Need Help To Id And Eradicate Multiple Pests In Hydro

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rickreveen

rickreveen

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I need help with my hydro garden. Answers geared to soil or other mediums (sand, diatomaceous earth etc) don't really apply. I need help specifically for Hydroponic. I need help with my hydro garden. I'm on a 3 week rotation. Cuts in turbo kloner to 4x4x4 rockwool cubes on a flood and drain table for veg and then into 1 of 3 ebb and flow bucket sets covered in hydroton for a total of 9 weeks in flower.

I began having some trouble with what I though were fungus gnats and used mosquito dunks in my rez (55 gal in size but running 40 galleons) and it seemed to help but not fix things. After harvesting that round of plants I noticed 2 things both bad. First yield was down...ALOT and the taste was not up to standard. I then stop using the dunks because of that and while it may be a coincidence in this case flavor did came back, but not yield. I decided that the yield being low was due to some lock out or deficiencies and what I was dealing with was a magnesium deficiency. I run several different strains and used the Botanicare full line of nutrient.


I have recently switch to the Advance Nutriments PH Perfect Grow Bloom Micro line and there was no difference in the plant troubles. For me veg would go fine and the plants look great and healthy. I’m still running the Botanicare in veg, CNS 17 Grow plus Cal-Mag, Karma, Sweet, and HyrdoGuard.

The trouble starts early in bloom generally between weeks 2 and 3 and it was almost like light shock. I flower under 1000 watt HPS and MH mixed and veg under HO florescent. Plants are very healthy throughout veg. After the move I start seeing yellowing of leaves where the leaf is papery, tan and then dead. Many other leaves start becoming more translucent and turn a light green. Then most of the larger fan leaves start to go yellow with the veins staying green before they turn completely banana yellow and fall off or hang tan dry and crispy until they are removed.

As I said I thought the problem was a magnesium deficiency and did all I could to address it. I always use RO water because I'm on a well and the water is not good at all. Somewhere in the 400- 600 ppm out of the well zero out of the RO. I added Epsom salts and misted with it as well, backed off on nutrient, changed ratios, changed nutrients, tried drip clean and more but nothing solved my deficiency.


I now have discovered what I think has been the problem all along.....root aphids, NOT fungus Gnats. I had an out break of “fungus gnats” and used the dunks and pest strips and a couple bug bombs and was left with few if any flying bugs and still to this day rarely see anything on my yellow traps. But I still have the same issues AND I keep finding what I though was fungus gnat larva in my rez. I figured the gnats were laying eggs in my medium and they were getting washed back to the rez where they hatched. They float around in packs and wiggle and jump around like lice or something Finally I saw what I think can only be a aphid and took a very close look at what I found sweeping up the floor and notice that the wings were much longer than gnats and the concluded I have aphids. Some winged and some not. So at this point I went through and got a sample of every pest I could find and did a video and pictures to post and ask for help to fix it. I think I may have gnats as well as the aphids but the “larva” I'm not sure of. Are they gnat larva, aphid larva, or as someone told me they are actually springtail and they are not bad but are in fact feeding on the bad guys.

I posted a video to you-tube it is about 7 1/2 minutes long made of short clips strung together with several views of the pests I have at different stages of development. And I have a bunch of close up stills as well. I need to banish these bastards from my garden and to do so I need to know what they all are and how to kill them.


It is very important that what ever I do doesn’t destroy the flavor profile of the plants and that I can use it in flower as I'm in perpetual harvest and have plants at all different phases of life from cuttings to flowers 6 weeks in.

ideas for a solutions to rid my garden of all these pests and maintain the quality of the plants. As I said when I used the dunks I had flavor issues. Has anyone used dunks and noticed bad flavor? Help me find my way past these pests and phantom lockouts back to a healthy garden.

Thanks to all! Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 2 Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 3 Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 4 Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 5 Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 6 Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 7 Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 8 Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 9 Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 10 Need help to id and eradicate multiple pests in hydro 11
 
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Full.Melt

Full.Melt

204
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those look like root aphids same bastards i am at war with now,but you have full grown adults.you have nymphs,flyers,adults pretty much the whole cycle of them.here's what is working for me so far sierra science sns 203,azamax,and root drenches in 120f degrees water.i know it sounds crazy but your plants will survive and most of them will die after a few minutes submerged.
 
