PH lockout or Deficiency? Help!

[ChikiPox]

Hello!

I'm new in here, I don't know what's happening.
I'm growing 3 different strains (Critical, Lemon Zkittle, Blue Dream). Same feeding, PH, etc. for all but only the blue dream has this severe problem since mid bloom.
I only use 3 nuts in all my grows ( the rest is in medium): General Organics nuts, BioThrive (Veg/Bloom) + CaMg + PH Up. (I set the nuts+water the night before feeding).

I used before the PH corrector. My nuts are no more than a year old, but I noticed a PH of 4.3 with water in this grow (turn more acid with time?).
I started rising the nuts to 5.5-5.9 with water. Testing the medium, water, nuts. to stay in PH 6.5 - 6.9 overall. (No problems since 2 grows ago).

In early bloom I wait the signs of any lack of NPK to rise the nuts in flowering stage as advertised. Only feeding with CaMg (5ml) + BioThrive Bloom (5ml)/ Gal. at the moment everything perfect. I rise to 10ml/Gal. of BrioTrive Bloom only. The days after I noticed nut burn with all the plants. A Little Bit, but the BlueDream was kind of worse.

I flushed everything with clean water for 2 days and start only feeding with BioThrive Bloom 5ml/Gal. again. The burn stopped but the problems went in other direction.

The behavior is not like a mobile deficiency and is only happening in 2 plants, the rest is fine except for minimum nutrient burn.

THE HORROR: Didn't flush this grow before until this happened. Flushed the day after I noticed the burn, and 1 week later with minimum nuts, NO PH Up correction this time.
Day after burn: The drainage water PH during flushing was 7.4
1 week later: The water + nuts was PH 4.8 (without the PH Up). The drainage PH was 7.1 (Waiting for results, no nutrient burn 24hr later).

(JUST GUESSING THE PROBLEM IS THE SALT FROM PH UP + TOO MUCH NUTRIENTS).

Hope can help, thank you for reading!

----

Medium: Pro mix + Perlite. Soil PH: 7
RO water with PH: 6.8-7.1
Temps: 24ºC - 29º C (HOT DAYS: 32ºC MAX.)
Humidity: 45- 55% (HOT DAYS: 70% MAX.)
Smart Pots: 5gal.

 

[az2000]

General Organics nuts, BioThrive (Veg/Bloom) + CaMg + PH Up. (I set the nuts+water the night before feeding).
...
Medium: Pro mix + Perlite. Soil PH: 7

That ph is high for soilless. I think it should be about 6.2 in flower(? I think I did 5.8 in veg, and 6.2 in flower).

But, why are you using "bio" nutrients in a soilless medium? If you wanted bio type activity, why not be in soil (an environment that would encourage microbial activity? Technically, peat moss is organically inert. It obviously is organic material. But, not in the sense of what constitutes soil.). Sorry, that's probably unrelated and doesn't help the immediate problem. But, it just seems like using hydro nutes in soil, or soil nutes in hydro (which soilless esentially is) would invite problems like this.

 

[Steve705]

I’m no expert but it looks like you gave them too much and they locked other nutrients out. I don’t think “flushing” is a good idea in flower. I would just wait till the soil gets really dry. Get some good water (distilled is good). Only put half the bloom nutrients (3-4 ML ) and P.H your water to 6.3-6.5. I’d do that a couple times. I wouldn’t be expecting the leaves to turn back to normal though. That’s how I would approach it. Don’t know if there are any better options to take while flower like that. Good luck

 

[az2000]

THE HORROR: Didn't flush this grow before until this happened. Flushed the day after I noticed the burn, and 1 week later with minimum nuts, NO PH Up correction this time.
Day after burn: The drainage water PH during flushing was 7.4
1 week later: The water + nuts was PH 4.8 (without the PH Up). The drainage PH was 7.1 (Waiting for results, no nutrient burn 24hr later).

I should have asked: which pro-mix are you using? I assumed it's HP or BX (soilless) because you talked about feeding in veg. But, if it's one of the soils with nutrients built into it, you could have salt buildup. It might have nothing to do with the 10ml increase. You could have been at the tipping point already. The dolomite could have been activating in response to lowering ph. Then you flushed, and you're left with an over-rebounding soil.(?)

It's strange that you've grown this way before without problems, right? Something must have changed. But, all you notice is the ph of your nutrient mix is lower? Maybe those "bio" bottles have a shelf life?

 

[ChikiPox]

That ph is high for soilless. I think it should be about 6.2 in flower(? I think I did 5.8 in veg, and 6.2 in flower).

Sorry, I miss the "+" at the end, must be more clear the soil info. Is PROMIX (50)+ SOIL/COMPOST (35)+ PERLITE (15). Was the best consistency for this batch, I guess.

