Organic Nutes With Coco?

[dmshayne]

I am wondering if you could use any organic nutrients to feed your plant in a coco mix. And if so what are the most recommended organic nutes?

 

[NickTheGreek]

coco is organic so you have to use organic nutes I'm using coco in my current grow go check out my profile for help I'm still in the early stages of my grow(about 5 weeks from cuttings) I'm pretty knowladgeable with coco just ask if needed. use the cannacoco nutes you'll mix there a&b solution witch is a 4-0-1 and a 1-4-2 that you mix into you tap water at 40ml per 10litters(of each solution) then add a cal mag 1ml per L PH must be a solid 5.9 some people say 5.8-6.2 and even 5.5-6.5 but trust me stay at 5.9( always test Ph after all nutes are added and wait 30 mins before testing) always collect atleast 20% runoff don't be afraid to water them girls once a day when over 9-13 inch tall

 

[Seamaiden]

You don't "have" to use organic nutrients in coir because it's 'organic.' You can use synthetic fertilizers just as well in coir, I promise. That said, I'm rather into the organic thing, so it's my personal preference, not to be applied to everyone like a blanket. That 20% runoff thing doesn't apply if you're using only organic fertilizers. Why? No salts to build up. Also, know that if you're running truly and purely organic fertilizers you will not be able to accurately measure anything except temps and pH. EC/ppm/TDS cannot be measured accurately by our inexpensive meters. Also, a manu can claim their ferts are organic, but if they're not actually certified, you cannot be sure of this. There are MANY scheisters in the canna-biz game, and some of the worst offenders are nutrient and 'cide' manufacturers (just look up the recent Guardian fiasco to get an idea of what I'm talking about).

What you DO have to do is be very cognizant of the fact that 1) it is NOT soil, 2) it provides a very high amount of K, and 3) it sucks up Ca like a nympho.

Most folks I know who run organic coco like lines like Earth Juice. I personally prefer something simple that isn't labeled organic, but has organic numbers and ingredients, Floranova Bloom, in combination with Fox Farms Big Bloom and both powder and liquid Koolbloom. This is based on a feeding regimen known as The Big Ricky.

Have you done much growing at all before, @dmshayne ? I saw your other thread, you've got some fantastic genetics.

 

[dmshayne]

You don't "have" to use organic nutrients in coir because it's 'organic.' You can use synthetic fertilizers just as well in coir, I promise. That said, I'm rather into the organic thing, so it's my personal preference, not to be applied to everyone like a blanket. That 20% runoff thing doesn't apply if you're using only organic fertilizers. Why? No salts to build up. Also, know that if you're running truly and purely organic fertilizers you will not be able to accurately measure anything except temps and pH. EC/ppm/TDS cannot be measured accurately by our inexpensive meters. Also, a manu can claim their ferts are organic, but if they're not actually certified, you cannot be sure of this. There are MANY scheisters in the canna-biz game, and some of the worst offenders are nutrient and 'cide' manufacturers (just look up the recent Guardian fiasco to get an idea of what I'm talking about).

What you DO have to do is be very cognizant of the fact that 1) it is NOT soil, 2) it provides a very high amount of K, and 3) it sucks up Ca like a nympho.

Most folks I know who run organic coco like lines like Earth Juice. I personally prefer something simple that isn't labeled organic, but has organic numbers and ingredients, Floranova Bloom, in combination with Fox Farms Big Bloom and both powder and liquid Koolbloom. This is based on a feeding regimen known as The Big Ricky.

Have you done much growing at all before, @dmshayne ? I saw your other thread, you've got some fantastic genetics.

This is my first ever grow. actually funny enough this used to be a bagseed.

 

[Seamaiden]

I was going to ask if you're sure you want to start with coir, but here you are. I highly recommend hitting cocoJoe's posts, he seems to really know what he's doing with coir cultivation. We have quite a few cats who really know their coir shizzy, but I can't recall everyone offhand. Once you get into it, you'll be able to tell pretty quickly who has an idea what they're doing and who doesn't. :)

And, if that 'bagseed' is really a Swazi gold landrace, she's gonna be fuckin' SCARY high! Let her finish fully, don't try to harvest too soon or you'll get the worst paranoid high. Those African Sativas can be heavy hitting in the head.

