Ppm And Nutrient Burn?

[Fresh Starts]

I recently learned that i need to control the PPM in my feeding depending on not just the stage of life but also how healthy it is? Does this cause nutrient burn?

First off, certain fertilizer brands will recommend PPM ranges on their feeding schedules and one thing you have to understand is that not all PPM charts are the same. For the most part american company's use a .5 conversion scale and European company's will use a .7 scale. If you have doubts consult with the brand names website for more information about what scale they use or ask someone who is using that brand.

Getting back to your question.
Yes, controlling PPM is important and you can cause nutrient burn by overdosing your plants with fertilizer. Most brands will have a window to stay within for corresponding stages of plant life. This information can be found on most fertilizer brand websites. Look for feeding schedules. For instance seedlings to young plants can feed on 200-400 PPM, Teenage plants that have a maturing root zone can feed on 350-550 PPM and adults will feed 600-1000 PPM. The more you feed plants and watch them grow you'll get a feel for how much to give them. Less is more when trying to grasp this concept.

Im a beginner so im trying to do this right. I bought a ppm meter, 30$... starting with water at 80ppm i added the 'light feeding' dosage of cal mag, 1/4 the dosage of my vegetative nutrient. (organic bio food) 1/4 the dosage of a vegatative nutrient (organic bio food rich in nitrogen. And a tsp of 'sparetime supply' trace mineral additive. This brought the ppm up to about 400. And i fed my vegging girls. Now. What im asking is, if I'm controlling ppm, will that help keep me from nutrient burn? Or is this just one of many factors to control when feeding.

This is a good question and it is one that leads into multiple areas of plant growth control.
Yes, controlling the PPM ranges will avoid nutrient burn. One of the ways to tell if you are overfeeding is the color of green on your plant. The plant should have supple lime green leaves instead of dull dark green leaves. Check out pictures of healthy plants then google "nitrogen toxicity cannabis" and compare the green in both pictures. This topic is also related to optimum saturation in the soil

The ph of the water was near neutral before i mixed the organic nutes. Does ph change after i mix in nutrients? Writing down everything i do and when. Things are going relatively well

Most fertilizers (whether organic or synthetic) will decrease the PH of your water. Some one up there said this already- you want to adjust the PH of your feed after you add all the fertilizers to the water first.

Okay so i mix my concoction of water and nutes, measure ppm and ph. Once those are balanced its okay to feed? Keeping these two things balanced should be what i need to avoid nutrient burn?

Yes, you are correct to 1) Mix. 2) Measure PPM 3) Adjust PH 4) Feed
I would add 5) Maintain optimum saturation of soil/media

Don't let it get too dry. Don't overwater. You'll get it with practice. If you feel lost you can always buy a moisture meter.

Is there a rule of thumb when it comes to changing the amount of salts your putting into your soil throughout its life. I measured the nutes at 400 ppm. They're in late veg. About to go into flower. Can my ppm increase over its life cycle?

Definitely. As the plant matures it's metabolism will increase and will require more food more often. A good place to figure out how much to feed how often is to read up on threads where people are using your exact same choice of soil/media. Experienced gardeners will point you in the right direction (hopefully). Don't be afraid to ask questions but be prepared for all the zany responses that might lead you in different directions. Read as much as you can.

Good Luck

 

[gardnguyahoy]

Thank you fresh. I was beginning to get frustrated tying to ask my questions, gracefully accept the wisdom i was being given and still not getting the information i was after. I learned a ton from this thread and have already applied not only what i needed to know, but the great info dropped on me whilst trying to learn about it. You really Hit all the nails on the head, taught me a ton i needed to know, and reaffirmed a few things i had learned or read elsewhere. Long story short, that was priceless info, and im a newbie so i did nothing to deserve it. So thanks man. Thanks for your time. Thank you kilo, Apollo, joe, op. thank you. This is a process n a half, and every sentence i read seems to be info i cant grow without... So yeah, im fkn stoked to grow these buds right now!

So fresh, after i heard you mention the dark green leaves I noticed my smaller sativa plant had nice lime green leaves. But that all my large plants are dark green. When i first transplanted them i put them in way too big of pots, too much soil like a dumb beginner hoping it would get me a bigger plant.

I knew nothing about ppm or measuring ph after mixing your feed. And i fertilized EVERY watering.

