Newbie Coco grow fail - please help!

  • Thread starter MrFatGangster
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
M

MrFatGangster

29
13
Hello,

My name is Mike.

I made a critical mistake by not buffering coco after washing it and now believe I’m facing the repercussions of that. I heard of washing it, but found out about buffering with high strength cal mag solution, and how crucial it is for the cation exchanges AFTER I already planted… So it’s a bit too late for the double buffer at this point.

I transferred germinated seedlings from a wet paper towel to a small cup of coco/perlite with holes drilled all over sides and bottom, watered with 6.2 ph and left with humidity dome on top of cup, shortly after 1st set of true leaves grew they begin to yellow and eventually rust out. Watered daily with about 20%-50% runoff until second set of true leaves grew, thats when I started small dose of nutrients and cal mag. Using general hydroponics: 2ml cal mag, 2ml micro 4ml bloom every other day.

They’re still growing very slowly but I mean these poor plants are so miniature compared to what I see everywhere else. They’re just about a month old and are barely 4 inches tall and still small enough for a small plastic cup. Roots are not developing like most others seen in the community. I can tell because they’re planted in clear ventilated plastic cups and you can hardly see any of the roots, maybe a few very thin roots on sides and bottom.

I started 2 other seedlings thinking I must’ve been over watering so I watered very precisely using a food scale to monitor weight of plant before and after watering, ensuring to only add 30ml of 6.2 ph water every other day and allowing for that 30ml to be absorbed or evaporated. But now that they’re developing their first sets of true leaves, their running into the very same issue!

I’ve been foliar feeding 4ml cal mag/gallon of water at 6.3 ph just as lights go out to help with cal mag deficiency noted by the small brown spots on leaves. That has only been a few days, but no change in the deficiency at all. Started to foliar feed the younger ones that are just starting to go through the same issues as the originals to hopefully not run into such extreme issues that I have now, but I have little to no hopes on the cal mag foliar spray helping. Seems to be a waste time.

I’ve attached pictures of the plants growing from August 5th of this year (2022) and the various progress to August 28th of this year (2022). You can see the older ones progressively get worse. The leaves that are affected by cal deficiency also appear to have acute Nitrogen toxicity with how they claw down and how dark they are. Newer leaves not yet affected by cal deficiency are also not dark green either. I believe these little ones are fighters because they haven’t perished yet.

I know someone suggested to cut my losses and just start over but I’m having a hard time doing that because it’s been a month already, and time goes on regardless. I completely understand that my yields will be pitiful, but I’d like to say I made it from start to finish at the very least! I will definitely start a new batch of seedlings in buffered coco going forward to avoid such catastrophes, but I was really hoping to find a solution on helping these poor girls make it.

Any information that you have that can help would be hugely appreciated as I am a first time grower and I’m already failing.

- Mike.
 
Newbie coco grow fail   please help
Newbie coco grow fail   please help 2
Newbie coco grow fail   please help 3
Newbie coco grow fail   please help 4
Newbie coco grow fail   please help 5
Newbie coco grow fail   please help 6
Newbie coco grow fail   please help 7
Newbie coco grow fail   please help 8
Newbie coco grow fail   please help 9
Newbie coco grow fail   please help 10
Deadstill

Deadstill

I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
Supporter
2,168
263
Howdy and welcome to the Farm! 🤠

First of all, you have not failed until every plant has died. So don't call yourself a failure before you've actually failed!

Second, exactly what kind of coco mix are you using?

Third, are you allowing the mix to dry out a little bit in between watering/feeding? You don't want coco to go completely dry, but you don't want to keep it saturated 24/7, either. Roots need oxygen!

Last question, are you sure you're not overdosing on cal-mag? I sort of read this quickly but it sounds like you're using way more cal-mag than is required especially for seedlings.

Also, why you using bloom nutes on seedlings? Is it just for lack of something better? I'd get some good veg nutes to start with..

Check this whole thread and study the charts within - https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/t...r-making-nutrient-deficiency-diagnoses.60485/

Those charts will save you tons of time and money^^^

What exactly is your watering/feeding schedule and technique? I see a lot of people who are having these sorts of problems, are also "measuring out" exact measurements of water/food and not just soaking the pots completely and allowing them to dry out a little. I have never, not even once, given a plant a "ration" of water or food. When I go to water or feed my plants, I put in as much as it takes to completely saturate the pot. That might be 2 gallons one day, and 5 the next time, it's never the same. But a good portion of problems happen when people start measuring out rations of water and not fully saturating the pots. What happens then, is you end up with wet and dry spots in the soil/coco/whatever. The wet spots harbor pathogens and cause root rot or other issues, and the dry spots do absolutely no good for producing new roots.

Don't worry, Mike! We'll help ya get on the right track in no time!

