Neemazal And Derivatives Like Azamax Versus Neem Oil

  • Thread starter CrimsonEcho
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
CrimsonEcho

CrimsonEcho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
Hi farm,

I was recently reading up on insecticides, for fun :) and i realized, most of us have, to a degree, the wrong idea about neem oil and neem based products. We usually use the terms interchangeably as i noticed and don’t really realize or underline that they’re not the same thing and some of us rather use neem oil than an extract of it because, it feels more organic. Now without copy and paste i’ll say these.

1. Neem oil and insecticides that are derivative of “NeemAzal Technical” are in no way the same thing. First of all we have to address that Azamax is just “NeemAzal Technical” diluted and bottled by GH. This is on the product description on GH site. What is NeemAzal Technical? NeemAzal Technical is the result of a colloboration between Trifolio Gmbh of Germany and Parrys of India. NeemAzal Technical is a water based extract of neem seeds, which is designed to leave the oil behind and extract only the active ingredients. These ingredients include azadirachtin A-L, other azadirachtins and azadirachtinin. These compounds belong to the chemical group of “tetranortriterpenoids”. Just rolls of the tongue :D lets just call them limonoids :) are considered safe for mammals and benefical insects.

2. The water extraction and resulting seperation of oil to create NeemAzal Technical is a choice, rather than an unevitable drawback of trying to extract the most out these seeds. This choice was made to increase the safety of the end product. Neem oil itself contains a compound called Aflatoxin. This compound does serious damage to mammals, mainly to the liver. So this water based extraction process, while extracting most of the insecticidal compounds, tetratriterpenoids, leaves the oil itself behind. So the end product is pure as it can be.

3. Then NeemAzal Technical gets mixed with organic vegetable oil that is free of aflatoxin. And voila, you have Neemazal T/S or other derivatives like Azamax. These products are one of the safest insecticides you can use on your plants and can even be used in flowering, tho not ideal (partly because of the vegetable oil used to dilute the product). This is a delicate subject for most, i’m aware, and from all my research, i came to the conclusion that, azadirachtin based products can be sprayed a month prior to harvest and the end product would be free of azadirachtin. Also should be noted that NeemAzal T/S MSDS, environmental fate and withholding period datas suggest that it can be used 3 days prior to harvest. My one month safe period is based upon another related research conducted for Canadian Forest Services. In anycase my opinion is that the best way, is taking precautions rather than going into battle, facing your problems early on, in veg.

-Also it should not go unnoticed that the said study done for Canadian Forest Services; Uptake, translocation, persistence and fate of azadirachtin in aspen plants (Populus tremuloides Michx.) and its effect on pestiferous two-spotted spider mite (Tetranychus urticae Koch), definitively concludes that the azadirachtin compounds are taken in by the roots and gets deposited in the plant tissue (roots, leaves, stems in the order concentration in ug). Thus, a soil drench for application of NeemAzal is not a bad idea either. At this type of application however, the azadirachtin in the leaves linger more than 50 days, albeit in residual amounts so, the application time should be decided taking this into account-

So all in all, whether you’re battling with an infestation or just implementing your IPM schedule, its better to go with NeemAzal or a derivative of it, rather than neem oil which contains Aflatoxin or another neem extract made by using chemicals to get higher concentrations.

I wanted to share these with you good people because, CrimsonEcho cares about your health :D. If you have any researches or anything to add to further this thread, you’re welcome to contribute and if you have any objections to what i presented here, you can do that too :)

Happy growing.

http://www.trifolio-m.de/portfolio/neemazal-ts-2/
http://www.parryamerica.com/products/neemazal/
https://ecogrape.com/neemazal/
https://generalhydroponics.com/azamax/
https://essentialoils.co.za/neem-oil.htm
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/tetranortriterpenoid
 
CrimsonEcho

CrimsonEcho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
There is that bit about the endocrine disruption you spoke of before..... Do you know what the effects were? Gonadal atrophy or something right? I should probably just look it up lol. It’s not approved for cannabis up here in Canada, wonder if that’s why? Imma look it up :)
Yeah look it up and post it here :) i know azadirachtin listed as an endocrine disruptor in the EU. But i have to say, these warnings or classifications usually based on crazy doses applied directly to lab animals and not about residual amounts left in the leaves or flowers. But its always good to check and double check :)

Is it neem extracts or oils that are banned?
 
CrimsonEcho

CrimsonEcho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
There is that bit about the endocrine disruption you spoke of before..... Do you know what the effects were? Gonadal atrophy or something right? I should probably just look it up lol. It’s not approved for cannabis up here in Canada, wonder if that’s why? Imma look it up :)
Don’t know if there are other sources to get info on this but based on the info under these links it seems like azadirachtin is allowed in commercial agriculture. A product called Treeazin which is again a derivative of NeemAzal Technical. If they’re banning it on commercial cannabis farms, they’re just being assholes imo.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...s/cannabis-testing-pesticide-list-limits.html
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-can.../reevaluation-decision/2018/azadirachtin.html
http://pr-rp.hc-sc.gc.ca/ls-re/resu...=&p_status_reg=REGISTERED&p_searchexpdate=EXP
 
CrimsonEcho

CrimsonEcho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
No challengers??? I'm a little disappointed. I bet Crimson for the KO but nothing but crickets.;)

Wow! I forgot how long that montage was, its cool tho :D

But no KOs here in my opinion. All the information shared by me is just an attempt to help our fellow growers in some way and not some douchy, egocentric guy bragging about what he knows or thinks he knows. This is more about free sharing of info and learning from our collective mistakes, much like a university, without tuition.
 
