). In some cases, control of growth may persist for more than one year. Typically, however, withholding periods are listed with registered Paclobutrazol products at between 20 and 40 days.


Paclobutrazol has been shown to be an environmental contaminant (Kathrin Reintjes et al 2006). In field situations, paclobutrazol is shown to have a half-life ranging from 3 to12 months (Lever 1986) or 12 to 18 months, although some have reported persistence as long as 3 years (Jacyna and Dodds, 1995). Some commercial greenhouse operations have had issues dealing with chemical residues.1

The persistence of Paclobutrazol in soil may result in contamination of nearby water bodies, thus presenting a possible hazard to human and animal health, and could also influence soil microbial activity with further effects on biodiversity.2

The hazards (if any) of using Paclobutrazol on a short-term deciduous crop that is consumed via combustion (i.e cannabis) are completely unknown.

1. Jessica Lynn Boldt (2008) WHOLE PLANT RESPONSE OF CHRYSANTHEMUM TO PACLOBUTRAZOL, CHLORMEQUAT CHLORIDE, AND (S)-ABSCISIC ACID AS A FUNCTION OF EXPOSURE TIME USING A SPLIT-ROOT SYSTEM
2. Sybille Neidhart, Anuwat Jaradrattanapaiboon, Kathrin Reintjes,Berit Jöns, Martin Leitenberger, Joachim Ingwersen, Gunnar Kahl, Pittaya Sruamsiri, Thilo Streck, and Reinhold Carl (2006) Which risks do result from the application of paclobutrazol in off-season mango production regarding residues in fruit and soil? First results of a long-term field study in northern Thailand

Keep an eye on where I will post FOIA from the CDFA (upon receiving it which I have been told I will) that shows the actives in these products (based on lab tests and not rumours that have circulated around forums and somehow become fact)


yeah thats good info motherF
however IMO Paclobutrazol has no influence on faster setting of fruit and heavier harvest, ive done a heap of research in the past and to my understanding its only desirable effect some people like is inhibiting vertical growth or stretch...
Chlormequat chloride however sets fruit faster and increases yield if used correctly and has been found in many nutrients and consequently have been banned as they were a secret pgr ingredient not printed on the label and also illegal in some countries.

IMHO from all the reports and threads ive read, phosphoload delivers what chlormequat chloride (cycocell77A) does

but im puzzled as most watchdogs are onto all the other companies and have canned the products using manufactured pgrs, so if phosphaload is still on the shelves gotta look at boosters like Triacontanol...
maybe we should be researching it as its a so called magic ingredient which can be left unlisted and kept under wraps as their secret ingredient in a booster nutrient.
Companies producing these "magic juices" can do so as its a natural substance which can be harvested and extracted from beeswax and alfalfa meal etc...
you will spot these products as they claim what the cooked up pgr's dont deliver, and thats larger yield + BETTER QUALITY
hmmm


sorry to ramble on this mad scientist stuff just interests the hell outta me
rock on :banana1sv6:
AX
 
hunie.beez

hunie.beez

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found this interesting entry that G.Low had written a few years back on another forum... makes you think...
Posted 30 December 2006 - 04:22 PM
I was involved in the 1st Superbud scandal that blew up on the net. My user name was G.Mahy and I was on Overgrow. My other name is G.Low. I am the author of a book called Integral Hydroponics (Now removed from the market). I just discovered this thread today and would like to add some input. It has taken me some time to find out the facts on what really went on in this expose' that blew up here and at OG (RIP), and Natures High (RIP).. BTW NH come back online - the med users need you. Times change guys and so do people. TNR and I acted outrageously and I suspect now having spoken to him in person he would agree. Respect guys and good luck with everything whereever you are...

As for Superbud containing Alar.... That one I don't know and won't enter into other to to say:

The Superbud scandal was mostly manufactured by industry interests who used people (including myself and Feral at natureshigh.com who I met after the scandal blew) to manufacture a scare campaign. Here's a link that gives a fair appraisal of Daminozide Alar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alar (The hype exceeds the reality!!)

In fact Superbud was the hydro industries Alar scare almost mirrored in the way the first scare broke in the eighties. Interest groups drove it through the mass media (Net) based on falling sales and for the most part it was distorted and sensationalised to achieve an agenda. This agenda was to get Superbud pulled from the market so other PGR peddlers et al could compete with a product that was killing them in the market, both in Australia and internationally.

While Alar was banned for use in any consumable crop in 1989, it was mostly done so for political and business reasons on the part of the manufacturers. In fact it takes substantial amounts of Alar to be harmful (although 60 Minutes CBS grandstanded/sensationalised the claim that Alar is a "potent" human carcinogen).
Again - I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of Alar. I did however disclose of OG that it contained 880 micrograms a ltr of Paclobutrazol. What I would say to the person who is claiming it contains Alar is to post your lab results - as was done with Paclobutrazol in 2003.

I myself am a destractor of PGR products - I'm on the record for this in Integral Hydroponics. I however can only speculate and my personal opinion is these products need to undergo testing to ensure that they are safe in any crop. Only then should they be made available to the market. So, my additive warning states that it is my opinion that these products may pose a risk to the end consumer.

The same people (or some of) that were behind setting Dutchmaster up in the Superbud scandal had prodded me to write this knowing I didn't support these products. I would learn later that these people had also been key players in creating the Superbud scare. Why go after one product when there were many more similar products?? Tha's the easy part.... They were losing money. Losing lots of money as Superbud was at one point the fastest selling additive in the market. These people are ruthless in their business practices and are also behind setting up other companies and members of the hydro industry. They have destroyed peoples lives and livelihoods (including my own).

I just wanted to jump in here and correct some things. I also want people to know that it isn't G.Low having a crack at Superbud again. This shit is old and I would think that a certain party I know has just disclosed the presence of Daminozide (Alar) in Superbud because the same industry interests (or one of particularly) that set up good people last time are now doing it again. I also suspect tha once again they are attempting to set me up and therefore I'll speak for myself. One of the same industry interests behind the Superbud scandal (other than being a psychopath) has been using people for quite some time in an attempt to bring DM down. BTW.... Gunnaknow, you know your stuff and also are close to the manufacturer of Rock Juice. Come out of the shadows son.....

Yes, DM did the wrong thing in that they put a product out that misled the consumers but then so do many oter manufacturers in the hydro industry. Why go after this product when 100's of other illegal products exist?? You be the judge.


I'll steer clear of actually talking about the product (what it does or doesn't do). I left the hydro industry some time ago. I pulled the book from the market. The whole damned shitfight left me ill... Take care all. G.Low has left the building....
 
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