pHing the water, then adding fertilizer?

[SunshineSupergirl]

So, I have a question about dry fertilizer, liquid fertilizer and pH in the water.

When adding liquid or dry fertilizer and also trying to pH the water what should you do?

Should you pH the water first?
I've been using lemon juice to pH my water down to about 6.35 and that seems to work really well.

However when it comes to adding the fertilizer wouldn't that also adjust the pH?

Now going to alternate each week between a dry and liquid fertilizer.

My liquid fertilizer is a doctor Earth 111
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The the other fertilizer I have is an EB Organics 462 dry fertilizer sure start.

But I have also noticed that when adding fertilizer the amount that you add definitely changes the pH to way lower than 6.35, based on the amount that they're telling you to add (I've been using half of what you're supposed to use for now, since my plants are still young)

I mean obviously when I don't fertilize I have the pH where it should be when it comes to just using water.

So how do I factor in fertilizer?

How do I still maintain the pH while adding the right amount of fertilizer?

 

[Treecutter]

PH your water after adding your nutrient to the water. I don't put straight PH up or PH down in my feed water. I Dilute the ph up or ph down in water before adding it.

Some will tell you in an organic grow there is no need to PH at all. That's true until you over feed your soil and your bacteria over takes your micro biology and the soil becomes anaerobic.

A cheap EC meter will tell you alot about your soil conditions by a measurement of a large sample of run off water for your plants .
There are a ton of learning threads here click the link below and scroll down, there are over 16 pages of threads.
CLICK HERE

 

[SunshineSupergirl]

PH your water after adding your nutrient to the water. I don't put straight PH up or PH down in my feed water. I Dilute the ph up or ph down in water before adding it.

Some will tell you in an organic grow there is no need to PH at all. That's true until you over feed your soil and your bacteria over takes your micro biology and the soil becomes anaerobic.

A cheap EC meter will tell you alot about your soil conditions by a measurement of a large sample of run off water for your plants .
There are a ton of learning threads here click the link below and scroll down, there are over 16 pages of threads.
CLICK HERE

I have pH meter for water and soil test kits for runoffs and soil.

EC meter is different?

 

[Tasty Buds]

I was always told to PH the water 1st. The reasoning "it acts as a buffer", so that's what I did for a while. To this day I don't know what was meant by acts like a buffer, but that's what everyone said?
I'd ph the water, and check it after the nutes were put in. I don't believe I needed to adjust after the nutes (salts) were put in. I'm sure if it needed adjusting I'd adjust.
I quit doing that. I just add my nutes, and I'm usually in range. If not I'll adjust from there. When I use the Lucas Formula I don't even check.

 

[SSgrower]

I use silica 1st. then the rest of the Dyna-Gro, then I Ph down as silica and the nutes raise the Ph. Cheers SS

 

[Peat_Phreak]

You can acidify before nutes or after. As you noticed, the nutes will also lower the pH. Acidifying after the nutes is the easiest method. The downside of this easy method is your tap water still has bicarbonate which causes the media pH to rise over time which could cause nutrient lockouts.

However, the one of the main reasons for adding acid is to neutralize the bicarbonate in tap water because it is the main culprit for rising media pH over time. To do this, acidify plain water to 4 pH to neutralize most of the bicarbonate. Then add nutes. Then pH UP to your target feeding pH with potassium silicate.

 

[Treecutter]

I have pH meter for water and soil test kits for runoffs and soil.

EC meter is different?

Yes it is different. This is the meter I like. It does pretty much that i need in one meter.. You can purchase extra replacement heads and calibration solutions and different probes for it.

Apera Instruments, LLC-AI3719 PC60-Z Bluetooth Multi-Parameter Smart Tester Powered by ZenTest Mobile App, Measuring pH/Conductivity/TDS/Salinity/Resistivity/Temp. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LFG4R9V/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_86MACXZ0FDJRTXQYX9Z9?psc=1

 

[mysticepipedon]

I was always told to PH the water 1st. The reasoning "it acts as a buffer", so that's what I did for a while. To this day I don't know what was meant by acts like a buffer, but that's what everyone said?
I'd ph the water, and check it after the nutes were put in. I don't believe I needed to adjust after the nutes (salts) were put in. I'm sure if it needed adjusting I'd adjust.
I quit doing that. I just add my nutes, and I'm usually in range. If not I'll adjust from there. When I use the Lucas Formula I don't even check.

pH up and down are not buffers. Whoever told you that was confused. Soil can be a buffer.

I agree with your method — nutrients and additives can change pH. Adjust afterwards.

I am skeptical of the blanket statement by some organic growers, saying irrigation water doesn't have to be adjusted for pH. That doesn't fly if you have a lot of minerals in your water. Soil is a buffer, but all buffers have a capacity. Once that capacity has been reached it can't help you.

 

[SunshineSupergirl]

I use silica 1st. then the rest of the Dyna-Gro, then I Ph down as silica and the nutes raise the Ph. Cheers SS

I've been adding diamectous Earth, especially at the beginning which has some silica in it, when I was having a problem with gnats and a few other creepy crawlies, thankfully have had not seen any insects for a while.

What kind of silica do you add?

 

[SunshineSupergirl]

You can acidify before nutes or after. As you noticed, the nutes will also lower the pH. Acidifying after the nutes is the easiest method. The downside of this easy method is your tap water still has bicarbonate which causes the media pH to rise over time which could cause nutrient lockouts.

However, the one of the main reasons for adding acid is to neutralize the bicarbonate in tap water because it is the main culprit for rising media pH over time. To do this, acidify plain water to 4 pH to neutralize most of the bicarbonate. Then add nutes. Then pH UP to your target feeding pH with potassium silicate.