Michal

Michal

31
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I don't think any of the pesticides that actually work are suitable for flower. Check the megathread on ICmag, there doesn't seem to be a similar one here.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I'll have to clean up your post, all the font code has made it a bit unreadable for me. Right now I'm going just off the photos. I see a soil bugular (the white long bugs) that I also see here often, in association with damp areas. I do not believe it is harmful.

The others I also believe are root aphids, in both larval and flyer form as Full.Melt suggests. I did not find relief using any other method than flooding for several hours with Triazicide, three days in a row. I eventually lost all those genetics but others are having better success. If you're able to heat up the entire grow area (look up kolah's thread on how he did it in his greenhouse) you may find some good, non-chemical relief.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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Ok, you're already six weeks into flower? In my opinion, all you can do here is stave them off at best, and only using the organic treatments. Even the triazicide's PHI is something like 7-21 days (it's been years since I've used it so I'm going off memory). I know of nothing that will not affect the flavor profile of the plants, including the heat treatments, since you're so far into flower.

Your description of the timeline fits root aphids perfectly.

Btw, and FYI--media doesn't make much of a difference with regard to treating these fuckers. Take all the advice you can get from anyone who's willing to share it, instead of filtering out based on growing method. ;)
 
souf69

souf69

747
143
Flowers six weeks in is to late imo. Cut em early cut your losses. Treat all your veg lightly with bayer tree and shrub every other day at half the bottles recommended dose for one week. If your in hydro, hand water them into your media. Change your res the next day if possible. Your plants need to absorb the imid to work on the ones sucking your roots dry. Then I'd suggest no pest strips from Lowes or depot, one for each plant for the fliers, plus sticky traps.
 
rickreveen

rickreveen

11
3
those look like root aphids same bastards i am at war with now,but you have full grown adults.you have nymphs,flyers,adults pretty much the whole cycle of them.here's what is working for me so far sierra science sns 203,azamax,and root drenches in 120f degrees water.i know it sounds crazy but your plants will survive and most of them will die after a few minutes submerged.

Thanks for the help. The hot water thing scares me to be honest but I may still try it on 1 or 2 plants. Could you share the dosages you used with the drench mixes and sprays you used?
 
rickreveen

rickreveen

11
3
I don't think any of the pesticides that actually work are suitable for flower. Check the megathread on ICmag, there doesn't seem to be a similar one here.
Thanks for looking in on me. Are you referring to the thread Fungus Gnats or Root Aphids? I looked and if it is it is outstanding info.
 
rickreveen

rickreveen

11
3
I'll have to clean up your post, all the font code has made it a bit unreadable for me. Right now I'm going just off the photos. I see a soil bugular (the white long bugs) that I also see here often, in association with damp areas. I do not believe it is harmful.

The others I also believe are root aphids, in both larval and flyer form as Full.Melt suggests. I did not find relief using any other method than flooding for several hours with Triazicide, three days in a row. I eventually lost all those genetics but others are having better success. If you're able to heat up the entire grow area (look up kolah's thread on how he did it in his greenhouse) you may find some good, non-chemical relief.

Thanks for the help and cleaning up my post. What dosage of Triazicide did you run in the rez? You also said you lost all your genetics, did you mean from treating them with the Triazicide or the bugs won anyway? I could heat treat as I'm in a sealed room with 6K so without the AC and light fans running things get well over 100 very quickly. For that matter I cold run the heat on top of that if neeb or I even have a propane heater I could run.

As far as what affect the flavor profile I agree that everything has an effect. What I'm after is the best kill to flavor/yield ratio I can find. Thoughs?

I also agree with your comments about not limiting myself to hydro only solutions. The main reason I said that was cuz as I searched around it was heavy leaning to the soil solutions that did not apply. I'm really hoping to use something added to my rez rather than spray the plants.

I'm off to search for the kolah thread you mention now. Thanks
 
rickreveen

rickreveen

11
3
Flowers six weeks in is to late imo. Cut em early cut your losses. Treat all your veg lightly with bayer tree and shrub every other day at half the bottles recommended dose for one week. If your in hydro, hand water them into your media. Change your res the next day if possible. Your plants need to absorb the imid to work on the ones sucking your roots dry. Then I'd suggest no pest strips from Lowes or depot, one for each plant for the fliers, plus sticky traps.


Hi and thanks for the reply. I did pick up a ton of NPS to hang everywhere and I have some of the bayer Tree and Shrub. My bottle say it is 0.74 IMID and 0.37 Clothianidin is that the same strength you used at half dose? And are you referring to the Containered plants dose ( 1 2/3 tablespoons per 5 gallons) rather than the tree or shrub dose?
 
souf69

souf69

747
143
I ran it at 3 ml a gallon, for two weeks, every third day or so. It has feed in, so hand water it in. Hydro should be changed a day after. I think it would kill more than aphids if you don't change your res. Imid is nicotine I think, not really sure if it kills good stuff in your res or not.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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That is correct, @souf69 -- imidacloprid is a neonicotinoid, which may end up being banned for sale altogether. Used outside it's problematic, indoors well controlled with zero run-off, I don't believe it's such a problem. But late in flower, it can't be used as you already well know.
Thanks for the help and cleaning up my post. What dosage of Triazicide did you run in the rez? You also said you lost all your genetics, did you mean from treating them with the Triazicide or the bugs won anyway?
Hi Rick. I used 30mls/gallon. The plants survived the treatments, and I actually got a crop off them. But the clones I'd taken never rooted, and the plants I flowered out completely petered out, no reveg, nothin'.

It's like the RAs suck the life force out of the plant.
As far as what affect the flavor profile I agree that everything has an effect. What I'm after is the best kill to flavor/yield ratio I can find. Thoughs?
It's *all* going to have a negative impact in my opinion. The only thing that may not is something like Capulator's beneficials, but they weren't available when I was battling those little fucks.

I forgot to mention, start adding aspirin to your watering/feeding/foliar regimen. 1-2 325mg tablets will do well here.

http://www.gardenguides.com/130337-aspirin-water-helps-plants.html
 
rickreveen

rickreveen

11
3
I'm running 40 - 50 gal in my rez so is 2 aspirin enough? The Triazicide I have is from Spectracide and contains 0.002 Lambda-Cyhalothrin do you recall if that is similar in strength to want you used? Thanks again.
 
souf69

souf69

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They really do fuqq everything up, as far as deficiencies go. It can be hard to tell what the hell's going on sometimes. The plant throws out so many signals, as it doesn't know how to react. I try to imagine being eatin from the inside out.
 
rickreveen

rickreveen

11
3
Agreed, tough to fix problems when all you see is are symptoms that look like they could be many different things. Thankfully we have identified the problem and I can go about rectifying the situation..

To that end my plan is to mix a 35 gallon bucket at 30 ml/gal of the tree and shrub and use the solution to flood my ebb n flow buckets from the top, allowing it to run back to the control bucket, then pumped to the rez in place of a regular watering cycle.

That way the the pots, lines, and rez will all get treated. I will leave it in the rez and allow it to flood and the pots a second time 24 hours later on their normal flood cycle.

After which I go to fresh R/O and 1/2 strength nutes for 3 days. Day 4 repeat the process with 3 ml/gal of Triazicide. Or is it best to stay with one product?

I am replacing all the lines as well just to be sure they don't have a bunch of bad mojo hiding in them. I'm sure they do. Also set off bug bombs and hang No Pest Strips everywhere.

Also I will finish the full on deep clean up of everything in the garden and lowering the RH as low as I can get it and raising the temp a bit to 85 of so. I could bring in CO2 to help the the plants beat the heat a little easier but I have to get the tank filled and set it up. No meter, just a valve and timer setup, not sure if it would help much or if my time was better spent staying on the cleanup/ disinfecting job and worry about CO2 later??

I will also add the aspirin and run the H2O2 constant for at least a month or so. I have been reading that alot of ppl are using bleach at 2 or 3 ml/gal in place of H2O2 in the rez as it is far cheaper and they say they get great results, Any thoughts on that?

I found this H2O2 application rate formula does it seem safe to run these levels or should it be more or less?

