Oxygenated water

[Compost Man]

When using an O2 pump to oxygenate the water it's best to have the water stream break the surface tension to give WAY MORE oxygen to the water.

 

[PhatNuggz]

When using an O2 pump to oxygenate the water it's best to have the water stream break the surface tension to give WAY MORE oxygen to the water.

In what Oxygen for Dumbasses book did you se that? Go to O2Grow website and watch some of their videos

 

[AnselAdams]

When using an O2 pump to oxygenate the water it's best to have the water stream break the surface tension to give WAY MORE oxygen to the water.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of micro-bubble deliver by blasting all of your precious 02 into the atmosphere by the rolling water?

Just sayin'

 

[Aqua Man]

In what Oxygen for Dumbasses book did you se that? Go to O2Grow website and watch some of their videos

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of micro-bubble deliver by blasting all of your precious 02 into the atmosphere by the rolling water?

Just sayin'

O2 is exchanged at the surface it's not dumbass book it's facts. Your micro bubble don't dissolve in the water produce more dissolved oxygen. They stay suspended in the water and it fools the DO meter into thinking it dissolved o2.
@Compost Man is absolutely right. If you care to debate this let's have at it. O2 emmiters are a gimmick when it comes to gas exchange oxygen is very hard to dissolve in water above equalibrium and requires increased dwell time which emitters do but also increased pressure which they don't. The dwell time being meaningless without the increased pressure. Not to mention the failure rates increase in hydro due to the salinity of water and reaction with the emitters.

 

[AnselAdams]

O2 is exchanged at the surface it's not dumbass book it's facts. Your micro bubble don't dissolve in the water produce more dissolved oxygen. They stay suspended in the water and it fools the DO meter into thinking it dissolved o2.
@Compost Man is absolutely right. If you care to debate this let's have at it. O2 emmiters are a gimmick when it comes to gas exchange oxygen is very hard to dissolve in water above equalibrium and requires increased dwell time which emitters do but also increased pressure which they don't. The dwell time being meaningless without the increased pressure. Not to mention the failure rates increase in hydro due to the salinity of water and reaction with the emitters.

Aqua Man;

i am not trying to argue for the sake of argument. I am trying to make sure i understand the science. Personally i am not trying to go beyond the 8.0 saturation level. I totally agree that science says that if you want to go beyond saturation then additional pressure and dwell time are required. As a twice certified dive master and assistant instructor; i am very, very familiar with a lot of theories behind gas exchange. My goal is to simply make sure that i supply as much 02 as possible, to give my plants the best possible chance of survival.

If i were doing a couture grow of something "special" then perhaps the expense of a pressurized environment would be worth the cost. Maybe.

With regards to water salinity. Where does that theory go with RO water?

 

[Aqua Man]

Aqua Man;

i am not trying to argue for the sake of argument. I am trying to make sure i understand the science. Personally i am not trying to go beyond the 8.0 saturation level. I totally agree that science says that if you want to go beyond saturation then additional pressure and dwell time are required. As a twice certified dive master and assistant instructor; i am very, very familiar with a lot of theories behind gas exchange. My goal is to simply make sure that i supply as much 02 as possible, to give my plants the best possible chance of survival.

If i were doing a couture grow of something "special" then perhaps the expense of a pressurized environment would be worth the cost. Maybe.

With regards to water salinity. Where does that theory go with RO water?

I was referring to the minerals salts reacting with the electrodes causing them to break down much sooner than when used in a much lower salinity source of water.

I would say water temp is the biggest factor in terms of total DO but surface agitation is the biggest factor in terms of maintaining that level of DO.

Oxygen is really hard to dissolve in water above equalibrium. CO2 is much easier and can be done with a simple homemade reactor. Using the same style reactor and using oxygen you can see this. It's not even worth attempting imo.

 

[Dirtbag]

O2 is exchanged at the surface it's not dumbass book it's facts. Your micro bubble don't dissolve in the water produce more dissolved oxygen. They stay suspended in the water and it fools the DO meter into thinking it dissolved o2.
@Compost Man is absolutely right. If you care to debate this let's have at it. O2 emmiters are a gimmick when it comes to gas exchange oxygen is very hard to dissolve in water above equalibrium and requires increased dwell time which emitters do but also increased pressure which they don't. The dwell time being meaningless without the increased pressure. Not to mention the failure rates increase in hydro due to the salinity of water and reaction with the emitters.

Nailed it. Thank you. For best gas exchange you want a large ripple of higher pressure at the surface which the bubbles create.

 

[AnselAdams]

I was referring to the minerals salts reacting with the electrodes causing them to break down much sooner than when used in a much lower salinity source of water.

I would say water temp is the biggest factor in terms of total DO but surface agitation is the biggest factor in terms of maintaining that level of DO.

Oxygen is really hard to dissolve in water above equalibrium. CO2 is much easier and can be done with a simple homemade reactor. Using the same style reactor and using oxygen you can see this. It's not even worth attempting imo.

Agreed. The temp. issue overall is why i maintain a 64-65F water temp at all times.

I use this calculator along with my meter the ensure that even if the calculations are wrong; they are consistently wrong. ==> http://www.waterontheweb.org/under/waterquality/dosatcalc.html

So how does a high agitation rate maintain the level? I would think that the micro bubbles would attach to the water drops in the spray. We are not talking about a lot of water, but we are not talking about large particles.

