Nitrogen toxicity in meph autos from plain FFOF

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Aqua Man

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So would you say this is not the beginnings of nitrogen toxicity?

But instead likely multiple factors such as my watering habits and vpd causing the dark green color and slight clawing/drooping?
It's tox but it's from an increase in uptake. Reduce lights to 18/6 give some pruning and try to keep a bit closer to VPD as increasing transpiration rates will increase nutrient uptake as I expllain in the VPD post. You can kinda steer nutrient uptake with VPD.
 
PalMcGuy

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It's tox but it's from an increase in uptake. Reduce lights to 18/6 give some pruning and try to keep a bit closer to VPD as increasing transpiration rates will increase nutrient uptake as I expllain in the VPD post. You can kinda steer nutrient uptake with VPD.
That makes absolute total sense and ill 100% give it a try.

I will also be 100% and say that between the first comments here and the recommendations i was given on the Mephhead subreddit i was spooked an flushed two plants my Chem De La Chem and my Double Grape.

Had quite literally finished running 9 gallons through both pots minutes before your reply to this thread, i wish i could take it back after having you talk to me some about this

But since ive done it anyways would you mind telling me if that should affect how i should go forward with the advice youve given me?
 
Aqua Man

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That makes absolute total sense and ill 100% give it a try.

I will also be 100% and say that between the first comments here and the recommendations i was given on the Mephhead subreddit i was spooked an flushed two plants my Chem De La Chem and my Double Grape.

Had quite literally finished running 9 gallons through both pots minutes before your reply to this thread, i wish i could take it back after having you talk to me some about this

But since ive done it anyways would you mind telling me if that should affect how i should go forward with the advice youve given me?
If you have synthetic nutrients I'd give like a 1/8 recommended dose only once. Or organically DERIVED as both will be immediately available for uptake. Stuff like worm castings or amendments will not.

The flush will have hurt the microbes and washed alot of the available nutrients out if the soil so if you have a microbe supplement now would be the time to add it.

If you don't have then reduce the light a lot for a 3-5 days this will reduce the nutrient demands on the plant and prevent you from getting deficiencies. Until the soil can recharge on nutrients
 
PalMcGuy

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If you have synthetic nutrients I'd give like a 1/8 recommended dose only once. Or organically DERIVED as both will be immediately available for uptake. Stuff like worm castings or amendments will not.

The flush will have hurt the microbes and washed alot of the available nutrients out if the soil so if you have a microbe supplement now would be the time to add it.

If you don't have then reduce the light a lot for a 3-5 days this will reduce the nutrient demands on the plant and prevent you from getting deficiencies. Until the soil can recharge on nutrients
I do have FF trio on hand, no need to wait for it to dry prior to adding, just go ahead and hit it now with the 1/8th dose of Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom? since my Double Grape is obviously in flower and my CDLC is entering it shortly/already in it i mean

And along with the 18/6 schedule should i change my brightness at all or just my light cycle?

Should i just give the 1/8th dose and continue using only water when needed until i see signs from the plant that it is in need of the nutrients? Just trying to clarifying what you mean by "only once"

I have also went ahead and gotten my humidifier set up again and im setting alarms for lights on/off since i have no controller.

I am eternally thankful for your patience time effort and knowledge btw, i very much appreciate it and will be sure to update good or bad. Sorry for blasting you with so many questions by the way its definitely difficult to find someone trustworthy that isnt just a random fella throwing out bro science.

Thank you again for everything
 
PalMcGuy

PalMcGuy

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If you have synthetic nutrients I'd give like a 1/8 recommended dose only once. Or organically DERIVED as both will be immediately available for uptake. Stuff like worm castings or amendments will not.

The flush will have hurt the microbes and washed alot of the available nutrients out if the soil so if you have a microbe supplement now would be the time to add it.

If you don't have then reduce the light a lot for a 3-5 days this will reduce the nutrient demands on the plant and prevent you from getting deficiencies. Until the soil can recharge on nutrients
I do have FF trio on hand, no need to wait for it to dry prior to adding, just go ahead and hit it with the 1/8th dose now yeah? Both Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom since my Double Grape is obviously in flower?


I just want to be doubly sure as Tiger Bloom is 2% total nitrogen

Also could you clarify what you mean when you say "only once" ?

Should i not treat my flushed soil just the same as i would any FFOF soil that had been naturally depleted over time and supplement with nutes?

Or should i give the 1/8th dose and continue using only water when needed until i see signs from the plant that it is in need of the nutrients?

I am eternally thankful for your patience time effort and knowledge btw, i very much appreciate it and will be sure to update good or bad.

I have also went ahead and gotten my humidifier set up again and im setting alarms for lights on/off since i have no controller.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I do have FF trio on hand, no need to wait for it to dry prior to adding, just go ahead and hit it with the 1/8th dose now yeah? Both Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom since my Double Grape is obviously in flower?


I just want to be doubly sure as Tiger Bloom is 2% total nitrogen

Also could you clarify what you mean when you say "only once" ?

Should i not treat my flushed soil just the same as i would any FFOF soil that had been naturally depleted over time and supplement with nutes?

Or should i give the 1/8th dose and continue using only water when needed until i see signs from the plant that it is in need of the nutrients?

I am eternally thankful for your patience time effort and knowledge btw, i very much appreciate it and will be sure to update good or bad.

I have also went ahead and gotten my humidifier set up again and im setting alarms for lights on/off since i have no controller.
You already soaked em so I would mix up 1/8 of the full recommended nutes enough to feed 1x times the pot volume each. This will give a low dose of available nutrients to get them by. Only one feed then resume watering normally with no added nutrients. Let the pots dry well before watering again.

