New to here , trying to make a small breeding company for some really fire genetics . Looking to get my hands on some old school strains to work with

[mancorn]

Seems like everyone wants to skip the growing a large sample size and selecting! Several times! Selecting seems to have gone out of the equation! Just two cents! Because it takes a lot of room and it takes a lot of time! And it takes a lot of work!

And cloning each one, flowering each one, and curing each one so you actually know that pretty bud, with awesome terps, that tested out at 30%, actually gets a fly high. Or maybe you’ll get lucky and all your dime buds are !

 

[Grownsince95]

I think @RoadKillSkunkHunt hit the nail on the head when he talked about credibility.

I also see plenty of "pollen chuckers" here on THCFarmer, myself included.

But I think most of us have never sold a single seed and never will. That's the main difference.

I just took a cruise through about 10 "reputable" seed bank/breeder websites. Want to know how many pics I found of their large scale breeding operations?

Only one. Humboldt. How come everyone else gets a pass?

Hopefully others on this thread can post links to prove me wrong but I suspect there's a lot of bullshitting going on in the seed business.

 

[Oldchucky]

I think @RoadKillSkunkHunt hit the nail on the head when he talked about credibility.

I also see plenty of "pollen chuckers" here on THCFarmer, myself included.

But I think most of us have never sold a single seed and never will. That's the main difference.

I just took a cruise through about 10 "reputable" seed bank/breeder websites. Want to know how many pics I found of their large scale breeding operations?

Only one. Humboldt. How come everyone else gets a pass?

Hopefully others on this thread can post links to prove me wrong but I suspect there's a lot of bullshitting going on in the seed business.

Yeah, fortunately most people just give them away on this site! Yeah, HSC shows you what true breeding really is! You trying to start up shit, Mancorn? I like it!

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

I think @RoadKillSkunkHunt hit the nail on the head when he talked about credibility.

I also see plenty of "pollen chuckers" here on THCFarmer, myself included.

But I think most of us have never sold a single seed and never will. That's the main difference.

I just took a cruise through about 10 "reputable" seed bank/breeder websites. Want to know how many pics I found of their large scale breeding operations?

Only one. Humboldt. How come everyone else gets a pass?

Hopefully others on this thread can post links to prove me wrong but I suspect there's a lot of bullshitting going on in the seed business.

You can check out GU's new greenhouse setup for Greenpoint Seeds. He's in the process of moving the operations from Colorado to Florida. Lots of space! Now when it comes to breeding? Many would call them pollen chuckers because the guys at GPS seem to cross everything with everything.

 

[Oldchucky]

You can check out GU's new greenhouse setup for Greenpoint Seeds. He's in the process of moving the operations from Colorado to Florida. Lots of space! Now when it comes to breeding? Many would call them pollen chuckers because the guys at GPS seem to cross everything with everything.

Yep! It seems to fit the definition of chucking! Maybe they figure that strain A that they are crossing with strain B Are the results of 100 strains that have been crossed over the last 10 or 20 years! Maybe they figure their predecessors did their selecting for them!

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Yep! It seems to fit the definition of chucking! Maybe they figure that strain A that they are crossing with strain B Are the results of 100 strains that have been crossed over the last 10 or 20 years! Maybe they figure their predecessors did their selecting for them!

It's hard to say what they are thinking ... I have grown a handful of their cultivars. I have had good luck with their stuff, all purchased at rock bottom prices through their reverse auctions.

 

[Leste]

It’s human nature to want to improve something.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Yep! It seems to fit the definition of chucking! Maybe they figure that strain A that they are crossing with strain B Are the results of 100 strains that have been crossed over the last 10 or 20 years! Maybe they figure their predecessors did their selecting for them!

I wonder if @LeekyFarmsgenetics is coming back? Guess we see ... His thread has taken off without him. LOL

 

[Oldchucky]

It’s human nature to want to improve something.

It’s also human nature to take shortcuts get something on the market with a fancy name and make money! Just because you’re cross two plants doesn’t mean you’ve improved anything! There are plenty of undesirable genetics as well as desirable genetics that can get pass on as well!

 

[Oldchucky]

I wonder if @LeekyFarmsgenetics is coming back? Guess we see ... His thread has taken off without him. LOL

Well, this is shit that he might not want to hear but needs to hear if he’s gonna make money off people! Well, I’ve pissed off every pollen chucker and wanna be breeder on the site! My work here is done! Time for a nap!