 

[Aqua Man]

Now I'm not saying that having micro bubbles suspended in water is not beneficial to plants but what I'm saying is there is no more real benefit than having adequate gas exchange and good water temps. There is also a huge difference in cost and also the longevity of the emitters. I would say they are not ideal in a hydro system and certainly not for the cost.

 

[AnselAdams]

Nailed it. Thank you. For best gas exchange you want a large ripple of higher pressure at the surface which the bubbles create.

Dirtbag....

Howdy Man... you said "... higher pressure..." doesn't that imply that there is a point of excess after which you are not helping, if not damaging?

 

[Aqua Man]

Agreed. The temp. issue overall is why i maintain a 64-65F water temp at all times.

I use this calculator along with my meter the ensure that even if the calculations are wrong; they are consistently wrong. ==> http://www.waterontheweb.org/under/waterquality/dosatcalc.html

So how does a high agitation rate maintain the level? I would think that the micro bubbles would attach to the water drops in the spray. We are not talking about a lot of water, but we are not talking about large particles.

I prefer to call it adequate because at a certain point there is just no benefit to more agitation. The further the o2 levels go below equalibrium the faster o2 exchange happens both will do the job because it's the simple contact of air and water that allows this to happen but moving surface water ensure it's mixed the more exposure of water to air the better the gas exchange rate. But that does not mean more DO. It simply means the DO will stay at equalibrium instead of depleting.

 

[AnselAdams]

Now I'm not saying that having micro bubbles suspended in water is not beneficial to plants but what I'm saying is there is no more real benefit than having adequate gas exchange and good water temps. There is also a huge difference in cost and also the longevity of the emitters. I would say they are not ideal in a hydro system and certainly not for the cost.

I certainly see your point. Especially for a business oriented grower. I just want to maximize my two cabinets and expand my grow knowledge.

Thanks

 

[Dirtbag]

Dirtbag....

Howdy Man... you said "... higher pressure..." doesn't that imply that there is a point of excess after which you are not helping, if not damaging?

No I just mean the air pressure needs to be just slightly higher than atmospheric for the gas to dissolve. This happens when the ripple of water pushed upwards by the bubbles very slightly increases the air pressure on the surface, as well as creates turbulence so the O2 deprived water is pushed up to be oxygenated. You can get the same result with a flooming pump and zero bubbles. The reason still water goes anaerobic is because the air pressure is neutral at the surface and there is no turbulence.

 

[AnselAdams]

I prefer to call it adequate because at a certain point there is just no benefit to more agitation. The further the o2 levels go below equalibrium the faster o2 exchange happens both will do the job because it's the simple contact of air and water that allows this to happen but moving surface water ensure it's mixed the more exposure of water to air the better the gas exchange rate. But that does not mean more DO. It simply means the DO will stay at equalibrium instead of depleting.

OK! Now i'm tracking with you @ 100%

"... But that does not mean more DO. It simply means the DO will stay at equalibrium instead of depleting. ..." this tracks well with my 20 years in large fish tanks and Koi ponds. I turn over my 2000 gallon Koi pond about every 20 minutes, especially in the summer when the water is warmer (pond is covered) and holds less oxygen for the fish. While i have two large air pumps; the quality of the water suffers and my sand filter is less efficient, if i slow it down. In the winter i can drop the water exchange rate to once an hour without issue.

 

[AnselAdams]

No I just mean the air pressure needs to be just slightly higher than atmospheric for the gas to dissolve. This happens when the ripple of water pushed upwards by the bubbles very slightly increases the air pressure on the surface, as well as creates turbulence so the O2 deprived water is pushed up to be oxygenated. You can get the same result with a flooming pump and zero bubbles. The reason still water goes anaerobic is because the air pressure is neutral at the surface and there is no turbulence.

got it! a gentle bubbling; not a rolling boil.

Gracias

 

[Dirtbag]

got it! a gentle bubbling; not a rolling boil.

Gracias

You just need to see adequate surface disruption. Unless you're in DWC starting plants, then you want bubbles to break the surface to keep the young roots wet that havent gone into the nutrient solution yet (thanks AquaMan! lol). Otherwise for DO purposes, you just need to see a strong ripple on the surface and have decent recirculation in the res.

 

[Aqua Man]

You just need to see adequate surface disruption. Unless you're in DWC starting plants, then you want bubbles to break the surface to keep the young roots wet that havent gone into the nutrient solution yet (thanks AquaMan! lol). Otherwise for DO purposes, you just need to see a strong ripple on the surface and have decent recirculation in the res.

Yup exactly

 

[Uno]

In what Oxygen for Dumbasses book did you se that? Go to O2Grow website and watch some of their videos
[/QUOT

In what Oxygen for Dumbasses book did you se that? Go to O2Grow website and watch some of their videos

I think I will read that dumb ass book !

 

[NinoGrows420]

I agree with aquaman shit he said sounds right...
(I have no clue what he said)

 

[Uno]

I agree with aquaman shit he said sounds right...
(I have no clue what he said)

Hell yah I’m betting the farm on aquaman ! I’m with you sounds correct to me! Still googling it