🤠
 
PK1

PK1

Supporter
3,459
263
i would say you can still save those seedlings and the problem you are having is due to your ph. 6.2 is not meant for coco. Plant obsorbation for coco is just like hydroponic which is between 5.5 to 5.9

Here is a better picture to understand soil vs hydroponic ph range. Just run enough water from top until the waste water is the same as your input and the girls will start thriving in few days. make sure the ph is 5.5 and feed them half of what the schedule is showing.
Ph nutrient


Here is a collection of top links on this website that will help you understand growing better.
You also want to read what @Aqua Man has to say about coco preparation, feeding and other sort of benefecial informations.
 
Last edited:
Deadstill

Deadstill

I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
Supporter
2,168
263
Yeah I was going to point that out after I heard back from him, but I would drop that pH to about 5.8, as well.
 
M

MrFatGangster

29
13
Howdy and welcome to the Farm! 🤠

First of all, you have not failed until every plant has died. So don't call yourself a failure before you've actually failed!

Second, exactly what kind of coco mix are you using?

Third, are you allowing the mix to dry out a little bit in between watering/feeding? You don't want coco to go completely dry, but you don't want to keep it saturated 24/7, either. Roots need oxygen!

Last question, are you sure you're not overdosing on cal-mag? I sort of read this quickly but it sounds like you're using way more cal-mag than is required especially for seedlings.

Also, why you using bloom nutes on seedlings? Is it just for lack of something better? I'd get some good veg nutes to start with..

Check this whole thread and study the charts within - https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/t...r-making-nutrient-deficiency-diagnoses.60485/

Those charts will save you tons of time and money^^^

What exactly is your watering/feeding schedule and technique? I see a lot of people who are having these sorts of problems, are also "measuring out" exact measurements of water/food and not just soaking the pots completely and allowing them to dry out a little. I have never, not even once, given a plant a "ration" of water or food. When I go to water or feed my plants, I put in as much as it takes to completely saturate the pot. That might be 2 gallons one day, and 5 the next time, it's never the same. But a good portion of problems happen when people start measuring out rations of water and not fully saturating the pots. What happens then, is you end up with wet and dry spots in the soil/coco/whatever. The wet spots harbor pathogens and cause root rot or other issues, and the dry spots do absolutely no good for producing new roots.

Don't worry, Mike! We'll help ya get on the right track in no time!

🤠
Thank you Deadstill for getting back to me so quickly!



I’m using a 50/50 coco coir/perlite mix. The coco coir brick was purchased from the garden section from Home-depot. Burpee organic brand.



Before I switched to monitoring how much water was going in, the coco would be almost dry but not completely, best comparison is like a sponge that has been squeezed to the point of only a few drops coming out. But when I switched to feeding specific amount of water the coco coir would be just about dry, which I’m seeing is a big no-no!



I’m not entirely sure that I’m not overdosing the cal mag at this point I’m still scratching my head at it. Both older plants are showing signs of cal deficiency with those brown spots but I could certainly be wrong! A popular guide on YouTube suggests 2ml of cal mag per gal of water at each feeding along with the other general hydroponics flora series after the first week to help with the fact that coco drains or locks those nutrients.



I do have floraGro as well (all 3: floraMicro, Gro, Bloom) I just heard that the Lucas method of eliminating floraGro and and upping the other 2 was good for ppm. I was at 2ml cal mag 2ml micro 4ml bloom at being a week old. Then upped to 3ml cal mag 3ml micro 6ml bloom for a couple weeks I’m almost at the point where he’s suggesting 4ml cal mag 4ml micro 8ml bloom. I can certainly go to using all 3 in conjunction to cal mag if you think that’s a better idea? So it would be 1 Week old - 2ml cal mag 1ml micro 1ml gro .5ml bloom then progressively add more nutrients but keep cal mag at 2ml/gal?



When I water the plants I use the same syringe I used to measure out the nutrients to be mixed but heavily rinsed before used. I slowly push and swirl all around the plants getting the edges of the cup and close to the stem.



I will start off by cutting out the measurements and water them until fully watered with runoff again and allow to “dry” out.



If the cups are staying wet for more than a day is that okay? My very first watering of these older plants stayed wet for 72 hours before feeling like the damp sponge I was talking about earlier.



Thanks again for making me feel welcomed!
 
M

MrFatGangster

29
13
i would say you can still save those seedlings and the problem you are having is due to your ph. 6.2 is not meant for coco. Plant obsorbation for coco is just like hydroponic which is between 5.5 to 5.9

Here is a better picture to understand soil vs hydroponic ph range. Just run enough water from top until the waste water is the same as your input and the girls will start thriving in few days. make sure the ph is 5.5 and feed them half of what the schedule is showing.
View attachment 1275987

Here is a collection of top links on this website that will help you understand growing better.
You also want to read what @Aqua Man has to say about coco preparation, feeding and other sort of benefecial informations.
Wow thank you PK1 with your help as well!

All the charts that you and Deadstill sent are a game changer for me!

