Plants dying, looks like overwatering but it's not

  • Thread starter Jaydee86
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J

Jaydee86

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Is there anyone out there that has seen or heard of anything like this?
So I'm not a noob and I've successfully grown plants in much harsher conditions than what I'm doing now, I've had them in all kinds of different methods with huge swings and fluctuations in different parameters and thought they would suffer even in 30c heat and below 10c cold, pH swings from 5-7 and I've never seen what I'm experiencing now.
So anyway this is the 4th time now that I can't make it to 12/12 due to this problem I'm having and cannot find why??
I'm using nft mainly as I've pulled some out and potted up in soil/coco mix to see if the problem still persist in which it does so that rules out the growing method.
My pH levels are good 5.8-5.9, ppms around 800, temps fluctuate between 18-25c, water temps around 18c.
Feeding with canna a+b as base nutrients with added h20, my roots all look good, nice white and healthy looking.
The problem I've got looks like overwatering problem but it's not.
Everything is pretty much perfect and no real reason my plants should be dying.
The veins in the leaves are dark almost like a purple hue to them before they start drooping over and start dying in which the leaves have this distinctive papery feel almost like what a banknote feels like, you can feel that the leaves have no moisture feeling to them like very dehydrated.
I thought I solved the issue by switching the led lights (2x Mars hydro ts 3000)
For a 400w mh hps light and they came back to life and started a vigorous growth and then boom they start drooping again and leaves begin to droop and go papery again.
As you can tell I'm very frustrated and I feel like a complete failure as I watch noob growers pot up seeds in their shed and don't even know what ph level means, they don't measure anything and pulling off 2 grams per watt.
Like seriously I have the most perfect setup, 2x 8 inch airforce silent ec fans, 2x Mars hydro ts 3000, I have airstones in my res, added supervit and h20, all my room and equipment gets cleaned with bleach thoroughly between cycles.
So yea I'm super frustrated!
Does anyone know if there's some kind of invisible disease or infection that can be doing this?
I've tried this with different strains with same results and even taken clones from the ones I have and they have done well in friends room, so it's not the strain.
I'm asking people around me what could be going on and they're just as puzzled as me!
I'm even beginning to think maybe my nutrients have poison in them or maybe my water supplier has put some extra additive in the water that could be poisoning my plants?
I'm really struck for ideas and I'm hoping someone here might of heard or seen anything like this before??
As I said I've bought them back to life once but it was only temporary.
I'll add some pictures so that you can see what mess I'm in.
Thanks in advance to anyone that even reads this.
 
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J

Jaydee86

59
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I just want to emphasise on the dark stems that you can see in the pictures, when this happens I know they will droop over and start dying, this is the first sign of bad things to come.
The leaves will begin to go a pale light green/yellow with dark veins/stems that you can see contrasting difference between the light and dark.
I'm starting to think it's maybe a disease because I can't see how it's anything that I'm doing or not doing.
 
MyGrowYo

MyGrowYo

236
63
Sounds like you know what your doing, and nothing has changed on your end. So I would investigate the water, fluoride, bleach, who knows what else is in there.
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
Sounds like you know what your doing, and nothing has changed on your end. So I would investigate the water, fluoride, bleach, who knows what else is in there.
Thanks for taking the time to read this man, any bit of advice is appreciated 👍
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
what size pots are those plants in?
Thanks for the reply man appreciate it.
The ones I pulled out to put in soil are 15 litres, the rest are sat in net pots on top the nft tray, both of them are being affected by this mysterious phenomenon.
 
GNick55

GNick55

Staff
Supporter
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i would say change your technique, stop doing NFT as it is very easily for the roots to get a root rot disease/highly prone..
it’s not a widely used technique because of that..
nothing you can do as hope that some of yours will survive..
if not than CLEAN!! everything and get a different technique that your comfortable with..
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
i would say change your technique, stop doing NFT as it is very easily for the roots to get a root rot disease/highly prone..
it’s not a widely used technique because of that..
nothing you can do as hope that some of yours will survive..
if not than CLEAN!! everything and get a different technique that your comfortable with..
Thanks alot for the reply man appreciate it.
I've pulled some out and got them in pots and I'm still having this problem which leaves me to believe that it's not the system and more to do with the environment like a disease??
I've had them come back to life when I changed the light for a dimmable 250w mh.
I slowly introduced the led lights and some ventilation and then the problem comes back.
So now I've gone back to just the 1 mh light.
I'm thinking maybe the led makes it too dry and the humidy levels drop?
I dunno I'm just still trying to guess everything
 
Evr1sFavKush

Evr1sFavKush

34
18
Those LED new to you huh?

