Potential root rot in soil

[maxbaker]

Hi,

This is my second grow and it’s been a bumpier road than my first. I have two plants under 250 W HPS (the MH’s ballast was buzzing too loud) in a mix of regular potting soil and composted soil.

They were very healthy but after I transplanted them into the composted mix I started noticing problems.

I posted on the forums for help and was advised that it could be a salt build up from the compost. So I decided to flush it and the plant improved so I thought the problem was solved. I also had high ppm run off of around 2K.

Along the way I had saprophytic fungus problems so I had to remove it from the top layer and apply cinnamon powder which has kept it at bay, but literally any spot I missed developed fungus.

The soil has been taking weeks to dry off and I’ve had to resort to foliar feeding.

I’m beginning to think that I might have had some root rot this whole time. The sativa is much more affected than the Indica but they both show the same signs. Also, the indicas soil has been drying much faster.

I can’t figure out the reason why the soil isn’t drying fast enough. My temp is around 25-28 C and humidity 60%. I feel like the sativa is taking longer to dry because it lost a lot leaves before I flushed it, and the pot is further away from the light/heat as the sativa is taller than the indica. I know it could be the potting soil mix but I have my doubts as it’s from a good company. I also have sufficient drainage holes and apart from when I flushed, i don't water until run-off.

I did some research on root rot in soil and my plants aren’t drooping nor have they stopped growing. You can see in the pictures that it’s spread out randomly as well. The new growth is a promising healthy green but I fear it will not last as some have yellow tips. I’m also still losing leaves but at a slower pace.

Can I put the plants outdoors in a temp of around 35 C to help the drying?

I’m worried that If I don’t do something soon they will definitely develop root rot if they haven’t already. I also won't be able to feed the plant through the soil if it's taking so long to dry. It seems like my options are to make a homemade fungicide out of apple cider (as I don’t have access to hydro-guard or similar products) or to transplant.

I was planning on flowering as soon as things stabilize.

Any advice is much appreciated!

Sativa:
Leaf Symptom:

Before flushing:

After Flushing:

Indica:
Before flushing:

After flushing:

 

[JWM2]

What kind of soil mix are you in? Sounds like you need more Perlite. Use lots of Perlite in your soil mix. I like to add it to even premixed bags of soil as most of them don’t have enough of it. Perlite helps keep the soil from clumping, helps the roots get more oxygen, and helps the soil dry out quicker. If you are using pots that are too large it can take an extra couple days to dry out properly. Of course this is assuming you are using soil and not a coco based growing medium.

 

[maxbaker]

What kind of soil mix are you in? Sounds like you need more Perlite. Use lots of Perlite in your soil mix. I like to add it to even premixed bags of soil as most of them don’t have enough of it. Perlite helps keep the soil from clumping, helps the roots get more oxygen, and helps the soil dry out quicker. If you are using pots that are too large it can take an extra couple days to dry out properly. Of course this is assuming you are using soil and not a coco based growing medium.

Hi!

I don't think you'll be familiar with the brand, it's a local company and I live far away. I've used it with vegetables with great results and no drying problems but they were outdoors and the heat would've taken care of that.

I also mixed it with composted soil which caused a salt build up.

I have extra perlite but how could I add it without disrupting the roots?
I'm considering transplanting the sativa but I'm kind of worried it dies in the process?


Thanks for the help!

 

[Dirtbag]

Yeesh... Maybe take a few cuttings just in case things go even more sideways?

 

[PlumberSoCal]

Hi!

I don't think you'll be familiar with the brand, it's a local company and I live far away. I've used it with vegetables with great results and no drying problems but they were outdoors and the heat would've taken care of that.

I also mixed it with composted soil which caused a salt build up.

I have extra perlite but how could I add it without disrupting the roots?
I'm considering transplanting the sativa but I'm kind of worried it dies in the process?


Thanks for the help!

Not wise to transplant when stressed.

Salt buildup in compost? What were you composting? I've never had any issues with compost and salt and I do a lot of horse manure composting.

 

[maxbaker]

Not wise to transplant when stressed.

Salt buildup in compost? What were you composting? I've never had any issues with compost and salt and I do a lot of horse manure composting.

I bought the composted soil.

The info on bag says:
Density: 400G/L
Moisture: 22%
Organic matter: 45%
Nitrogen: 0.8
E.C: 1.2 DSM

Coco Peat, Washed sand, Perlite, organic stimulants, compost.

This was mixed with potting soil from another company.

I didn't think compost could be harmful, but i was getting 2k ppm after I flushed, and it did improve after flushing.

I just put them outdoors for a while to help them dry. Should i try the apple cider? but that wouldn't help the drying.

 

[PlumberSoCal]

I bought the composted soil.

The info on bag says:
Density: 400G/L
Moisture: 22%
Organic matter: 45%
Nitrogen: 0.8
E.C: 1.2 DSM

Coco Peat, Washed sand, Perlite, organic stimulants, compost.

This was mixed with potting soil from another company.

I didn't think compost could be harmful, but i was getting 2k ppm after I flushed, and it did improve after flushing.

I just put them outdoors for a while to help them dry. Should i try the apple cider? but that wouldn't help the drying.

It was the coco. It's grown near the ocen and must be flushed before use. Some, like what you have is really full. I bought 40 qts a month ago and flushed with bottled water, 0.2 ppm and it came out over 300 ppm. That wasn't too bad but all of it needs to flushed.

 

[oldskol4evr]

not giving enough info for help mate,have you done a slurry test on the soil to even know what you have?are you just feeding water?was the compost even for green and browns?WHY THE HELL ARE YOU FLUSHING SOIL?you say your drainage is fine,i see the pots sitting in something and the hole in that pot i cant see so there on bottom right,composted manure dries like a rock and this can very well stop some drainage if your courious,pick up the pot and smell the bottom,does it have a rank smell other than soil?
sorry to be hard but sometimes it what it takes to open eyes for maybe the old bastards right,first off sativa plants dont bulk up like indica there tall lanky plants,your before and after pic tell it all as far as the mistake you made flushing soil,just saying look at edges of plants all they were getting is now gone,the plants arent drying out because the plant isnt up taking nutes across the board.
look 5 thousand folks gonna tell you what to do to guess at fixing,no choice because lack of info if you dig,from the looks of plants i highly doubt you can get clones,stems look woody,even with reg soil from your yard and compost will grow plants if maintained right,soil is just dirt when you add some bottle fertilizers and even with dry ferts they just need a small bit,packages say every thing about the nutes in the bag,those pots wouldnt be no more than a couple tbsp of dry fert scratched into top of soil.why let the pot dry?there is another problem,buy a soil moisture probe,not them cheap pieces of crap that have ph,moisture,lumens,there useless,buy a probe just for moisture there not that expensive,keep your soil at 45 to 55% moisture,let it dry to 45 and feed and or water,you let manure dry out and its done and it takes a whole bunch of water to rehydrate it as in enough to just drown the plant.
next what are you feeding it and how often? some plants are hogs some you never even feed at all like the sativa plant,if it is close to landrace strain most of them perfect soil around 6.5 and a colony of hungry beenies is all it needs,it might not even need feed when the other do,only water when needed,i know you end game is i cant wait to smoke these bitchs but you have to have patience and treat her right so the favor is returned,patience grass hopper,anyway no info so i am just guessing also hope i helped and the tough justice well what can i say other than i try to help all to garden and stay away from the chemical plants that sell the smoke in your lungs,they are just for profit and dont give a shit about you,just your money

 

[Jimster]

Compost can burn the shit out of your plants, especially if you are using straight compost, which thankfully you are not. I would check the Ph, as compost is still active and can turn acidic pretty easily in some situations. It also holds a lot of water. I would recommend a 20% mix of compost along with whatever else you are mixing in, but use a lot of perlite to keep the soil loose and aerated. It will dry out a lot faster and save you from pulling your hair out later. I have never had good results from using a soil based growing medium, as too much water turns into mud, in my experience. I started using Promix and have had no problems since. I have seen some great results using soil based grows, but they usually take a few trials to get it perfect. Keep the ph between 6 and 7, and keep the feeding to the minimum that you need. Fertilizer manufacturers have recommendations that would make a redwood fat, so a half dose is usually more than enough. I hope your grow returns to it's former glory. Leaves with damage won't recover, but new growth should look good when you solve the issues. Good Luck!

 

[az2000]

If your soil is slow-drying, you can help it dry by aerating it. I use a 1/8" diameter aluminum rod. I cut a piece 18" long, put one end in a drill, spun the other end against a metal file to put a rounded/pointed tip on it (less damage to the roots). I bent the other end 90-degrees to make a handle. I use that occasionally in late veg, through flower to loosen the soil a little. You don't want to go crazy and entirely perforate your soil (damaging the root). But, 5-6 perforations after each watering/feeding would be sane, and could help. (It's a balance. My soil is light and airy. I only do 2-3 pokes, maybe every other watering.).

 

[dreamgreen]

Doesn’t look like root rot to me. I just cured my mothers of that. Symptoms were twisted, warped leaves and stems on some branches only, with super thick knobby stems in places. From everything you’ve said, it sounds like over feeding to me, along with poor drainage. Potential for root rot is there, but i don’t see it happening yet.

 

[Beachwalker]

Smell the bottom of the pot

 

[JWM2]

I meant to mix more Perlite into your soil mix before putting your plants in them. By having additional Perlite the soil will drain and dry out easier (and quicker) and it won’t clump up as much. You really can’t have too much Perlite in your soil mix.

 

[Beachwalker]

What are you feeding? could be over-watering could be pH, could be overfed too? Likely a combination; to me it looks like overwatering is the main culprit but that's just a guess without knowing what you're feeding and your pH, PPM Etc., I would do a slurry test too

 

[maxbaker]

Apologies for the lack of info ill try to include everything this time.

Keep in mind that you won’t be familiar with the products available to me so I’ll try and give you all the info I have.

General Info: Two plants under a 250W HPS. Temp 79-82 F. Humidity 60-70 %. Usually closer to 60%.

SOIL INFO:

1) I had two nurseries both very healthy in a potting soil mix for vegetables. I don’t have any information about this 1st soil but I have used it several times with vegetables with great results.

2) I transplanted them to two pots, each around 12”(height) x13”(Diameter) which I think is around a 4 gallon pot. You can see drainage holes pictures (a) below for one pot. The other has the same holes. I was watering only when top ~2" of soil were dry.

3) In these new pots I mixed the 1st soil with another composted soil mix at 1-1 ratio. I put the composted soil at the bottom of the pot and the normal one on top. My thought was that when the plant matured the roots would dig deeper and get to the compost. This is all the information I have about this 2nd composted potting soil:

Contents:
“Enriched Potting mix for all purposes”
Coco Peat- Washed Sand – Perlite – Organic stimulants – Compost
Density: 400G/L
Moisture: 22%
Organic matter: 45%
Nitrogen: 0.8
PH: 6.8
E.C: 1.2 DSM

SALT BUILD UP & DRYING PROBLEMS

4) Shortly after transplanting I started noticing problems in picture (b). The problem was randomly spread out. I also noticed the soil was taking longer to dry, around a week or so. Until this point I was only watering when the top layer was dry and would water around 1.5 Litres at most (0.4 gallons). I still had not fed the plants anything.

5) I posted for help and was advised that it was a salt build up. Which made sense to me because nothing else changed apart from the soil. I still hadn’t fed it anything as I assumed the compost would provide what it needs for a while. I was pHing my water at ~ 6.3.

FLUSHING

6) I decided to flush but was worried that I could also be over-watering so I did a ‘half- flush’ where I gave it water until around 1 Litre of run-off, maybe even less. The reasoning behind flushing is that I thought it would remove the extra salt from the soil.

7) The plant improved slightly so I was happy and I thought it was definitely the salt built. But the soil wasn’t drying and this is the first time I got saprophytic fungus. I removed it and applied cinnamon powder and small amount of baking soda diluted in water.

