Plants dying, looks like overwatering but it's not

  • Thread starter Jaydee86
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MyGrowYo

MyGrowYo

236
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Those LED new to you huh?

You have transpiration issues. Way way to cold for LED. Your room is perfect…for a different light source :)

Get a laser thermometer and get LEAF temps way up. LED will need about a 9 degree increase in temps to reach same leaf temps as an HID room according to Blackdog LED. It’s winter too and your ambient temps are 18-25c so 64-77f and there is a high probability your thermometer and hygrometers aren’t accurately defining your room to you. At that ambient temp, the leaf temps are in the dirt. They need to move water to get nutes. Way too cold for LED.
That study they did is so killer, and I always wonder why I don’t see it around more often. 👍
 
J

Jaydee86

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I know your pain. I dealt with this when I switched my veg to LED. I pulled my hair out.

I also didn’t learn this on my own. I learned it from people willing to share info :)

Edit: I don’t think the LED is really drying them out. Whats happening, is without good transpiration you are getting deficiencies in odd nutrients, ones that usually don’t happen very often such as zinc that caues that dryness (I believe it’s zinc but please don’t quote me on that) and P that is causing your red stems. P uptake is greatly affected by soil/media temps also. You have multiple issues all stemming from the LED imo.
Thanks alot for your help man appreciate it 👍 You were getting these issues too? I think it could make sense.. So yea I've basically just switched out the lights to 2x 600w hps.
If this theory is correct then I should start to notice some differences within the next few days.
I'll let you know if it helps.
 
AlfaDog

AlfaDog

210
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That study they did is so killer, and I always wonder why I don’t see it around more often. 👍
25 degrees is about 77° I have a phytomax-2 1000 and my abient room is 77-78 and my canopy is at 83° average at 30inchs to the canopy unless you run co2 you could bring it up 85-87 at the canopy so i think the cupping might be heat what is the temp at the canopy forget the ambient room temp every light and distance will display a different temp he might have it at 90° for all we know
 
J

Jaydee86

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25 degrees is about 77° I have a phytomax-2 1000 and my abient room is 77-78 and my canopy is at 83° average at 30inchs to the canopy unless you run co2 you could bring it up 85-87 at the canopy so i think the cupping might be heat what is the temp at the canopy forget the ambient room temp every light and distance will display a different temp he might have it at 90° for all we know
Thanks for the reply man, so yea I've just switched the lights for 2x 600w hps.
Temps averaging around 24-25, I've only just switched so will have to check tomorrow what temps I'm getting.
I'm praying they'll do better now under hps
 
T

TryingToGrow

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Keep the pH of your growing medium good and your plants will be good
 
Evr1sFavKush

Evr1sFavKush

34
18
Thanks for the reply man, so yea I've just switched the lights for 2x 600w hps.
Temps averaging around 24-25, I've only just switched so will have to check tomorrow what temps I'm getting.
I'm praying they'll do better now under hps
You know i had this response already typed up so gonna post it anyways but i have a question, and its important...are you using RO water? I looked back and either missed it or its not mentioned. Canna was designed when LED was not a thing, like at all. If youre using RO, in Coco under LEDs (the cal/mag "trifecta"), imvho, you need to supplement at least to 0.2-0.3ec with a quality calmag or supplement your own cal and magnesium in a good ratio. Same with H&G and honestly seems like every coco nute tbh.

Anyways, rest of post:

How are they looking? Any better, worse or the same? Should be enough time to see a change if you played with parameters.

To answer your other post, yes i had similar issues. There is good advice here on cold media temps as well but media temps and leafs temps will be pretty related because these are indoor plants with media that is above ground. Meaning the plant sees the same exposure as the container vs being in the earth where the two are seperate. Raised toom temps also means raised media temps for indoor environments unless were talking chilled dwc.

if environment checks out now with extra heat and they still havent turned around at all then it's food. Canna is great but will definitely need magnesium under LED. You can spray with an epsom salt solution to test for magnesium deficiency pretty quickly so you sont have to apply it in the coco if you dont feel safe altering ratios. There are companies starting specifying different feed schedules for LED now. @8mL canna formula has 98ppm cal and 33ppm mag. Most hydro formulas have 120ppm cal and 40+ mag and still arent right for LED and are exaggerated by ambient conditions.