The only changes I do when i switch to bloom are the nuts lights humidity and temp. I never change ph levels, but I'll read more about it. Thanks for the info!
Regards!

 

[ChikiPox]

I’m no expert but it looks like you gave them too much and they locked other nutrients out. I don’t think “flushing” is a good idea in flower. I would just wait till the soil gets really dry. Get some good water (distilled is good). Only put half the bloom nutrients (3-4 ML ) and P.H your water to 6.3-6.5. I’d do that a couple times. I wouldn’t be expecting the leaves to turn back to normal though. That’s how I would approach it. Don’t know if there are any better options to take while flower like that. Good luck

Probably is not a good idea to flush in the mid of flowering, but reading and hearing from other growers is a quick way to correct if the lockout if it is evident. I'll not be surprised to miss something really important. Thanks for your comments!

 

[ChikiPox]

I should have asked: which pro-mix are you using? I assumed it's HP or BX (soilless) because you talked about feeding in veg. But, if it's one of the soils with nutrients built into it, you could have salt buildup. It might have nothing to do with the 10ml increase. You could have been at the tipping point already. The dolomite could have been activating in response to lowering ph. Then you flushed, and you're left with an over-rebounding soil.(?)

It's strange that you've grown this way before without problems, right? Something must have changed. But, all you notice is the ph of your nutrient mix is lower? Maybe those "bio" bottles have a shelf life?

Sorry, I miss the "+" at the end, must be more clear the soil info. Is PROMIX (50)+ SOIL/COMPOST (35)+ PERLITE (15). Was the best consistency for this batch, I guess.

I can't find the brand info. But yes, comes with nutrients.

- Probably have both problems and thinking in one. I think is about salt blocking, plus the lack of nutrients. I see it in the speed of fan leaves dying. But again, only in 2 plants of 6.
- Yeah, I think i fuckdup the medium. The only "change" was in veg. with 2 whole months before switch. Before where autos.

I'm still learning about nutrients + ideal mediums. I'll go back to soil + pelite + coco probably.
General Bio is the only I have right now. And I didn't know that promix is organically inert.

Definitively I need to rethink my medium and nutrients. That's why I like the community, I want to do the best way.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Beachwalker]

Hello!

I'm new in here, I don't know what's happening.
I'm growing 3 different strains (Critical, Lemon Zkittle, Blue Dream). Same feeding, PH, etc. for all but only the blue dream has this severe problem since mid bloom.
I only use 3 nuts in all my grows ( the rest is in medium): General Organics nuts, BioThrive (Veg/Bloom) + CaMg + PH Up. (I set the nuts+water the night before feeding).

I used before the PH corrector. My nuts are no more than a year old, but I noticed a PH of 4.3 with water in this grow (turn more acid with time?).
I started rising the nuts to 5.5-5.9 with water. Testing the medium, water, nuts. to stay in PH 6.5 - 6.9 overall. (No problems since 2 grows ago).

In early bloom I wait the signs of any lack of NPK to rise the nuts in flowering stage as advertised. Only feeding with CaMg (5ml) + BioThrive Bloom (5ml)/ Gal. at the moment everything perfect. I rise to 10ml/Gal. of BrioTrive Bloom only. The days after I noticed nut burn with all the plants. A Little Bit, but the BlueDream was kind of worse.

I flushed everything with clean water for 2 days and start only feeding with BioThrive Bloom 5ml/Gal. again. The burn stopped but the problems went in other direction.

The behavior is not like a mobile deficiency and is only happening in 2 plants, the rest is fine except for minimum nutrient burn.

THE HORROR: Didn't flush this grow before until this happened. Flushed the day after I noticed the burn, and 1 week later with minimum nuts, NO PH Up correction this time.
Day after burn: The drainage water PH during flushing was 7.4
1 week later: The water + nuts was PH 4.8 (without the PH Up). The drainage PH was 7.1 (Waiting for results, no nutrient burn 24hr later).

(JUST GUESSING THE PROBLEM IS THE SALT FROM PH UP + TOO MUCH NUTRIENTS).

Hope can help, thank you for reading!

----

Medium: Pro mix + Perlite. Soil PH: 7
RO water with PH: 6.8-7.1
Temps: 24ºC - 29º C (HOT DAYS: 32ºC MAX.)
Humidity: 45- 55% (HOT DAYS: 70% MAX.)
Smart Pots: 5gal.

First you must flush the soil very well! Use water pH'ed to 6.5

How you apply and mix your nutrients and water wasn't completely clear to me, however let me tell you a basic practice of mixing nutrients which might help you:

Your start with tap water, you add the nutrients that you're planning to use to the tap water, then you adjust the pH to 6.5 (not 6.5 - 7.0 too high).