8) Despite improvements I was still losing leaves so I decided that once the soil dried a bit I would flush it again to finally rid it of the excess salt. This time I waited until I had around 2.5 Litres of runoff for each plant. I measured the run-off and I had 2K ppm. Which I realise isn’t the most accurate measurement and I should’ve done a slurry test.

MORE DRYING PROBLEMS & FEEDING

9) I waited a few days and saw further improvements but I kept getting saprophytic fungus and the soil wasn’t drying. I definitely noticed new growth faster than before and it was a healthy green but it would eventually also get yellowing tips and then turn yellow.

10) I decided to feed after around 10 days. The indicas soil was now drying but the sativa was still very moist so I decided to go with foliar feeding. The fertilizer has the following ingredients:

Nitrogen: 6.5%
Phosphorus: 5.5%
Potassium: 5%
Then zinc, magnesium, boron, calcium, humic acid, amino acids.
I made a mix with water pH 6.3 and 500 PPM as it was my first time trying this fertilizer.

11) The plant seemed to respond well so around 3 days later I fed it again (still foliar), this time mixing it with another general 20-20-20 fertilizer with only N, P and K. Raising the PPM to 1K. PH 6.3

12) After a few days I fed the Sativa again with that same mix. But for the Indica I fed through the soil as it was dryer now. I fed the indica with a mix of both fertilizers, but mainly the 20-20-20, adding some molasses as well, as I read it helps prevent salt build up and is also beneficial to the plant. (It is 100% natural molasses). Fed it 1.5 Litres with Ph 6.3. ~1k PPM.

13) Now I was worried about the road ahead because the sativa is barely drying and the Indica is only drying fast enough for me to feed it which could cause salt problems again.

14) I should’ve done this ages ago but I just did slurry tests. Used equal parts soil and purified water, mixed well, let sit for 15 minutes, then repeated and filtered with coffee filter.
Sativa: 600 PPM. --- PH ~6.4
Indica: 600 PPM --- PH ~6.2
I'm guessing this ppm is low and I should raise it.

15) I’m going to stick the plants outside when i can to help it dry faster. I’ll also try the pipe method to help aerate. Not sure what I’m going to do about feeding but I guess ill stick to foliar feeding and try and get some through the soil when I can, keeping in mind not to create salt-build up again while also avoiding over-watering.

The situation is a mess so I’m just going to go into flowering and hope for the best.

I really appreciate all the help and I’ll update with the final results.

Next time I won’t be using the second composted potting soil.

Should i use apple cider as a preventative measure?

@oldskol4evr I hope I answered all your questions. I appreciate your effort and advice! I will look into buying a good moisture probe.
@PlumberSoCal Interesting, I think you’re right about the coco. I'll keep in eye for that in the future. Slurry tests all day!
@JWM2 Thanks! Ill be adding plently of perlite next time, which is what I did in my 1st grow when I made my own mix.
@Beachwalker The bottom of the pots do not smell and the roots visible from there look healthy.
@dreamgreen Thanks, I agree i don't think I have root rot but I'm worried i will eventually. Will flower soon and hope to harvest before anything develops.
@Jimster I definitely won't be using that composted mix again. Maybe Ill just add some compost in the later stages, or in a very little amount at the start.
@az2000 Thanks, will be trying this today.

On a funner note and to prove i'm not a complete fool, you can find pictures of my first grow: White widow, at least i think it was since I had bonus seeds from my order and they got mixed up, either that or afghan kush, looked more WW to me. Not as good as what you're used to but I'm proud considering i didn't have access to any cannabis tailored products or products that have been tried and tested by the community, as well as no one to turn to for advice. I can't tell you how much reading i did. It also didn't help that there was so many different methods and conflicting ideas out there. hydro vs soil. organic vs non-organic. nutrient companies. etc etc but it's definitely become a hobby!

A) Drainage holes:

B) First signs, soon after transplanting:
Sativa:

Indica:

First grow:

I accidentally split the main stem from LST and didn't realise until it had already dried up that way. Yield: ~65 grams

 

[JWM2]

Looks like your first grow went pretty well. It’s a learning process and if you’re like me you’re always trying to find ways to improve. As you become familiar with your strains, grow medium, ferts and environment your end product and results will get better and better. Kudos.