I don't think I have any potassium silicate.

I have potassium soap salts for bug control.

I can get the water down to 4ph, but in regards to liquid versus dry fertilizer, that still drives the pH down, though.

Do I have to have the potassium silicate?

 

[SunshineSupergirl]

You can acidify before nutes or after. As you noticed, the nutes will also lower the pH. Acidifying after the nutes is the easiest method. The downside of this easy method is your tap water still has bicarbonate which causes the media pH to rise over time which could cause nutrient lockouts.

However, the one of the main reasons for adding acid is to neutralize the bicarbonate in tap water because it is the main culprit for rising media pH over time. To do this, acidify plain water to 4 pH to neutralize most of the bicarbonate. Then add nutes. Then pH UP to your target feeding pH with potassium silicate.

Wouldn't it be better just to skip the lemon juice and just add plain water to the existing fertilizer?

My liquid fertilizer already lowers the pH so, wouldn't it be better for me just to skip using lemon for that particular feeding?

 

[Peat_Phreak]

I don't think I have any potassium silicate.

I have potassium soap salts for bug control.

I can get the water down to 4ph, but in regards to liquid versus dry fertilizer, that still drives the pH down, though.

Do I have to have the potassium silicate?

If you pH to 4, you would need something to raise the pH to the desired level after adding nutes. It doesn't have to be potassium silicate, but that is a good choice because it is something the plant can use. You probably don't have to pH to 4 and adjust. The main reason to do that is if you have high bicarbonate water and grow in peat, coco or hydro.

It sounds like you are in soil? If so, I wouldn't bother doing what I described unless you have problematic water.

 

[SunshineSupergirl]

If you pH to 4, you would need something to raise the pH to the desired level after adding nutes. It doesn't have to be potassium silicate, but that is a good choice because it is something the plant can use. You probably don't have to pH to 4 and adjust. The main reason to do that is if you have high bicarbonate water and grow in peat, coco or hydro.

It sounds like you are in soil? If so, I wouldn't bother doing what I described unless you have problematic water.

Yeah I have soil.

The water that comes out of my tap is about 7.8 pH... So I've been adding lemon juice to get it down to 6.35 every time I add water.

But when I did the lemon juice and then added the liquid fertilizer it took the PH down to like five which is too low obviously.

So I guess the choice is to just skip the lemon juice every time I fertilize right?

If I add the amount of fertilizer to the water that the instructions are asking for it also lowers the pH way down to blow something like 4.75.

Should I not be worried about pH and just go ahead and add the amount of nutrients that it needs?

Or can I just teach the water first and then add my nutes?


I just want to make sure that I'm not going to acidify the plant too much.

 

[Peat_Phreak]

Wouldn't it be better just to skip the lemon juice and just add plain water to the existing fertilizer?

My liquid fertilizer already lowers the pH so, wouldn't it be better for me just to skip using lemon for that particular feeding?

That depends on what the pH is after you add nutes. If it's in the desired range, then you can skip lemon juice.

It also depends on how much bicarbonate your water has. If your water has high bicarbonate, you can pH to the ideal range and still get rising media pH and lockout problems. To correct this, use RO water or acidify to 4 pH, then add nutes then pH UP to the desired range.

 

[Peat_Phreak]

If I add the amount of fertilizer to the water that the instructions are asking for it also lowers the pH way down to blow something like 4.75.

Should I not be worried about pH and just go ahead and add the amount of nutrients that it needs?

That sounds bad if it's correct. No, I would not proceed with this. Nutes generally don't lower the pH that much. So something is wrong. What are the nutes?

 

[Tasty Buds]

pH up and down are not buffers. Whoever told you that was confused. Soil can be a buffer.

I agree with your method — nutrients and additives can change pH. Adjust afterwards.

I am skeptical of the blanket statement by some organic growers, saying irrigation water doesn't have to be adjusted for pH. That doesn't fly if you have a lot of minerals in your water. Soil is a buffer, but all buffers have a capacity. Once that capacity has been reached it can't help you.

It was actually a well known grower who had told me that, so I did for a but, and it just didn't seem to make a difference, and like you said, that really was a blanket statement. I do like the Lucas Formula, as I've gotten lazy in my old age. I only use city water. I haven't had ph issues since.
.It's kind of funny how 1 "known " breeder/grower can say something like that, and so many of us followed (include me) lol

 

[mysticepipedon]

It was actually a well known grower who had told me that, so I did for a but, and it just didn't seem to make a difference, and like you said, that really was a blanket statement. I do like the Lucas Formula, as I've gotten lazy in my old age. I only use city water. I haven't had ph issues since.
.It's kind of funny how 1 "known " breeder/grower can say something like that, and so many of us followed (include me) lol

If someone lives in an area that has good water, they don't know what it's like to live in an area without it.

 

[SSgrower]

I've been adding diamectous Earth, especially at the beginning which has some silica in it, when I was having a problem with gnats and a few other creepy crawlies, thankfully have had not seen any insects for a while.

What kind of silica do you add?

Currently I use Dyna -Gro ProTeKt, but may try Power-Si someday. Cheers SS

 

[SunshineSupergirl]

Currently I use Dyna -Gro ProTeKt, but may try Power-Si someday. Cheers SS

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I have pH meter for water and soil test kits for runoffs and soil.

EC meter is different?

EC measures dissolved solids using an electrical current. It's a measurement similar to ppm.

As for using lemon juice as a pH down ... the cannabis gods frown on that. Reasons are it breaks down too easily and can also cause unwanted pest issues in a soil grow. (You can take that information how you choose.) Personally, I never adjust pH. I grow in soil and soil acts as the buffer. The nutes drop my pH into the mid to lower 6's anyway so no further adjustments required.