Once I get home, that is what I will do, rinse until 5.5-5.9 range. I’ll go ahead and follow all of you, as you’ve been extremely helpful 🙏
 
M

MrFatGangster

29
13
Yeah I was going to point that out after I heard back from him, but I would drop that pH to about 5.8, as well.
Thanks again for your help! I responded to both of you helping me out but it says “waiting moderator approval” I hope you get this and don’t think I’m being a snob!!
 
Habosabin

Habosabin

1,198
263
They looked like they’ve grown up in saturated conditions to me as well Which makes no sense to me because it’s coco. I lost a few seedlings from wet roots in my rockwool[drainage was bad]and they looked similar.
 
Habosabin

Habosabin

1,198
263
i would say you can still save those seedlings and the problem you are having is due to your ph. 6.2 is not meant for coco. Plant obsorbation for coco is just like hydroponic which is between 5.5 to 5.9

Here is a better picture to understand soil vs hydroponic ph range. Just run enough water from top until the waste water is the same as your input and the girls will start thriving in few days. make sure the ph is 5.5 and feed them half of what the schedule is showing.
View attachment 1275987

Here is a collection of top links on this website that will help you understand growing better.
You also want to read what @Aqua Man has to say about coco preparation, feeding and other sort of benefecial informations.
PK. Is best practice for hydro to ph to 5.5 and let it creep up to 6.1 then correct again so the roots get full exposure? In the past I ph’d to the middle.
 
Deadstill

Deadstill

I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
Supporter
2,168
263
If the cups are staying wet for more than a day is that okay? My very first watering of these older plants stayed wet for 72 hours before feeling like the damp sponge I was talking about earlier.

Yeah, that's fine. As the plant develops more roots and things start to balance out, you'll notice the pots will dry out a lot faster. When you get to the point where it completely dries out like overnight after watering, you'll know it's time to transplant to a bigger pot.

They looked like they’ve grown up in saturated conditions to me as well Which makes no sense to me because it’s coco. I lost a few seedlings from wet roots in my rockwool[drainage was bad]and they looked similar.
I think that's part of the issue, but lack of Nitrogen and possible lockout of others is probably the main problem.

Also, may want to drop those nutes to half of what you were feeding, seedlings that small won't need much at all even in coco, until they're about twice that size.
 
M

MrFatGangster

29
13
They looked like they’ve grown up in saturated conditions to me as well Which makes no sense to me because it’s coco. I lost a few seedlings from wet roots in my rockwool[drainage was bad]and they looked similar.
Hello Habosabin,

Yes, at the very beginning the first couple waterings took a while to drain out so I poked about 35 holes in each cup towards the bottom and underneath to help drainage. Now it seems to have better drainage.
 
M

MrFatGangster

29
13
i would say you can still save those seedlings and the problem you are having is due to your ph. 6.2 is not meant for coco. Plant obsorbation for coco is just like hydroponic which is between 5.5 to 5.9

Here is a better picture to understand soil vs hydroponic ph range. Just run enough water from top until the waste water is the same as your input and the girls will start thriving in few days. make sure the ph is 5.5 and feed them half of what the schedule is showing.
View attachment 1275987

Here is a collection of top links on this website that will help you understand growing better.
You also want to read what @Aqua Man has to say about coco preparation, feeding and other sort of benefecial informations.
Feel free to look at some of the coco growers journals and read. You can pick alot from their mistakes to make your growing experince better.
Thanks for your recommendation, I’ll check out all the info I can.

I flushed one of my plants so far since I got home with 2 gallons of water only at 5.8 ph and the run of is still at 6.5 ph! The ppm is down to under 50 though. I’ll try flushing again before I put them to bed at 5.5 ph to achieve a lower run off but that’s only .2 difference to make up for a whole 1.0 difference.
 
M

MrFatGangster

29
13
i would say you can still save those seedlings and the problem you are having is due to your ph. 6.2 is not meant for coco. Plant obsorbation for coco is just like hydroponic which is between 5.5 to 5.9

Here is a better picture to understand soil vs hydroponic ph range. Just run enough water from top until the waste water is the same as your input and the girls will start thriving in few days. make sure the ph is 5.5 and feed them half of what the schedule is showing.
View attachment 1275987

Here is a collection of top links on this website that will help you understand growing better.
You also want to read what @Aqua Man has to say about coco preparation, feeding and other sort of benefecial informations.
I checked out that link and I’m going to continue watering at 5.5-5.8 and hopefully the run off comes down but looks like there are some people in that link saying that you definitely should have the runoff ph on your “radar” but not necessarily have to go too crazy trying to achieve the exact same ph in the run off. Which is funny because I was literally going crazy pouring 2 gallons of water waiting for it to drain and collect and test both ph and ppm.

My first runoff at 5.8 ph IN had a runoff ppm of 350 but after 2 gallons IN the runoff ppm is under 50 at 6.5 ph.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom