PhDown Severely/abnormally drops the PH on DWC solution

  • Thread starter FlyingToast
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
F

FlyingToast

80
33
So i have a problem i can never find an answer to no matter how hard i search.

i am preparing a solution for future use (bean is in paper towel and i am having the solution ready to see how the ph acts day by day before i encounter theese problems with the seedling inside and suffering)

So my environment is absolutely perfect regarding temps, water temps humidity etc, everything is sterile as hell, my water is 0.3 EC and i added another 0.2 EC of Advanced nutrients connoiseur ph perfect for a total of 0.5 to begin with the seedlings. plus a little quantity of microbes(voodoo juice, like 2ml in 20 liters) my water is 7.8 ph from the ta

on a 20lt reservoir i began with 7.7ph after nutes, 1ml of ph down got me to 6.9,another 2 ml got me to 6.6, another 3 ml got me to 6.3,another 4 ml got me to 5.9 and finally another 5 ml got me to 5.7.

both buckets are in the absolutely same conditions, same bucket same everything, same nutrients same EC and same phdown ml yet one of the 2 dropped to 4.3 PH after like 15', while the other stayed at a solid 5.7
...the 4.3 ph bucket took 20ml of 7ph buffer to come to 4.7ph and another 30ml to rise to 5.5, i left it there.
And now the part that has me completely flabbergasted:
half an hour passed while i was doing all that, and the bucket that was originally a steady 5.7 now rose to 5.9, so i thought "why not give it 0.3ml of phdown to drop it back to 5.7 or a bit lower so i can counter the inevitable rising of the ph,and BOOM that 0.3ml dropped the ph of the whole 20lt bucket to 4.3 too.... it took 1 glass of 7.5ph of tap water and 15ml of the 7phbuffer to reach 5.4 and i didnt play with it anymore because i already had hedache haha.

2 days after both buckets are in the same 6.0 ph, looks steady, airstone at full blast, and i am about to plant.

An wizards with specialization to the dark arts of PH balancing? what do you guys make of this whole carnival of a situation?
 
Z

Zill

1,401
263
FT,

If I was a betting man, I'll bet you got a slew of multivalent ions and charged organic matter messing with your pH values. Its best to make an adjustment and let it sit for a while before adding more or measuring. It will calm down just give a bit of time to equilibrate. Also, consider raising that soil pH slightly higher than 6.0. It will always drift lower and some nutrients ppt out at a low pH. 6.0 is OK but you are on the fingertip ledge of contentment.

Zill.
 
F

FlyingToast

80
33
FT,

If I was a betting man, I'll bet you got a slew of multivalent ions and charged organic matter messing with your pH values. Its best to make an adjustment and let it sit for a while before adding more or measuring. It will calm down just give a bit of time to equilibrate. Also, consider raising that soil pH slightly higher than 6.0. It will always drift lower and some nutrients ppt out at a low pH. 6.0 is OK but you are on the fingertip ledge of contentment.

Zill.
thanks for answering brother, i am runing a sterile Deep water culture hydroponics, and everytime i dropped more phdown or something i always wait about 3-5 min till i add more, and i am manually stirring the bucket and i am also having the air pump mixing the water with the bubbles...plus im using mineral fertilisers with like 1/8th of the recommended dose for beneficial bacteria so i kinda doubt that whole charged organic matter...unless i dont understand something correctly about charged organic matter, i will look into what you said though
 
tobh

tobh

Supporter
4,194
263
don't try to manage pH with the nutrients you're using. Go based on the feeding chart only. pH perfect will NOT play nice with you adjusting the pH.

honestly, i recommend switching to something else for your nutrients. @Aqua Man will say the same thing -- pH perfect nutes cause a ton of headaches
 
F

FlyingToast

80
33
don't try to manage pH with the nutrients you're using. Go based on the feeding chart only. pH perfect will NOT play nice with you adjusting the pH.

honestly, i recommend switching to something else for your nutrients. @Aqua Man will say the same thing -- pH perfect nutes cause a ton of headaches
Appreciate your answer dude, do you think that letting ph perfect nutes without adjusting could benefit me? will it be around 5.7-6.1?
if not i will go tommorow and buy good ol' reliable general hydroponics, or the Athena nutrients (opinion on those 2?)
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
Appreciate your answer dude, do you think that letting ph perfect nutes without adjusting could benefit me? will it be around 5.7-6.1?
if not i will go tommorow and buy good ol' reliable general hydroponics, or the Athena nutrients (opinion on those 2?)
General Hydroponics 3 part, some cal mag, a silica product if you are feeling froggy, and PH Up and Down are all you need to be successful, should be available just about anywhere, and will fix your PH issues. I've helped more than one grower thru this transition, and if you follow some basic info, you will be successful too.

AN is just not user friendly. No sense pulling your hair out.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
If you want to relive a PH struggle with AN thru a new grower's eyes, check out this thread


He is 100% squared away now and growing like a pro, but AN really hurt him for a while.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
Yeah Ph perfect will work but do NOT PH adjust it and run it exact as per thier directions full strength. Your in a long line who have had issues with it but it will work if you use it exactly as directed at full concentration and dont even look at the PH. AN nutrients are designed to be available at a very wide PH. Call thier help line and they will confirm that. I cannot stress enough to not get caught chasing PH with this nutrient…. Just ignore the Ph

alternative number 2 change nutrients
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
don't try to manage pH with the nutrients you're using. Go based on the feeding chart only. pH perfect will NOT play nice with you adjusting the pH.

honestly, i recommend switching to something else for your nutrients. @Aqua Man will say the same thing -- pH perfect nutes cause a ton of headaches
Exactly this. Id swap out after youbuse those up and yes you can change nutrients during the grow if thats whn you finish them
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

2,007
263
I run flora trio and two athena products. I run their calmag because it has lower calcium levels and I run their balance. Its a silica additive that helps stabilize your res by adding alkalinity. I dont use ph up anymore. I use balance instead and boy does it work great for keeping my res stable.

I add nutes to ro, then add balance which brings my ph from like 5.7 all the way up to 8.0. Then I add my ph down and drop it to 5.5 ph. It slowly climbed over the days. It use to crash hard when it crashed. Now when my ph starts dropping its slow instead of hard.

When my Nitrate levels get below 50ppms my ph usually starts crashing. Its more less like its sitting in Ro water. If theres nothing to eat the roots will actually release ions, or absorb. . idk which. . i forgot. . .but regardless those reactions make your ph fall. If you have alkalinity during that time, it will act as a buffer to reduce the effect. Somewhat like a catalytic converter but not really. The other reason ive seen was when I had over 200ppms of nitrate. When i make the batch and level it out. . or even if I do a top off. . the ph will slowly crash for like a day. . then its all fine. So I've concluded if you have alkalinity and keep your nitrate ppms between 100 and 150 then your res will have more stability. . . but depending on capacity of water, it might not be alot of stability.

If u want your res to stop crashing, increase its holding capacity and then focus on alkalinity. My 30 gallons per 1 plant lasts twice as long as my 15 gallon per plant system. . meaning ph adjustments every 5 days instead of 2.5. With a 5 gallon per plant system a large plant will suck all available nitrates in 1 day.

Again my opinion, but I also have stability and do 2 month res changes with 0 issues.
 
F

FlyingToast

80
33
Guys i can't thank you enough for all the input, it is absolutely valuable for me.