After I flushed that plant I would feed it the next time it was dry, also I would recommend you begin using Dolomite lime to eliminate such problems in the future, search it and use as directed for best results

Hope this helps and if I can answer anything else just ask, good luck!

 

[Beachwalker]

Probably is not a good idea to flush in the mid of flowering, but reading and hearing from other growers is a quick way to correct if the lockout if it is evident. I'll not be surprised to miss something really important. Thanks for your comments!

That is not correct. Please be careful of the advice you take or you will make a bad issue worse quickly.

Flushing must be done all through a plant's growth if there's an issue. I just flushed three plants in flower within the hour, one was showing an issue and two others of the same strain were flushed as a precaution so it's not a big thing. All my plants get a mini flush on a scheduled basis all through their lives

Its the only way to get the built-up salts out and to help adjust your pH which is what your issues most likely are, unless I'm misreading how you're mixing your nutrients which is also possible,

Go with the basic flush using 3× the volume of the pot your using (eg. a 3 gallon pot will take 3 gallons of flush water, PH should be 6.5) to get the salts out and to help *raise the pH, that's why I mentioned *dolomite,

and know you're going to lose all the damaged leaves but I believe you'll start seeing an improvement soon after, let me know if I can help or answer anything else

Edit: one more suggestion, don't mix a bunch of things together and think it's a growing medium, cuz what you have is a bunch of different things mixed together which do best at different pH levels, and may or may not respond well when used in conjunction with each other. I've seen a lot of problems from people using mixes like that just my opinion, good luck

 

[az2000]

Sorry, I miss the "+" at the end, must be more clear the soil info. Is PROMIX (50)+ SOIL/COMPOST (35)+ PERLITE (15).

That sounds fine for the nutrients you were using. However, if the Pro-Mix was one of the products with nutrients already in it, I don't think you needed to add compost. And, if it had nutrients in it, that complicates how you feed.

Definitively I need to rethink my medium and nutrients. That's why I like the community, I want to do the best way.

I use Pro-Mix HP (soiless, doesn't have any organically active material added to it. That's the stuff I thought you were using). I add 25% potting mix to make it (technically) a soil, and 25% more perlite because I think cannabis likes light/airy soil, fast wet/dry cycles. I documented it here (<<link) if you'd like to see more about it. There's nothing special about it. I'm sure others have soils they like. I use "HP" which is high porosity. Others use use BX. It has less perlite, and adds vermiculite which keeps the soil wet. They add compost to theirs, making it more like a soil (the way I do HP). You basically did the same thing, but it sounds like you started with a soil version of Pro-Mix, with nutrients already added to it. Maybe feeding that caused you a problem.

What I feed is shown in my Sea Grow "schedule" here. (<<link). The GH Bio products could be better. I use a few generic things to mimic the kind of NPK ratios that the multi-bottle "lineups" produce. It's cheap. (You can see the NPK ratios that arise from GH Flora 3-part, and Fox Farms "trio." There is a spreadsheet there which would let you see what NPK ratio/strength you're feeding with the various GH Bio bottles. I think that's fun, to see what results from these "lineup" schedules.).

 

[ChikiPox]

First you must flush the soil very well! Use water pH'ed to 6.5

How you apply and mix your nutrients and water wasn't completely clear to me, however let me tell you a basic practice of mixing nutrients which might help you:

Your start with tap water, you add the nutrients that you're planning to use to the tap water, then you adjust the pH to 6.5 (not 6.5 - 7.0 too high).

After I flushed that plant I would feed it the next time it was dry, also I would recommend you begin using Dolomite lime to eliminate such problems in the future, search it and use as directed for best results

Hope this helps and if I can answer anything else just ask, good luck!

I use Reverse Osmosis Water, the tap water is too hard for the plants.
First I add CaMg+ 5ml/Gal. wait to settle down, then I add the BioThrive 5ml/Gal. All of this the night before and PH (5.5-6) all the nuts 30 min. before feeding.
I PH because is the advertised in the feedcharts from General Organics because my solution with water drops to 4.3 without the PH UP.

Thinking the soil has a buffer or PH regulator as I remember, the PH is always 7. I tested the PH of medium/water with 1:1 ratio. And 5.5 in the solution throw the numbers to maintain the whole medium to 6.5 (like mathematics but just testing). Measuring the water drained at 6.5. If I use the nutrient solution to 6.5 in this batch, my readings are above 7.2 I flushed enough to drop that 7.2 just thinking that was too much PH UP locked.

I fed until now only in Saturdays (rising slowly from 5ml/gal. to 7.5ml/gal - 10ml/gal. here is where nut burn started). And the whole week just drop the plain water at 6.5 without nuts. Is that correct? or i'm totally wrong?

