Nutrient/salt buildup issues or environmental not quite sure.

[Dbean16]

So here we go, I am a new soil grower. (Used to grow hydro in DWC buckets years ago) I have 2 strains I’m running - Purple Kush and White Widow both from ILGM and auto flower seeds. They are in 5gal cloth pots sitting in plastic saucers right on the floor with FFOF soil & no amendments to speak of. I have a 5x5 tent with a large ducted hood and a 1k watt HPS. (Used a 1k MH during short veg period) Temps during light on run about 78-80 with a RH of 38-45 percent. Lights off temps drop to 66-69 with a RH of 50-55 percent.

Just recently (week 5-6 of flower) noticed some concerning yellowing and dryness of fan leaves. I am using the FF liquid nute line with Big Bloom, Grow Big, Tiger Bloom, Microbe Brew, Cal-Mag, Open Sesame, Beastie Blooms, and Cha-Ching.

After noticing these issues I figured I would start with a flush (used their sledgehammer product for this) I used 2 gal of solution for each pot with 5ml of sledge for each. Not quite sure if this was enough to properly flush each pot?

Since my flush didn’t seem to have the desired effect after 5 days I began exploring other avenues. I read a few threads here and began with these changes: To start my light was fairly close so I raised it up maybe 6-8 inches. I have also flushed each pot again with 2gal fresh water. (Using tap water at 288PPM 564EC and 6.9PH) I also put a doubled up a piece of cardboard under each saucer. (maybe the roots are getting too cold?) My runoffs for each girl was wayyy high.

PK2 had run off of 1898PPM 3796EC 5.73PH.

WW2 had run off of 1394PPM 2788EC 5.85PH.

WW3 had run off of 1831PPM 3662EC 5.72PH.

I’m trying to sort out if it’s the low PH causing this, the high run off of nutes, (maybe salt buildup) or if it’s environmental stuff. (My RH getting too low or the temp swings more than 10 degrees) Any help would be greatly appreciated - now time for a whiskey while watching the weeds grow

 

[Trixie]

You are supposed to have a high ppm with Fox farms because it's amended with unused salts or amendments. When you get a reading of 2900 ppm its mostly unused salts that will convert in the future with water exposure. IF you flush with a high ppm tap water you will get mixed results from the flush because the high hydroxyl content in the tap water. The tip burn or tip damage is from using water with high hydroxyl content. Impurities have nowhere to go other than the tips.

I hold on to the nutrients as long as I can without runoff to keep the nutrients. When I start feeding I will allow a little runoff in flowering if the EC get too high. Most of the time the plant uses everything I give it without any runoff.

 

[Trixie]

Always use pure clean water when using amended soils like OceanForest, HappyFrog, Roots Organic or homemade super soils.

 

[growsince79]

Way too many bottles imo. I'd try to get the rh 45-50 and just use tiger bloom to finish.

 

[Dbean16]

Ahh that makes total sense, I kinda freaked out when I saw such high levels and attributed that to overfeeding. I have basically been running the regular FF schedule but at 1/2 strength since 4th week of veg. Before that I didn’t see any need for nutes - I began feeding after transplanting from solo cups to the 5gal cloth pots.

So sounds like I’d do well to purchase some sort of an RO system. In the big scheme of things how bad is my tap water here? Is there a way to test the impurities? (The photos are right as I get it out of the spigot)

Also would it do me any good on the next run to mix Happy Frog with Ocean Forest? I have read more than a few threads on folks doing this.

 

[Trixie]

No mixing them wouldn't be as effective as using them individually. Water management is the critical factor that causes many challenges with FOXFARMs, it's not the soil.

 

[Dbean16]

So just to be clear you are saying I should be using a more pure water source. RO water not tap? You are attributing this to high ppm in my tap water?

To me this looks like a deficiency or overage of some sort. The fan leaves are yellowing and becoming crispy on the tips to the point where they are dead.

 

[Stonemason7767]

Looks like to much calcium.

 

[DoobieBro462]

Ahh that makes total sense, I kinda freaked out when I saw such high levels and attributed that to overfeeding. I have basically been running the regular FF schedule but at 1/2 strength since 4th week of veg. Before that I didn’t see any need for nutes - I began feeding after transplanting from solo cups to the 5gal cloth pots.

So sounds like I’d do well to purchase some sort of an RO system. In the big scheme of things how bad is my tap water here? Is there a way to test the impurities? (The photos are right as I get it out of the spigot)

Also would it do me any good on the next run to mix Happy Frog with Ocean Forest? I have read more than a few threads on folks doing this.

Not trying to be the bearer of bad news . But those tds and pH meters from vivosun are unreliable. I would check it with the drops if you have the pH up/down kit.

 

[Homesteader]

Seems like you are using a lot of nutrients. I am not familiar with your feeding schedule so I could be wrong but just be aware that overloading one nutrients can lock out another. Too much vs the right balance.
That said, water quality in terms of carbonates can be extremely high in certain places.
Most cities have water reports on their website. Small towns you can get it but may need to go to the town office. Well water will need to be tested (Costs like $100 to do it right but you could probably test bicarbonates yourself or look at your showerhead)



"An enormous amount of bicarbonate can be delivered to the soil via the irrigation water. With a bicarbonate level of 300 ppm (very high), one inch of water contains about 70 lbs/acre of bicarbonate.
If the soil is being irrigated at the rate of 1 inch per week, over the course of a 30 week season that adds up to 2100 lbs/acre of bicarbonate. That is equivalent to adding almost a ton and a half per acre of lime, which can significantly raise the pH, especially on lighter soils."

Bicarbonates in irrigation water

Soil test recommendations for organic farmers and gardeners. We help growers grow nutrient-dense food. Logan Labs tests and interpretation.

growabundant.com

 

[Dbean16]

Okay I have an RO system on the way just so I can cross that off my list. Also, any good recommendations for a PH/TDS/EC meter?

I’ve read Milwaukee and Bluelab are good, back in the day I used to have a Hanna. Could anyone recommend a decent meter that does PH/EC/TDS that’s under $250?

Not trying to be the bearer of bad news . But those tds and pH meters from vivosun are unreliable. I would check it with the drops if you have the pH up/down kit.

Doobie would you have any recommendations for a replacement tester? Preferably something that would work in soil as well as hydro.

 

[2Bad]

Anything over $60 will probably work. But this is what I have https://a.co/d/2wkZTQZ

 

[GNick55]

waaay too many different types of nutes, it’s not your water.. don’t use Ro water.. never ph when using soil..
man i could go on and on…

 

[GNick55]

oh one more thing..
do not grow autos,
now your chasing issues with a plant on a timer, good luck..

 

[2Bad]

oh one more thing..
do not grow autos,
now your chasing issues with a plant on a timer, good luck..

Agree with Nick on everything.

 

[DoobieBro462]

Okay I have an RO system on the way just so I can cross that off my list. Also, any good recommendations for a PH/TDS/EC meter?

I’ve read Milwaukee and Bluelab are good, back in the day I used to have a Hanna. Could anyone recommend a decent meter that does PH/EC/TDS that’s under $250?


Doobie would you have any recommendations for a replacement tester? Preferably something that would work in soil as well as hydro.

Apera SX600 is what I use. And an Inkbird TDS meter. You can get both for around 100$ american

 

[GNick55]

Agree with Nick on everything.

about time hahaha
totally kidding😘

 

[Dbean16]

oh one more thing..
do not grow autos,
now your chasing issues with a plant on a timer, good luck..

Yeah I hear ya there. I will be getting some regular fem beans for next year, didn’t realize I wouldnt be able to properly clone these genetics 🤦🏻

So my water purity shouldn’t be effecting me negatively? I had a 288PPM and 530 something ec right out of the tap. I was going to get some kind of filtration just in case I decide to switch to hydro next season

Here are a few bud shots.

I’m getting a lot of mixed signals here…

 

[GNick55]

what i see in those pics is a bit of light stress, raise it up 5-10 inches so your leaves are sitting more flat..
the first pic looks like Maybe a light leak coming in at night?, the amount of small round edged leaves?

 

[Dbean16]

Not trying to be the bearer of bad news . But those tds and pH meters from vivosun are unreliable. I would check it with the drops if you have the pH up/down kit.

So doobie says get a new PH TDS EC pen.

Looks like to much calcium.

Stone says Calcium. From the leaf charts and infirmary diagnosis threads I was thinking this might be it. I was feeding cal-mag @ 1/2 strength every feeding according to the FF chart. (2.5ml per gallon)

Seems like you are using a lot of nutrients. I am not familiar with your feeding schedule so I could be wrong but just be aware that overloading one nutrients can lock out another. Too much vs the right balance.
That said, water quality in terms of carbonates can be extremely high in certain places.
Most cities have water reports on their website. Small towns you can get it but may need to go to the town office. Well water will need to be tested (Costs like $100 to do it right but you could probably test bicarbonates yourself or look at your showerhead)



"An enormous amount of bicarbonate can be delivered to the soil via the irrigation water. With a bicarbonate level of 300 ppm (very high), one inch of water contains about 70 lbs/acre of bicarbonate.
If the soil is being irrigated at the rate of 1 inch per week, over the course of a 30 week season that adds up to 2100 lbs/acre of bicarbonate. That is equivalent to adding almost a ton and a half per acre of lime, which can significantly raise the pH, especially on lighter soils."

Bicarbonates in irrigation water

Soil test recommendations for organic farmers and gardeners. We help growers grow nutrient-dense food. Logan Labs tests and interpretation.

growabundant.com

Homesteader is probably right, I may have overdone it with the calcium and caused lockout?

waaay too many different types of nutes, it’s not your water.. don’t use Ro water.. never ph when using soil..
man i could go on and on…

and Nick could you refer me to a thread on the not PH ing your additives in soil? I believe I may have read one thread from Aqua Man on the subject…