 

[dmshayne]

I was going to ask if you're sure you want to start with coir, but here you are. I highly recommend hitting cocoJoe's posts, he seems to really know what he's doing with coir cultivation. We have quite a few cats who really know their coir shizzy, but I can't recall everyone offhand. Once you get into it, you'll be able to tell pretty quickly who has an idea what they're doing and who doesn't. :)

And, if that 'bagseed' is really a Swazi gold landrace, she's gonna be fuckin' SCARY high! Let her finish fully, don't try to harvest too soon or you'll get the worst paranoid high. Those African Sativas can be heavy hitting in the head.

Hey thanks for the info, I'm going to give her all the time she needs until she is ready :)

 

[dmshayne]

Hey thanks for the info, I'm going to give her all the time she needs until she is ready :)

Also going to be starting a new grow diary soon.

 

[NickTheGreek]

im a first time grower in coco and I'm doing fucking great right now so all i can tell you is read till your blue in the face and get info from more than 2-3 sources I'm reading and learning about 4hr a day just on my computer people don't understand. you can't just trow them in a pot coco needs a lot of love and knowledge read up knowledge is power. you're doing great keep it up and don't quit it will be worth it

 

[Ecompost]

Organics in coco, sure, and now we are running Organics in coco recycled from the first run. We found the microbes are a bit tricky, we used more pseudomonas and trichoderma, less bacillus, but we had reasonable results. The first plant is a Scotts OG, the second is a Crocketts Afternoon delight...time will tell. I am used to reusing my media, if coco cant work like that also, I see little future since will need sustainable as well as grade :-)

 

[Ecompost]

This is my first ever grow. actually funny enough this used to be a bagseed.

good luck mate

 

[aunaturale20]

You don't "have" to use organic nutrients in coir because it's 'organic.' You can use synthetic fertilizers just as well in coir, I promise. That said, I'm rather into the organic thing, so it's my personal preference, not to be applied to everyone like a blanket. That 20% runoff thing doesn't apply if you're using only organic fertilizers. Why? No salts to build up. Also, know that if you're running truly and purely organic fertilizers you will not be able to accurately measure anything except temps and pH. EC/ppm/TDS cannot be measured accurately by our inexpensive meters. Also, a manu can claim their ferts are organic, but if they're not actually certified, you cannot be sure of this. There are MANY scheisters in the canna-biz game, and some of the worst offenders are nutrient and 'cide' manufacturers (just look up the recent Guardian fiasco to get an idea of what I'm talking about).

What you DO have to do is be very cognizant of the fact that 1) it is NOT soil, 2) it provides a very high amount of K, and 3) it sucks up Ca like a nympho.

Most folks I know who run organic coco like lines like Earth Juice. I personally prefer something simple that isn't labeled organic, but has organic numbers and ingredients, Floranova Bloom, in combination with Fox Farms Big Bloom and both powder and liquid Koolbloom. This is based on a feeding regimen known as The Big Ricky.

Have you done much growing at all before, @dmshayne ? I saw your other thread, you've got some fantastic genetics.

When you say "has organic numbers and ingredients" what is that really defined by? For instance, cobalt sulfate is a mined synthetic mineral (http://www.omri.org/ubersearch/results/cobalt sulfate)...which is much of the case for the majority if not all of the 'derived from ingredients' on the Floranova Bloom label.

 

[aunaturale20]

Organics in coco, sure, and now we are running Organics in coco recycled from the first run. We found the microbes are a bit tricky, we used more pseudomonas and trichoderma, less bacillus, but we had reasonable results. The first plant is a Scotts OG, the second is a Crocketts Afternoon delight...time will tell. I am used to reusing my media, if coco cant work like that also, I see little future since will need sustainable as well as grade :)

It's so good to hear that we're all prioritizing sustainability. :cool:

 

[blazer]

I have used General Organic's line up in a Rez with top feed with canna coco with great results, though had to chase a few PH swings, compared to the Canna A&B I use now much more stable PH in Rez.
The Canna A&B are not Organic

 

[Rootbound]

coco is organic so you have to use organic nutes I'm using coco in my current grow go check out my profile for help I'm still in the early stages of my grow(about 5 weeks from cuttings) I'm pretty knowladgeable with coco just ask if needed. use the cannacoco nutes you'll mix there a&b solution witch is a 4-0-1 and a 1-4-2 that you mix into you tap water at 40ml per 10litters(of each solution) then add a cal mag 1ml per L PH must be a solid 5.9 some people say 5.8-6.2 and even 5.5-6.5 but trust me stay at 5.9( always test Ph after all nutes are added and wait 30 mins before testing) always collect atleast 20% runoff don't be afraid to water them girls once a day when over 9-13 inch tall

Not sure I get this post. You say you have to use organic nutes with coco because its organic, but you are using synthetic nutrients (canna, and calmag) ?

 

[Seamaiden]

When you say "has organic numbers and ingredients" what is that really defined by? For instance, cobalt sulfate is a mined synthetic mineral (http://www.omri.org/ubersearch/results/cobalt sulfate)...which is much of the case for the majority if not all of the 'derived from ingredients' on the Floranova Bloom label.

When I say organic numbers I'm referring to the NPK values. Typically for organic minerals we're talking about a percentage below 10, though of course not always. Whereas with most synthetic salts you're going to see numbers in the multiples of 10s.

I'm not sure how you can mine something synthetic, how does that work, exactly? Langebenite is also mined, it's a source of humic acids and it's 100% approved for organic cultivation, which is the other side of the coin I'm looking at. My bottle of FNB has a good bit of humic acid in it, which is one reason why it stains so badly, and why I mentioned the organic ingredient. ;)

 

[Ecompost]

I have used General Organic's line up in a Rez with top feed with canna coco with great results, though had to chase a few PH swings, compared to the Canna A&B I use now much more stable PH in Rez.
The Canna A&B are not Organic

I found the coco with microbes required less N inputs with the rocks than pure coco, same as we expect in soil, but a surprise in light of the low N content of Coco and inert base of the pebbles. I think its the air ratios being higher than in soils meant that the N fixing trichoderma process more N2 naturally... i am only guessing at this stage since I dont have anywhere near enough data points for MJ, but we will see what we can do this year.
I have a few plants that have really shown signs of struggle when we added even L-Amino forms of N. I think this caught us out and so we got a bit of a wonky -ion fest which swung my pH up above 7. The added rocks in the coco certainly would have improved CEC and so this was almost certainly my error, not spacing the inputs of Aminos.
It took some work to get it back in to line if we ever actually did. I found the rising base to be ongoing. I will strip out some of the pots and get the media under the scope and have it tested to see what elements we lost and when. I think in time the biology will harmonise and perhaps we might reduce this late base swing.
I have tinkered with a bloom mix to lower the K rate in also. Again we added some KSBs and PSB's. i just think these microbes really did the job and we ballsed it up adding too many additions, plus we had a few temp problems, its been effin cold this winter.
The ones I still have running have had no food for 14 days, showing no signs of slow growth, loss of scent,...all very odd, any food they have had has been very light, never above 0.6ec and we havent even been adding calmag either outside of the 3-4 week Breathe foliar which stops at week 4-5 anyway.
I'd like to say I know whats happening, but its too early and more data is needed. I will have some more idea once I can see what life we have towards the back end, I think I got a bloom of bacillus, which would help me square the pH a little.

 

[Ecompost]

When I say organic numbers I'm referring to the NPK values. Typically for organic minerals we're talking about a percentage below 10, though of course not always. Whereas with most synthetic salts you're going to see numbers in the multiples of 10s.

I'm not sure how you can mine something synthetic, how does that work, exactly? Langebenite is also mined, it's a source of humic acids and it's 100% approved for organic cultivation, which is the other side of the coin I'm looking at. My bottle of FNB has a good bit of humic acid in it, which is one reason why it stains so badly, and why I mentioned the organic ingredient. ;)

if it can be mined by microbes, its organic for me, if we have to do it, with machines and acids and petrol and foaming agents, its likely not. For example Selenium as BAS and not as MAS.
No one should be using synthetic Nitrogen outside. In the future, you will go to jail for this. If I was the President, you'd be stopping its use right now :-)

 

[Seamaiden]

We have to dig in the dirt, so that's just disqualified the earth by your method.

 

[Ecompost]

We have to dig in the dirt, so that's just disqualified the earth by your method.

I dont really dig the earth, you know what I mean, if you need a big truck and some fracturing fluids

 

[Seamaiden]

If we like using humic acids, those have to be mined. If we like using rock dusts, those have to be mined. I'm not sure how else to get around that fact, nor do I know how to get the miners to use different methods.

:)