3 balls

3 balls

I just think it's a really great post. I would vote it for a sticky in infirmary. You taking the time to research and put together such a solid, well presented, source of information is commendable!
Here's why- The black market is still larger than "legitimate", and goes untested. I have seen first hand, the imo unwarranted, ridiculous vilifying of Azamax lead people to say fuck it, there all bad for you I might as well use Avid or whatever's gonna really kill em.

OBVIOUSLY, cleanliness and responsible preventative practices are ideal but this isn't a perfect world.

So, thank you very much Crimson!
 
CrimsonEcho

CrimsonEcho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
I just think it's a really great post. I would vote it for a sticky in infirmary. You taking the time to research and put together such a solid, well presented, source of information is commendable!
Here's why- The black market is still larger than "legitimate", and goes untested. I have seen first hand, the imo unwarranted, ridiculous vilifying of Azamax lead people to say fuck it, there all bad for you I might as well use Avid or whatever's gonna really kill em.

OBVIOUSLY, cleanliness and responsible preventative practices are ideal but this isn't a perfect world.

So, thank you very much Crimson!
Thanks, no problem man. Thats my thinking to a degree. I mean people use unbelieveable shit on their plants which requires them to wear hazmat suits and all. Then they sell this product to people. Also there are home gardeners and newbies to indoor horticulture in general and they don’t know what to use, when to use. I was one of them so i did the research and posted for anyone to see, when i’ve collected the required data. There are many great growers and great people in general on the farm that does the same for me and all the other farmers. So, happy to be able to contribute :)

And yes prevention and cleanliness is the most important thing. A skill and a habit i lack somewhat. If you’re clean, organized and dont grow clones and/or take your plants outside of their cocoon (ie. taking them outside to water), its unlikely that you’ll get serious infestations (not impossible). But if such a situation occur, there are lots of important and effective tools under a growers belts and some of them are pretty safe imho.
 
CrimsonEcho

CrimsonEcho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
There is that bit about the endocrine disruption you spoke of before..... Do you know what the effects were? Gonadal atrophy or something right? I should probably just look it up lol. It’s not approved for cannabis up here in Canada, wonder if that’s why? Imma look it up :)
Did you find anything on the subject. I’m still curious to see if canada banned the oil or the extract and in either case, why?
 
P

PharmHand

As a licensed lp we aren’t allowed to use any neem products whatsoever. Insecticidal soap, a few different oil products( canola, garlic- but not neem). Potassium bicarbonate, bacterial and citric acid products for mildew. Super limited. But in my own personal medical garden I use azamax, I too feel like it’s one of the least harmful EFFECTIVE pesticides. I’m gonna look into getting the product you listed- it’s definitely the same company, all azamax bottles say parry’s on the label. From what I’ve read the chemistry of insects is very different from mammals so unlikely to affect humans in the same manner not sure why it’s not allowed for us. It’s approved for canna in most states so obviously been tested. Health Canada is super strict on what’s allowed to be used on cannabis which so effin hypocritical since all of our non organic food is laden with a laundry list of various pesticides. God forbid weed has ANYTHING harmful on it. I love the smell of azamax haha. Every time I spray my room smells like Indian food haha
 
CrimsonEcho

CrimsonEcho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
As a licensed lp we aren’t allowed to use any neem products whatsoever. Insecticidal soap, a few different oil products( canola, garlic- but not neem). Potassium bicarbonate, bacterial and citric acid products for mildew. Super limited. But in my own personal medical garden I use azamax, I too feel like it’s one of the least harmful EFFECTIVE pesticides. I’m gonna look into getting the product you listed- it’s definitely the same company, all azamax bottles say parry’s on the label. From what I’ve read the chemistry of insects is very different from mammals so unlikely to affect humans in the same manner not sure why it’s not allowed for us. It’s approved for canna in most states so obviously been tested. Health Canada is super strict on what’s allowed to be used on cannabis which so effin hypocritical since all of our non organic food is laden with a laundry list of various pesticides. God forbid weed has ANYTHING harmful on it. I love the smell of azamax haha. Every time I spray my room smells like Indian food haha

Fucking “regulations”. So after all they’re being assholes.

Are these the only ones you’re allowed to use then?
 
CrimsonEcho

CrimsonEcho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
Supporter
Yep that’s what we’re allowed to use
I wholeheartedly support strict regulation of pesticides but neem is one of the safest things you can use on your plants. They don’t allow it on cannabis but meanwhile they’re giving license to a NeemAzal product TreeAzin and i think they’re even restricting that products use to only trees and ornamentals. You Canadians should protest :D
 
Top Bottom