I am between grabbing some general hydroponics stuff and giving it a go along some calmag and some silica

Or actually doing what aqua man suggested and runnig AN in their exact schedule (which is easier since i have the whole line all 18 bottles and they are still full)
My question regarding AN is i added like 1/8th of the recommended dose and i have 0.5 EC (tap water 0.3 EC) if i add the full quantities that are suggested won't my EC be crazy? especially since im in the seedling phase? aren't my plants gonna suffer from all that fertilizer?

just to let you know, i am an intermediate soil grower and i have studied for months DWC systems before jumping in, i have watched everything professor bruce bugbee has online, aswell as Mr grow it that does podcasts with all kinds of experts, also more practical hobbyists like dusa farms, and generally i'm trying to stay on top, i am willing to study and understand.

what of those 2 methods should i follow given that my environment is absolutely dialed and i will actually put in honest work in making it work? im trying to go for the less possible headache, and find one recipe that works and can be repeated again and again hustle free and with additional refinement i hope to produce a very solid quality of flower.. any ideas?
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
Guys i can't thank you enough for all the input, it is absolutely valuable for me.

I am between grabbing some general hydroponics stuff and giving it a go along some calmag and some silica

Or actually doing what aqua man suggested and runnig AN in their exact schedule (which is easier since i have the whole line all 18 bottles and they are still full)
My question regarding AN is i added like 1/8th of the recommended dose and i have 0.5 EC (tap water 0.3 EC) if i add the full quantities that are suggested won't my EC be crazy? especially since im in the seedling phase? aren't my plants gonna suffer from all that fertilizer?

just to let you know, i am an intermediate soil grower and i have studied for months DWC systems before jumping in, i have watched everything professor bruce bugbee has online, aswell as Mr grow it that does podcasts with all kinds of experts, also more practical hobbyists like dusa farms, and generally i'm trying to stay on top, i am willing to study and understand.

what of those 2 methods should i follow given that my environment is absolutely dialed and i will actually put in honest work in making it work? im trying to go for the less possible headache, and find one recipe that works and can be repeated again and again hustle free and with additional refinement i hope to produce a very solid quality of flower.. any ideas?
Is you got 18 bottles full id just use em up… thats a lot of $$$. Personally id switch to a simple dry fert as it’s much cheaper… search “ballin on a budget” thread here by @BillFarthing .

GH is proven but a bit more costly so it all depends on your preference
 
Ponky

Ponky

3,941
263
I bought a food that was fortunate enough to keep my P.H. at a 6.0. And it wasn't expensive so I just changed the water every 2 or 3 days. I had previously used a food combo that cost more and I was doing a top up. Waste of time. Lots of hassle. Just letting them have fresh food each time. Less hassle.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

5,044
313
Is you got 18 bottles full id just use em up… thats a lot of $$$. Personally id switch to a simple dry fert as it’s much cheaper… search “ballin on a budget” thread here by @BillFarthing .

GH is proven but a bit more costly so it all depends on your preference
GH is now in dry too.

Gh1


Gh2
 
F

FlyingToast

80
33
Thanks again for the input guys, what about My question regarding AN is i added like 1/8th of the recommended dose and i have 0.5 EC (tap water 0.3 EC) if i add the full quantities that are suggested won't my EC be crazy? especially since im in the seedling phase? aren't my plants gonna suffer from all that fertilizer?
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
Thanks again for the input guys, what about My question regarding AN is i added like 1/8th of the recommended dose and i have 0.5 EC (tap water 0.3 EC) if i add the full quantities that are suggested won't my EC be crazy? especially since im in the seedling phase? aren't my plants gonna suffer from all that fertilizer?
Id just start a new res to make it easier
 
F

FlyingToast

80
33
i can do that, but im asking if 1/8th of the recommended dose gets me to 0.5 EC, isn't the full recommended dose too much fertilizer for my seedlings? im guessing the EC will be 1.5++

am i understanding something wrong here?
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

26,480
638
i can do that, but im asking if 1/8th of the recommended dose gets me to 0.5 EC, isn't the full recommended dose too much fertilizer for my seedlings? im guessing the EC will be 1.5++

am i understanding something wrong here?
Forget everything you think you know about these nutrients… its does not apply to these.
 
Top Bottom