 

[Jmaes Mabley]

It took Bob Hemphill/Hannaboldt-Crickets and Cicada Seeds-4 years to test, and release, his first Puck crosses. Puck BC1- Nepali x Puck, Red Leb x Pacific Northwest Hashplant/NL1, Sensi Star, Skunk, and several others.

It took 8 years to create Destroyer.

 

[ATLien415]

do your own research,..
breeding is ruining marijuana period,.. just look at the last 30-40 yrs, all breeder weed just keeps getting worse and worse,.
like the potato famine or the banana pandemic etc etc,..
with all breeding,.. too gain something, than something has to be lost,.
what are choosing to breed out and than replace with what? and how can you control that?
thcp has literally disappeared because of breeding,..
really all breeding should be made illegal and left to a select few,.
again learn for yourself,..

You certainly make a good point. The only reason I opined is because OP did seem to take what you said in a derogatory sense. At the end of the day this is likely the most fun (and for many) the most important thing they do in their daily lives, he was trying to share something that objectively was a lot of man hours and effort. Regardless, that is his medicine and it looks like I'd twist some of it up. I personally know very few people who would meet a rigorous definition of a breeder...and for most a 'pollen chucker' is nothing to be ashamed of, in fact it is usually not a derogatory term IMO. Just the context seemed so.

I personally agree with this point from you to the core. It is not hard to imagine a world where the black market nature of cannabis impacted selective breeding to the extent that (just hypothetically) we COULD have lost a miracle cannabinoid from the gene pool already, and that certainly is a trend that is going to be hard to pump the brakes on.

My counterpoint to that stance is that landraces do not exist anymore but in theory. The seedbanks that sell landraces, well they gave away big bud and cheese and stuff when they were grabbing up the landraces... Now you have the original places where landraces grow, for economical and logical reasons, not stewarding the landraces as they were (or weren't). There are some really good vendors who do good landrace work for my standards, like the khalifa folks or old world energetic. Even their cuts are adulterated to an extent though.

Seems like everyone wants to skip the growing a large sample size and selecting! Several times! Selecting seems to have gone out of the equation! Just two cents! Because it takes a lot of room and it takes a lot of time! And it takes a lot of work!

Define a large sample size? Mathematically, as I stated above, you can get legally/logically/IP-wise defendable maths for this formally on paper when breeding technically for as low as n = 20. I'm not saying that is a good heuristic or anything, just stating the math. Of course for someone actually pursuing a unicorn, we'd all love to have a dozen greenhouse partner sites with the exact same setup floor to ceiling with n = 1000 at each site, access to rapid on-site testing, and so forth. The nuance is the n = 20 is pursuing a formal TPP, not just blindly chucking for a unicorn.

 

[Oldchucky]

Your points are well taken! I just think that if you are looking to perpetuate the desirable features and lesson the undesirable features you need to hunt! And the law of averages and statistics comes into play! So the larger sample size the better! Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with chucking as long as you don’t try and sell it! Then you’re getting into ethics! Chuck away, as long as you’re not chucking pollen all over the neighborhood! I guess it is also referred to as stabilizing!

 

[mancorn]

Chuck away, as long as you’re not chucking pollen all over the neighborhood!

On my first grow (back in the late 70’s) I didn’t know there were male & female plants. But I had a good spot and the plants were growing nicely and were good size. I remember shaking the hell out of the males thinking WTF is all this shit - doesn’t look like what I’m smoking. I must have pollenated for miles around. And this was in an area in CA where everyone was growing weed at the time. So when you find a couple seeds in your bud come harvest time, it’s probably the teenager down the hill.

 

[Oldchucky]

On my first grow (back in the late 70’s) I didn’t know there were male & female plants. But I had a good spot and the plants were growing nicely and were good size. I remember shaking the hell out of the males thinking WTF is all this shit - doesn’t look like what I’m smoking. I must have pollenated for miles around. And this was in an area in CA where everyone was growing weed at the time. So when you find a couple seeds in your bud come harvest time, it’s probably the teenager down the hill.

So it was you!!! all of these years. I’ve been looking for you!

 

[ATLien415]

Your points are well taken! I just think that if you are looking to perpetuate the desirable features and lesson the undesirable features you need to hunt! And the law of averages and statistics comes into play! So the larger sample size the better! Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with chucking as long as you don’t try and sell it! Then you’re getting into ethics! Chuck away, as long as you’re not chucking pollen all over the neighborhood! I guess it is also referred to as stabilizing!