I just thinking in use fox-farm medium without adding anything else, or go back to dirt.

Thanks for your opinion!

 

[az2000]

I use Reverse Osmosis Water, the tap water is too hard for the plants.
First I add CaMg+ 5ml/Gal.

FWIW: my tap water is very hard. I mix 20% tap to 80% RO water to get 150ppm water. (I don't measure it. Anything between 100-200ppm. I just know how much tap to start with, and then fill the rest of the way with RO water. It turns out 130-170.). It's cheap.

[Another cheap way to add minerals back into RO water is gypsum and epsom salt. 1 gram of each in a gallon of water will give you 60ppm Ca, 25ppm Mg (good ratio), and 80ppm sulfur. That puts you around 150'ish ppm to start.].

 

[ChikiPox]

That sounds fine for the nutrients you were using. However, if the Pro-Mix was one of the products with nutrients already in it, I don't think you needed to add compost. And, if it had nutrients in it, that complicates how you feed.



I use Pro-Mix HP (soiless, doesn't have any organically active material added to it. That's the stuff I thought you were using). I add 25% potting mix to make it (technically) a soil, and 25% more perlite because I think cannabis likes light/airy soil, fast wet/dry cycles. I documented it here (<<link) if you'd like to see more about it. There's nothing special about it. I'm sure others have soils they like. I use "HP" which is high porosity. Others use use BX. It has less perlite, and adds vermiculite which keeps the soil wet. They add compost to theirs, making it more like a soil (the way I do HP). You basically did the same thing, but it sounds like you started with a soil version of Pro-Mix, with nutrients already added to it. Maybe feeding that caused you a problem.

Very helpful info. thank you!
I started with a mix of coco, soil and perlite. Great results in root development but with the pro-mix I got more dense roots and buds.
I tested this at the same time and same strains to compare.

 

[ChikiPox]

Hello Guys!
@az2000 @Steve705 @Beachwalker
I found the culprit.

Was the water PH. In the past had no problem with the low PH + nuts. But I tested the PH from 1 water container and was above 8.2 (plain water all other containers at 6.8)
Usually never test the plain water because is always the same. I refill the bottles from a dispenser. Probably they miss something in one batch.
Flushing the plants with a little bit of nutrients fix everything. but again was only 2 plants from 6. And only happened with the blue dream strain.

Regards and thanks for your help, I learned more about the medium and how to improve!

 

[az2000]

Hello Guys!
@az2000 @Steve705 @Beachwalker
I found the culprit.

Was the water PH.

It's hard for me to understand how water ph matters in soil. If you start with 150ppm water, there's not much buffering in it. It shouldn't take much ph-up/down to move its ph. The soil has far more buffering in it to pull the water's ph to it (not the other way around).

Adding nutrients to the water creates more buffering. If the nutrient solution is very strong, it can take a considerable amount of up/down to move it. That ph "strength" could move the soil ph more.

I haven't ph'ed my water nor nutrient solution in 4-5 years. Never any problems. I mix 1 to 1.5 tablespoon dolomite lime into each gallon of soil. Maybe that makes a difference,

 

[ChikiPox]

It's hard for me to understand how water ph matters in soil. If you start with 150ppm water, there's not much buffering in it. It shouldn't take much ph-up/down to move its ph. The soil has far more buffering in it to pull the water's ph to it (not the other way around).

Adding nutrients to the water creates more buffering. If the nutrient solution is very strong, it can take a considerable amount of up/down to move it. That ph "strength" could move the soil ph more.

I haven't ph'ed my water nor nutrient solution in 4-5 years. Never any problems. I mix 1 to 1.5 tablespoon dolomite lime into each gallon of soil. Maybe that makes a difference,

I believe was a mix problem between Ph + nuts + ph up (plus over 8.2 ph water). The soil is already to be stable but combined with hp too high and the lack of drain to waste. I think.

 

[bankcee]

It's hard for me to understand how water ph matters in soil. If you start with 150ppm water, there's not much buffering in it. It shouldn't take much ph-up/down to move its ph. The soil has far more buffering in it to pull the water's ph to it (not the other way around).

Adding nutrients to the water creates more buffering. If the nutrient solution is very strong, it can take a considerable amount of up/down to move it. That ph "strength" could move the soil ph more.

I haven't ph'ed my water nor nutrient solution in 4-5 years. Never any problems. I mix 1 to 1.5 tablespoon dolomite lime into each gallon of soil. Maybe that makes a difference,

you add dolomite to your soil mix? what about an inert mix like peat and perlite only? should i just cut out the peat and dolomite and run coco and perlite? how will that affect my medium ph?