Organic alternative to Bulkers/Hardeners?

[thoughtquery]

Dear Farmers,

I am blessed this year to be gifted with the opportunity to see girls grow under the sun in the beautiful wilderness and am very excited for the upcoming months. However I am the rookie of the team and so my voice holds little weight with some of the other team members. I am of the mind that you are what you eat, people, plants, and the such. That being said and having to work with people who are in a profit mindset (which I do not oppose) are wanting to use Gravity and the such for our G-house runs. Now I would not have such nasty shit in the plants as I know that it creates a low grade end product and do not want the people who will be enjoying the fruits of our labor to ingest that shit. If I am going to be able to sway minds and hold my ground I am in need of most valued information!

I know there are alot of proponents for inorganic feeding regiments but I know that people like Bodhi and some other members are Organic farmers and are hanging around. I would love to hear all sides, and even people who have switched teams (organic to synthetic or vise versa) and even hardcore TLO people with they are around.

Here are my questions my dear farmers!
1.) Does a plants genes determine it's performance limits or can they be pushed through what is given to them.
2.) Are there organic alternatives to providing the means to the concerns of the commercial mindset? (bulking,oil production, hardener)
3.) How does the plant really use what is given to it?

Thank you in advance for educating myself and maybe future people who have the same question. Throw in anything else maybe I have forgotten! :)

Remember to stop and smell the flowers ;)

 

[thoughtquery]

Nobodies got nothin for me?

 

[midwestdensies]

Compost teas, ewc, alfalfa teas, guanos and amendments are your friends. Humboldtlocal is as inspirational as it gets on here check his 2010 grow log.

 

[midwestdensies]

you need to read a book about plants as well brother it may help your last couple questions and ever google a quesion such as the ones your asking? it works wonders

 

[thoughtquery]

I am no stranger to literature, i have read dj shorts book, marijuana chemistry, marijuana botany, and am a lurker of many forums. I have searched google but i would like direct input from this forum in particular. I use teas currently and have read teaming with microbes. I will check humboldts log thank you. I have not though seen my particular quetions about a plants capabilities nor a specific organic technique for the weight and resin specificly. Thank you for responding

 

[paulycali]

My answer to your #3 question:
It's all about the beneficial bacteria. The bennies for short. They are a must in the root system. Plants need help from micro organisms and what not to breakdown the food for them. At first the nutrients are to big lets say for the plant to eat so the beneficial bacterias micro organisms break it down to a smaller ingestable size for the plant to eat and enjoy

 

[midwestdensies]

How a plant uses what you feed? confusing me honestly. Read about the xylem and how it uptakes. Plants want certain nutrients at certain times so the plant dictates what it needs at certain times hence dialing and learning the plant and its needs. not sure I made sense nor I get your question lol

MW

 

[d420dool]

hey thought man sounds like u need to read the revs book "true live organics" it COMPLETELY changed the way i grow for the better, triacantonal(from alfalfa) i think is it and cytokins(from seaweed or kelp) i think there called are two great things to help a commercial grower doin all organic, but like pauly said nothins gonna come out good if ur soil aint alive with fungi, and bacteria. one organic product i rave about is epsoma bio-tone all purpose 5-3-3, seriously kick ass stuff, i put a tablespoon or 2 around the stems about 3-4 weeks in flower and it seems to do a great job for me with bulking and the other stuff u said, a year ago i woulda never thought suttin that simple would work so great but it def does trust me KeepItSimpleStupid is my motto

 

[Peacheater81]

Bat guano

 

[ShivaSkunkPunk]

Good thread dude, I think it begins and ends with the Genetics, in my mind, there's no way i'm gonna get Shaq qualities from Mini-me-esqe parental stock.

I've been making the transition to Organic farming. I've done a fair amount of research on various forms of growing/feeding, always prefering quality over quantity, connoisseur over commercial bud. I'm partial to soil grown flowers, seems the other mediums i've tried flowers from were lacking something or other, coulda been the farmer. I'm interested in seeing what others think.

Guano, various rock minerals, AACT, Kelp/Seaweed, Fish Fert, Molasses for the Win!

 

[thoughtquery]

Thank you everyone :)

@d420 i own the revs book and i have read it. Im excited next year to run tlo soil with the spiking and layering and keeping the soil populated with a fungal leaning tea! However he states in the book that some strains prefer higher ph (bacteria dominated) i wish he would have explained his observation method and how he went about finding these things out though sough i could understand the method better.

@shiva thanks for the like!! :) Genetics is a must, i just landed some ancient og packs from bodhi and am buying the re release of stardawg thats dropping in a hour at the seed depot. I love the breeders who love there plants and am excited to work with such stock.

@peach bat guano, high phos im assuming, i have read high levels of phos really disturb the mini creatures and shit goes to hell. Are you suggesting a bat guano tea? Top dress? How long till the plant has access to that nutrient? I do not believe it is instantly available to the plant unless chelated salts are used. The rev says that anything with chelation salts, no matter what organic label used, destroys the micro heard also. Can you ses where things get confusing to a garden elf?