After getting used to measuring nutes i realized i was probably putting over 1000 ppms worth of salts in every feeding....Its been about 6-7 weeks of veg. They grew really slow, lots of issues, light problems, lots of grow medium problems.... Anyhow, 6 weeks later, the girls are a decent size.

However, i think theres a horrid salt build up going on in there. So much space, no roots to soak it up, watering after watering. Anyways. Take a look. I just gave her the super crop training and trimmed her bottom leaves up yesterday, it was a lot taller and fuller then it is in the picture today. Shes still recovering.

First picture. Is the leaf in question. The temp stays a constant low to mid 70's while the light is on, around 70 when its off at night. I measure the temp on the ceiling of the room. In the middle of the room just above where the light is, and down at the canopy of the plants. None of them vary from each other by more than two or three degrees. So i dont think its heat issues.
Possible it was too close to the light but there were 6-7 other leaves waay closer to the arc tube and they still had flawless green growth.
No pests, no diseases that i know of. Not really sure what else to report

 

[gardnguyahoy]

Thats my smaller super lemon haze... Shes got some weird coloration as well...

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

First off, certain fertilizer brands will recommend PPM ranges on their feeding schedules and one thing you have to understand is that not all PPM charts are the same. For the most part american company's use a .5 conversion scale and European company's will use a .7 scale. If you have doubts consult with the brand names website for more information about what scale they use or ask someone who is using that brand.

Getting back to your question.
Yes, controlling PPM is important and you can cause nutrient burn by overdosing your plants with fertilizer. Most brands will have a window to stay within for corresponding stages of plant life. This information can be found on most fertilizer brand websites. Look for feeding schedules. For instance seedlings to young plants can feed on 200-400 PPM, Teenage plants that have a maturing root zone can feed on 350-550 PPM and adults will feed 600-1000 PPM. The more you feed plants and watch them grow you'll get a feel for how much to give them. Less is more when trying to grasp this concept.


This is a good question and it is one that leads into multiple areas of plant growth control.
Yes, controlling the PPM ranges will avoid nutrient burn. One of the ways to tell if you are overfeeding is the color of green on your plant. The plant should have supple lime green leaves instead of dull dark green leaves. Check out pictures of healthy plants then google "nitrogen toxicity cannabis" and compare the green in both pictures. This topic is also related to optimum saturation in the soil


Most fertilizers (whether organic or synthetic) will decrease the PH of your water. Some one up there said this already- you want to adjust the PH of your feed after you add all the fertilizers to the water first.



Yes, you are correct to 1) Mix. 2) Measure PPM 3) Adjust PH 4) Feed
I would add 5) Maintain optimum saturation of soil/media

Don't let it get too dry. Don't overwater. You'll get it with practice. If you feel lost you can always buy a moisture meter.



Definitely. As the plant matures it's metabolism will increase and will require more food more often. A good place to figure out how much to feed how often is to read up on threads where people are using your exact same choice of soil/media. Experienced gardeners will point you in the right direction (hopefully). Don't be afraid to ask questions but be prepared for all the zany responses that might lead you in different directions. :bookworm:Read as much as you can.:bookworm:

Good Luck

Spot on @Fresh Starts +5 rep Really like and agree with the very last statement "read as much as you can"

 

[KiLoEleMeNt]

Yes i agree. This may be true. However common growers usially have common sense and use common ppm/e.c. meters. (All which in turn none that I know of run a euro ec.) Some, no most, great/trusted nutrients are from or run an aus e.c.

That said I now ask you what do you suggest would be less confusing, explaining it in genral terms of use and store of or something that would be a little more like this (please bare with me here and trybto keep up if you cant dont worrie its all relative to nute line meter and area).
I will try to simply explain this which I was trying to avoid and it gets a little bit more confusing for everyone, but is through and an in depth look at the same problem you speak of. I hope this helps and dose not hinder the process for everyone or atleast some...

Let's start off with,
CF, EC, PPM 500, PPM 700, TDS... What's the difference?

Well CF and EC are measures of electrically charged nutrient ions in a solution. Pure water will not conduct electricity. Water usually conducts electricity because it is full of impurities, in our case, electrically charged nutrient ions. The two black dots on the end of Bluelab nutrient probes are called electrodes. When these are placed in a solution, an electrical current passes from one electrode, through the water to the other electrode and counts the number of electrically charged ions present. This represents the units measured - CF or EC.