With these nutes and soil you don't need runoff but you do need to be mindful not to ever feed more than 1/2 the recommended and often a feed feed water schedule works well once the soil is depleted and needs added nutrients. Which is not yet.

You want to keep this type of soil between 30-60% saturated. So your likely going to see a little bit of overwatering symtoms but that's ok just not chronically.

Have a read here to get a better understanding of watering.

And ask as many questions as you like I'm not always right but do try to give the best advice based on my knowledge. And remember there are always more than one way to do things so it doesn't mean others are wrong, they just have a different view on how to go about things.

 
Aqua Man

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And yes I would back the light off for 3-5days to allow them to recover faster with less stress.
 
mancorn

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A PO deficiency can also produce dark green leaves. I seriously doubt straight FF soil is going to give you that much of a N overload. (Is that your cool cat in your avatar?)


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Aqua Man

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A PO deficiency can also produce dark green leaves. I seriously doubt straight FF soil is going to give you that much of a N overload. (Is that your cool cat in your avatar?)


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This man is absolutely correct. I do see some clawing and this did pop into my head but I dismissed it due to the minimal clawing.

It's absolutely possible an early P deficiency is the cause of the dark green leaves. If you see thise dark splotches then you'll know for sure.

But I don't see the purpliing in the stems usually accompanied with it. That's not to say it's not though.
 
PalMcGuy

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This man is absolutely correct. I do see some clawing and this did pop into my head but I dismissed it due to the minimal clawing.

It's absolutely possible an early P deficiency is the cause of the dark green leaves. If you see thise dark splotches then you'll know for sure.

But I don't see the purpliing in the stems usually accompanied with it. That's not to say it's not though.
Im not terribly knowledgeable but would you expect plants of my size to have stripped the nutrients enough within 24 days to have a phosphorus deficiency?

And i also wanna say i have had daaark leaves for a good while now

And if that is the case then i assume id still be okay to go ahead with the 1/8th nutes yeah?


My pinot noir has stems showing purple i assumed it to be a genetic trait as its only this noticable on this one plant

But i do have a strip running the length of one fan leaf stem on my double grape.


But at the same time i could treat both nitrogen toxicity and a phosphorus deficiency at the same time correct?

Also included a photo of my CDLC and Double Grape pruned and tied back up(gently with love)
 
PalMcGuy

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A PO deficiency can also produce dark green leaves. I seriously doubt straight FF soil is going to give you that much of a N overload. (Is that your cool cat in your avatar?)


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Unfortunately thats not my cat just a cute lil feller i had in my gallery when i decided to make this profile to ask around :)

And thanks for bringing this up because it definitely seems to make sense with the timing i figure, my plants have been growing pretty aggressively and im reaching the usual length of time it seems FFOF would be good for without added nutrients.

So a sudden further darkening along with purpling of stems on my Pinot Noir is making good sense to me
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Im not terribly knowledgeable but would you expect plants of my size to have stripped the nutrients enough within 24 days to have a phosphorus deficiency?

And i also wanna say i have had daaark leaves for a good while now

And if that is the case then i assume id still be okay to go ahead with the 1/8th nutes yeah?


My pinot noir has stems showing purple i assumed it to be a genetic trait as its only this noticable on this one plant

But i do have a strip running the length of one fan leaf stem on my double grape.


But at the same time i could treat both nitrogen toxicity and a phosphorus deficiency at the same time correct?

Also included a photo of my CDLC and Double Grape pruned and tied back up(gently with love)
Phosphorus is a difficult nutrient inn terms of availability... so yes it's absolutely possible. They do sell microbes specifically for that purpose.... to break it down into available form.
 
PalMcGuy

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Phosphorus is a difficult nutrient inn terms of availability... so yes it's absolutely possible. They do sell microbes specifically for that purpose.... to break it down into available form.
I guess this is the last question i have before dipping out for now


Since we're questioning if its nitrogen toxicity or phosphorus deficiency

Should i feed my other plants or continue watering plain water until a clear deficiency shows?
 
Aqua Man

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I guess this is the last question i have before dipping out for now


Since we're questioning if its nitrogen toxicity or phosphorus deficiency

Should i feed my other plants or continue watering plain water until a clear deficiency shows?
Well I would take the actions recommended then wait and see. Early stage deficiencies are difficult until some tell tale signs appear.
 
FATAL

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You have plenty of phos. A lack of calcium is holding the phosphorus from relocating sugars from source to sink. The only other possibility is Calcium waiting on boron. I promise you though, it's the calcium, I stayed behind a Hotel 6 last night.

Don't add phosphorus. You'll get a response, ruin the flavor of your weed, this will become your new normal, and no one will smoke with you or trade cuts with you.
I guess this is the last question i have before dipping out for now


Since we're questioning if its nitrogen toxicity or phosphorus deficiency

Should i feed my other plants or continue watering plain water until a clear deficiency shows?


Almost every Cannabis plant I've see online is severely calcium deficient, for what it's worth. It's almost the only nutrient problem there is. I'm not sure how pot growers missed this one to be honest. The people I've tried working with simply refuse to accept that cannabis uses tons more Calcium than it does Phos. Tons more. And that cannabis leaves should be flat and straight and even colored. Any hook or blotchy uneven color and you know it's a cal-phos issue. The glossy dark spots are photosynthates stuck in the leaf tissue that cannot make it to roots or new growth. The twisting drooping and clawing are parts of the plant outgrowing other parts because the nutrients are not distributing. Calcium is like the concierge of the soil.
 
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