@midwest i know what the xylem and phloem are responsable for but not how to make a plant produce optimally using organic methods due to the non availability of the nutrients without chelating salts. Or even what organic(chelated) product to use other than gravity or cha ching or open sesame and all that jazz that will accomplish those specific desires of the other farmers of adding density and upping resin prodution.

There is alot of snake oil and hearsay and opinions in the cannabis growing culture and im looking for some pillars to stand on. Breedbay is great for organic growers and i lurk there alot also.

My curiosity stems from observing how some farmers seem to "push" a plant to its genetic limits regardless of phenotype. How in an organic environment the plants roots release exudates which in turn attract fungi which attract anthropods to feed on the fungi and the carbon cycle goes on regardless of growers interference organically because of the circle of life taking place on its own.

It feels like chem users have a bit more control in deliverance of specific elements at all times in the cycle because there is no life cycle happening, all mini organisms are dead and cannot survive let alone thrive in a Controled chemical environment.

I wish for more knowledge about what the cannabis plant is actually doing in an organic environment and how to "push" or allow it express itself at its highest genetic means so i can meet the ignorant demands of most patients who are in the dark and rely on hype, bag appeal, and the such.

Naturaly yours
-Thought

 

[cheaplastic]

Ive skimmed through these posts and no one seems to mention that your ultimate results are limited to your genetics.

genetics, genetics, genetics.

Theres a reason why people like me hoard elite cuts and refuse to give them out lol

 

[caveman4.20]

How about environmental triggers to bulken harden and ripen.... Just to name a few drop temp cut humidity in half raise light hell change it back to the mh for fall know what im sayin.... Just throwing it out there even elite genetics need a lill guidance! Sometimes..... CM

 

[HydroRocks]

Recent research and study in cell biology has shown that the cell membrane that gets "stimulated" by its environment, will then retrieve the needed genetic information that is based on those external stimulating factors.

This is how or why the VERY same type of cells will become or develop into heart muscle, or skin, ect.....

SO based on that information, it is important to get the environment right to achieve "full genetic expression", or what other growers call "pushing the plant"......

If you read and pay attention to NEW studies being done in both genetics and cell biology, the entire "foundation" of our understanding is being turned on its head.

ALL of these studies and test shows that you are NOT destined to inherit some genetic "flaw" from your parents or blood relatives as once thought, but in fact the "environment" controls all......meaning what you eat, how you live, things of that nature.....

I mean if you think about it, there are ONLY 4 letters or codes used in ALL of the genetics.....the arrangement of these 4 letters determines basically "everything"......

That information ALONE should have told us we were NOT understanding a fundamental value or "truth" about genetics and how it all works. But then again "truth" has NEVER stopped science before.

What is being learned today is that our "genes" have what is basically exactly like little radio antenna's, "listening" to its external environment.

Bruce Lipton PHD, is a expert in cell biology and is doing much of this new ground breaking research if anyone is interested in understanding more. There is SO much left to be understood and learned, IMVHO.

He probably is best known for promoting this "idea" that genes and DNA can be manipulated by a person's beliefs.

Beliefs and "perception" are one in same......and if you think "belief" has no merit in science, understand that it is a KNOWN FACT that "Placebo" accounts for 1/3 of ALL medical cases. That is a huge number when you consider what it is measuring. Because someone "believed" they were going to get better, they DID.

So if placebo accounts for 1/3 of all cases, then what does "NON-PLACEBO" account for??

People are "programmed" from BIRTH to need a doctor to get better when they fall sick which is why you start FEELING BETTER on the way to a doctors appointment, or while sitting in the ER waiting, or even after just calling and making a appointment to see a doctor.....your brain already started the healing process because you completed the FIRST step in your programming for getting "better", which was to go see a doctor. This is what we "BELIEVE".

 

[caveman4.20]

I wish could find a study that smashes most if not all placebo studies for starters when did they stop using sugar for placebo and what effects did they not account for in whatever replaced the sugar pill?

 

[caveman4.20]

Neuroplasticity is one of many examples of how powerful the mind is.

 

[707seedbank]

Calphos, i beleive its ground up horse/cow hoof.

I did a side by side with this stuff years ago and it works great. My yeilds went way up but i did notice it effected the flavor a bit,

 

[caveman4.20]

Calphos, i beleive its ground up horse/cow hoof.

I did a side by side years ago with this stuff years ago and it works great. My yeilds went way up but i did notice it effected the flavor a bit,

For better flavor or worse?

 

[caveman4.20]

Tallow would probably be good maybe worth a try

 

[Seamaiden]

If your focus is organic, then you MUST focus on the soil and feeding that, NOT feeding the plants. That's where your question is getting you into trouble, for starters. The other issue is that something like Gravity, if I recollect what it is roughly, having plant growth regulators in it means that it's playing with the plant's hormonal switches and causing something to happen that may not happen naturally.

But, my suggestion is to focus on the soil itself instead of the typical NPK paradigm (where they're stuck) and know that building a really great soil takes a little while, it cannot be done overnight. Once you learn how to get to that best soil, you'll get to the best each girl can produce. However, before you go to all that trouble, ask how they're going to process it. If it's by machine, it may not be worth the trouble.

Also, if you're new, you may have to wait a bit before you really have a place to have much say in the how of how things are done. In the meantime, rock your own personal grow, and really rock it.