You have transpiration issues. Way way to cold for LED. Your room is perfect…for a different light source :)

Get a laser thermometer and get LEAF temps way up. LED will need about a 9 degree increase in temps to reach same leaf temps as an HID room according to Blackdog LED. It’s winter too and your ambient temps are 18-25c so 64-77f and there is a high probability your thermometer and hygrometers aren’t accurately defining your room to you. At that ambient temp, the leaf temps are in the dirt. They need to move water to get nutes. Way too cold for LED.
 
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J

Jaydee86

59
18
What's your DLI?
It was 18 hours under 2x mars hydro ts 3000 at 50% but now on 18 hours of light, now using 400w mh.
I've not done all of the calculations but I've used these lights before no problem.
I'm maybe thinking it could be something to do with vpd and transpiration.
It's like the plants aren't taking up nutrients or water when they're like this and humidity went down to below 40%.
Could this be a cause maybe?
 
J

Jaydee86

59
18
Those LED new to you huh?

You have transpiration issues. Way way to cold for LED. Your room is perfect…for a different light source :)

Get a laser thermometer and get LEAF temps way up. LED will need about a 9 degree increase in temps to reach same leaf temps as an HID room according to Blackdog LED. It’s winter too and your ambient temps are 18-25c so 64-77f. Leaf temps are in the dirt. They need to move water to get nutes. Way too cold for LED.
Wow I think you might be onto something here because it really does look like transpiration issues. I've only got the 1 mh light right now at 600w to try and get temps and humidity up.
This problem started coming back when I added led to the mix, do you think the led would dry it out too much?
I would have to go get myself a ballast to run another hps and maybe then I can just straight up use hps?
 
Evr1sFavKush

Evr1sFavKush

34
18
I say respectfully, do not waste anymore time until you get your leaf temps up and verified with a laser thermometer.

the only bandaid for low transpiration would be higher EC.
 
Evr1sFavKush

Evr1sFavKush

34
18
I know your pain. I dealt with this when I switched my veg to LED. I pulled my hair out.

I also didn’t learn this on my own. I learned it from people willing to share info :)

Edit: I don’t think the LED is really drying them out. Whats happening, is without good transpiration you are getting deficiencies in odd nutrients, ones that usually don’t happen very often such as zinc that caues that dryness (I believe it’s zinc but please don’t quote me on that) and P that is causing your red stems. P uptake is greatly affected by soil/media temps also. You have multiple issues all stemming from the LED imo.
 
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ComfortablyNumb

ComfortablyNumb

5,770
313
Check your root temps, that has way more effect than leaf temps on this. You really need to calculate your DLI. Once you get that, you will understand how to adjust the rest, temps, feed amounts, water...
If your roots are cold, the plant won't grow. But you don't want them too hot either. Between 65 and 75 is great.
 
ComfortablyNumb

ComfortablyNumb

5,770
313
Check your root temps, that has way more effect than leaf temps on this. You really need to calculate your DLI. Once you get that, you will understand how to adjust the rest, temps, feed amounts, water...
If your roots are cold, the plant won't grow. But you don't want them too hot either. Between 65 and 75 is great.
It was 18 hours under 2x mars hydro ts 3000 at 50% but now on 18 hours of light, now using 400w mh.
I've not done all of the calculations but I've used these lights before no problem.
I'm maybe thinking it could be something to do with vpd and transpiration.
It's like the plants aren't taking up nutrients or water when they're like this and humidity went down to below 40%.
Could this be a cause maybe?
They look like they are over watered and heat stressed at the same time. I don't know how those lights project, so you should figure out the DLI on each light.
 
AlfaDog

AlfaDog

210
63
Well for first the water is too cold and will slow the plant growth water around 20 degrees anything under 19ish or lower isn't good and there is zero perlite in that earth it has no aeration perlite help drainage and air at the root zone the pots would dry out a he'll lot faster before you know it you will have algea guaranteed and the cupping of the leaves mean heat stress
 
Bluntsmoke

Bluntsmoke

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63
Looks like clones. What strain? And do you know the history of the mother? I've gotten clones from the dispensary that were nothing but headaches.
 
AlfaDog

AlfaDog

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63
Even in the first photo looks like heat stress at the top and you tried correcting the issue by putting in soil with zero aeration so can't tell ya where to really start anymore
 
AlfaDog

AlfaDog

210
63
And if your saying all your parameters where correct I see you have a fan very close that's prob hitting the plant too much creating wind burn
 

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