Understood. My personal pet peeve is the folks who pop, buy, steal, "locate" cuts and just do sloppy S1 jobs then release them to the public. My personal beacon of hope in the industry though is these new drift correcting mechanism...it needs real exploration before committing, but we may be able to course-correct a fair bit with genetic methods.

I was always told around 30s before you can defer to large numbers, so the 20 doesn't meet that bar. lol

 

[Leste]

So it was you!!! all of these years. I’ve been looking for you!

Funny story, you just reminded me. A friend of mine burned up the family house. Put oil on to fry some shrimp. Got a phone call, forgot about the oil on the stove, took a shower . Came out and the kitchen was on fire, flames out the window, up into the eaves. Real fucked up. He ran out of the house in his underwear, tried to flag down a car. The guy laughed at him and drove off. Flash forward 10 years. We are at another friends house playing cards. Another comes in, says “ I temper once going down the road and a crazy man in his underwear tried to stop me”. He laughed. My friend who burned down the house jumps up and points, it was you who drove off when I needed someone to call the fire department.you just reminded me. Very tense, I laughed my ass off.

 

[cannafarmer420]

I don't agree that, "proper breeding takes 3-6 years to do it right, otherwise your just a pollen chucker." I disagree with that timeline. A breeding project should have a goal, for most projects that is homogeny. I agree that a typical route in the past has taken years. I also agree that the true agricultural-tek F1 hybrids should take at least 5 years to even be close to being done.

How do you arrive at the conclusion we should only be breeding with landraces, when in theory, landraces do not exist in a vacuum any longer? During the past 20-30 years, I don't even think 0.01% of cannabis breeders truly understood the botanical implications of geno/pheno/chemo types or the definitions of a varietal or cultivar. There are a handful of folks that do apply these types of standards with rigor though - my point being that, these folks, they are the modern breeders, not the folks who just happened to fall into good cuts in years past. Not shaking a stick at them, they were the cutting edge of cultivation too - just not now.

With both the flavenoid topic and drift/etc. correction by a plethora of means becoming more clear every day

If you are breeding formally (on paper, to be audited or reviewed or to be used in litigation) you treat it as a mix between pharmaceuticals and botany. You'd use a Target-Product Profile to define your goal, then Robertson-Price maths to move forward based on your sample size. You can make a defendable argument that stands up to scrutiny (math scrutiny, not opinion scrutiny) even with a sample size of 20 or so...

A wave takes 6-9 months. There are a ton of concurrent steps and feedbacks into the rest of the process but you can turn over this entire process many times in 3-6 years. IMO, the two things that would make it take longer would be stress testing (if thorough) and/or low resources (hands/space/etc.).

I'm with gnick, your a pollen checker, absolutely useless seeds IMO. Stick around, learn something and properly breed. You seem like the type to pollen chuck for a quick buck

 

[amneziaHaze]

I'm with gnick, your a pollen checker, absolutely useless seeds IMO. Stick around, learn something and properly breed. You seem like the type to pollen chuck for a quick buck

Come on most of the big companies sell seeds with 4 phenotypes where is the homogeny there

 

[ATLien415]

I'm with gnick, your a pollen checker, absolutely useless seeds IMO. Stick around, learn something and properly breed. You seem like the type to pollen chuck for a quick buck

The comment you replied to, is in fact, the 'proper breeding' you refer to. Predefined goals, quantitative homogeny, required targets, target profiles, and more. You can have opinions on what "proper" means (to you) but the mathematics clearly show there are reasonable breeding projects which contradict your opinions of timelines required and genetic gate-keeping. The point is that the original poster seemed to take offense to the term pollen chucker. Most of us are pollen chuckers, but not in any derogatory sense. He is just as legit as half the companies these folks flock to nowadays.

Sheesh. If he did a single real stress test, or hunted by actually finishing to cured flower, then he'd be de facto better than half the companies around right now. We can be positive and turn this thread into a discussion of what proper breeding means to different folks.

I think the issue people had with OP was that he didn't touch on his role in the genetic gravity well that we are heading towards thanks to prohibition and the market forces not understanding the plant. At the end of the day, if he is telling the truth about having guided that plant to F4 - why would you want to be so reductive about his time and effort? That takes real stewardship and is the same type of work that kept the real dank around during prohibition.