If you're actually happy with your room temps try 10mL A/B to raise EC. If you cant make them transpire more you can bandaid it by feeding higher EC. At 10mL that will put you in the 122ppm cal and 41ppm mag with their formula but still low on Mag imo. They dont look bad, except for that one thats really sad obviously. Remember that canna has TONS of phosphorus. You need mag to help push its use. Edit: point being you shouldnt hurt anything by adding it
 
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costanza

costanza

57
33
I had this same exact issue on my current grow during the 4th week of veg. What helped for me was putting a heater on at night to try and keep it in the low 70's in the tent. I also transplanted into larger pots and in a few weeks they all bounced back
 
K

Kylle

51
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Are the hooks your reason for N toxicity diagnosis? I'm dealing with N toxicity and it's usually accompanied by dark leaves, even new growth ends up being darker then usual. I wouldn't freak out though, they are redeemable, if you saw my first coco run I'm doing you'd feel better lol. Coco is definetly different. Lotta soil habits to break.
 
costanza

costanza

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33
Are the hooks your reason for N toxicity diagnosis? I'm dealing with N toxicity and it's usually accompanied by dark leaves, even new growth ends up being darker then usual. I wouldn't freak out though, they are redeemable, if you saw my first coco run I'm doing you'd feel better lol. Coco is definetly different. Lotta soil habits to break.
I had a hell of a time growing in coco on my last run. I think I broke the world record for the smallest flowering plant at 9 inches tall. This was her
20210410 191736
 
AlfaDog

AlfaDog

210
63
So I found some amazing info by a professor named Dr. Bruce bugbee😀 so turns out why people use ambient room temp as a guide is because normally your canopy would be around 3 degrees hotter so let's say at 25° would be 28 or 82.5 or 83 degrees leaf temp every genetic and pheno might react different might tolerate more and you could find out in increments or by accident when the plant shows slight signs of stress but whats interesting is a watered plants leaves will be cooler than one slightly thirsty example: a wet towel left on a counter in the sun will read cooler than a dry towel. So vpd is a start but the most important is plant canopy temp and since you didn't have it correct and even tho they were prob hydrated maybe even too much since the plant couldn't transpire leaf canopy temp was WAY LOW if you want what the video skip to about 30min "leaf temp surface temp"
 
Perrin6363

Perrin6363

20
3
Is there anyone out there that has seen or heard of anything like this?
So I'm not a noob and I've successfully grown plants in much harsher conditions than what I'm doing now, I've had them in all kinds of different methods with huge swings and fluctuations in different parameters and thought they would suffer even in 30c heat and below 10c cold, pH swings from 5-7 and I've never seen what I'm experiencing now.
So anyway this is the 4th time now that I can't make it to 12/12 due to this problem I'm having and cannot find why??
I'm using nft mainly as I've pulled some out and potted up in soil/coco mix to see if the problem still persist in which it does so that rules out the growing method.
My pH levels are good 5.8-5.9, ppms around 800, temps fluctuate between 18-25c, water temps around 18c.
Feeding with canna a+b as base nutrients with added h20, my roots all look good, nice white and healthy looking.
The problem I've got looks like overwatering problem but it's not.
Everything is pretty much perfect and no real reason my plants should be dying.
The veins in the leaves are dark almost like a purple hue to them before they start drooping over and start dying in which the leaves have this distinctive papery feel almost like what a banknote feels like, you can feel that the leaves have no moisture feeling to them like very dehydrated.
I thought I solved the issue by switching the led lights (2x Mars hydro ts 3000)
For a 400w mh hps light and they came back to life and started a vigorous growth and then boom they start drooping again and leaves begin to droop and go papery again.
As you can tell I'm very frustrated and I feel like a complete failure as I watch noob growers pot up seeds in their shed and don't even know what ph level means, they don't measure anything and pulling off 2 grams per watt.
Like seriously I have the most perfect setup, 2x 8 inch airforce silent ec fans, 2x Mars hydro ts 3000, I have airstones in my res, added supervit and h20, all my room and equipment gets cleaned with bleach thoroughly between cycles.
So yea I'm super frustrated!
Does anyone know if there's some kind of invisible disease or infection that can be doing this?
I've tried this with different strains with same results and even taken clones from the ones I have and they have done well in friends room, so it's not the strain.
I'm asking people around me what could be going on and they're just as puzzled as me!
I'm even beginning to think maybe my nutrients have poison in them or maybe my water supplier has put some extra additive in the water that could be poisoning my plants?
I'm really struck for ideas and I'm hoping someone here might of heard or seen anything like this before??
As I said I've bought them back to life once but it was only temporary.
I'll add some pictures so that you can see what mess I'm in.
Thanks in advance to anyone that even reads this.
You def have more knowledge on growing pot than I do, but just from an investigation point of view after everything else you've ruled out I would think it would have to be something in the water. What kind of water are you using? Is it possible that it's changed somehow to what you used to use. I'm in my first grow right now, coming towards the end but for a 3 week period I watered with water I picked up at a local spring and I watched my plants slowly start looking unhappy. I went back to what I was using and they perked back up.
 

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