US Standard 1.28 x G/C = Liquid Oz's per day
Metric 10 x L/C = Ml per day
Where:
C = % concentration of H2O2
L = Number of liters in reservoir
G = Number of Gallons in reservoir
Example: How much 3% H202 should I add to 7 gallons of nutes? 1.28 x 7/3 = 2.986 Oz's each day.

Is there something I can add to help the damaged roots mend? Pond-Zyme maybe. If so I would like to help them if I could.

So for my treatment plan do the amounts, products, and rotation sound right or is there something I should add, change, or delete?

The hot water dunk scares me a bit so I may hold off on that. Altho I was thinking I could set a pot in my laundry tub and run hot water through it to wash out some aphids and maybe kill a few. I would need to set the water heater to 120 or so if I decide to try 1 or 2 correct?

Thanks again guys, it makes all the difference in the world to receive sound advice and guidance at a challenging time like this and I am grateful.
 
Michal

Michal

31
18
Unsure on the use of H2O2, recommendations vary greatly and I've no experience with hydro. Hopefully someone with experience can chime in.

Watch the NPS, I prefer to wear a mask when applying/removing. The active ingredient, dichlorvos, is not something to be treated lightly. Any area treated should not share air circulation with living/working areas.
 
rickreveen

rickreveen

11
3
Unsure on the use of H2O2, recommendations vary greatly and I've no experience with hydro. Hopefully someone with experience can chime in.

Watch the NPS, I prefer to wear a mask when applying/removing. The active ingredient, dichlorvos, is not something to be treated lightly. Any area treated should not share air circulation with living/working areas.

Wow really. I never paid them any mind thinking they were no big deal but after what you said I will read the label thoroughly and take note. I'm in seal room so that part is ok but I have to work in there. I hate wearing a respirator by I have one so I will if need be. Thanks
 
souf69

souf69

747
143
Don't worry bout a hot water dunk, or your co2. Apply at one ml a gallon, not thirty. Getting your lines full of this will not help much imo, the bugs must eat the imid to be effective. I don't believe spraying will help much, these are not regular bugs. They have a captain America shield or something! Lol, now back to biz. Hand water, wait for a day and empty your res. Don't worry about root repair as these ladies are at least two three a month away from rapid recovery
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
I'm running 40 - 50 gal in my rez so is 2 aspirin enough? The Triazicide I have is from Spectracide and contains 0.002 Lambda-Cyhalothrin do you recall if that is similar in strength to want you used? Thanks again.
Oops! Incomplete thought alert! 1-2 tablets PER GALLON. Sorry about that!

Spectracide is what I also used, I'd have to see if I can find the old bottle but it's an OTC product, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same product.

To that end my plan is to mix a 35 gallon bucket at 30 ml/gal of the tree and shrub and use the solution to flood my ebb n flow buckets from the top, allowing it to run back to the control bucket, then pumped to the rez in place of a regular watering cycle.

That way the the pots, lines, and rez will all get treated. I will leave it in the rez and allow it to flood and the pots a second time 24 hours later on their normal flood cycle.

After which I go to fresh R/O and 1/2 strength nutes for 3 days. Day 4 repeat the process with 3 ml/gal of Triazicide. Or is it best to stay with one product?

I am replacing all the lines as well just to be sure they don't have a bunch of bad mojo hiding in them. I'm sure they do. Also set off bug bombs and hang No Pest Strips everywhere.
I don't run hydro with watering lines, but I think this is a good plan. Also, know that the female fliers will hide in all manner of places. Behind electrical outlets, under pot lips, find a crack in the wall and they'll be in it. So definitely treating the ENTIRE area and fixtures is a must.

3ml/gal triazicide I believe is far, far too little. I went with 30mls/gal for the flood. I agree with alternating treatments, we must be *very* cognizant of causing resistance here. Imidacloprid is one other product that is known to work well, but I haven't heard of anyone finding good relief using the Bayer Tree & Shrub, most have had to go go Merit 75.
 
souf69

souf69

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143
Merit is crazy killer stuff, I've seen peoples genetics go to the waste baske, but a few had good results. The stuff Sea is referring to I have never used.
 
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