Then PPM measures parts per million. ppm is known as dimensionless quantities; that is, they are pure numbers with no associated units of measurement. A mass concentration of 2mg/kg - 2 parts per million - 2ppm - 2 x 10-6.

There are many different scales used for different industries around the world and for many different reasons! Did you even know there are more than two scales? The most widely used scales in Hydroponics are the 500 scale, 650 scale and the 700 scale.

What's the difference you are now probably asking yourself? Well, The ppm 700 scale is based on measuring the KCl or potassium chloride content of a solution. The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content of a solution and is also referred to as TDS - total dissolved solids which idms the most common of the measure. Individual nutrient ions have different electrical effects! The true ppm of a solution can only be determined by a chemical analysis making this entire posting somewhat redundant and a bit bias. In Lou of this conundrum I will say, ppm cannot be accurately measured by a CF or EC meter. They are present on Bluelab products as a conversion guide only. The conversion is as follows:

2.4EC x 500 = 1200ppm (500 scale) or 1200ppm / 500 = 2.4EC

2.4EC x 700 = 1680ppm (700 scale) or 1680ppm / 700 = 2.4EC

If you are reading from a book that says you should grow your crop at 1100ppm - how do you know which scale the writer is referring to? Is the scale on your ppm meter right for the job? If the book was written in the USA, it could be the 650 or 500 scale. If the book is written in the UK, it could be the 700 scale. If it was written in Australia, well it could be any of the three! Also i want to add in that If you must grow using ppm (suggested not to do this), you will need to know the following scales and how to use them》

What ppm scale am I referring to you say? That all depends on what ppm scale is your meter using? Which standard or calibration solution should you use for your meter? What ppm scale is the nutrient formula referring to? These Are ALL Questions THAT MUST Be ANSWERED Before YOU CAN ACTUALLY Be Certain To WHAT You Are calculating as well as where your ec,ppm,tds stands.

Here this may help a bit more to get the fog out of the room however don't quote me on this I don't know if blu lab is on key ot not they could have pulled this out of their ass for marketing purposes but I would assume that it is correct or they would lose much buisness dropping BS.
(Courtesy of BlueLab
Manufacturer Scale
Advanced Nutrients 700 scale

Botanicare 700 scale

CES/Cutting Edge Solutions 500 scale

Dutch Master 500 scale
Dyna-Gro 500 scale

FoxFarm 700 scale using dechlorinated tap water

General Hydroponics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

General Organics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

House & Garden 700 scale

Humboldt Nutrients 500 scale
Hydro Organics/Earth Juice 500 scale
Nectar for the Gods 700 scale
Rock Nutrients 700 scale
Roots Organics 500 scale
Soul 500 scale

Technaflora 500 scale

Now that you know which scale to use, check out our selection of meters.

Also handy is this PPM conversion chart:

I have done the research and sent the emails. I am positive this is why we have explained this particular subject the way it has been said before we got here. This chart however will explain commonly accepted techniques/methods used by most all growers this day in age. So again I ask you @Dumme what explainable way was more confusing?

 

[Lynch_Ironside]

Yes i agree. This may be true. However common growers usially have common sense and use common ppm/e.c. meters. (All which in turn none that I know of run a euro ec.) Some, no most, great/trusted nutrients are from or run an aus e.c.

That said I now ask you what do you suggest would be less confusing, explaining it in genral terms of use and store of or something that would be a little more like this (please bare with me here and trybto keep up if you cant dont worrie its all relative to nute line meter and area).
I will try to simply explain this which I was trying to avoid and it gets a little bit more confusing for everyone, but is through and an in depth look at the same problem you speak of. I hope this helps and dose not hinder the process for everyone or atleast some...

Let's start off with,
CF, EC, PPM 500, PPM 700, TDS... What's the difference?

Well CF and EC are measures of electrically charged nutrient ions in a solution. Pure water will not conduct electricity. Water usually conducts electricity because it is full of impurities, in our case, electrically charged nutrient ions. The two black dots on the end of Bluelab nutrient probes are called electrodes. When these are placed in a solution, an electrical current passes from one electrode, through the water to the other electrode and counts the number of electrically charged ions present. This represents the units measured - CF or EC.

Then PPM measures parts per million. ppm is known as dimensionless quantities; that is, they are pure numbers with no associated units of measurement. A mass concentration of 2mg/kg - 2 parts per million - 2ppm - 2 x 10-6.

There are many different scales used for different industries around the world and for many different reasons! Did you even know there are more than two scales? The most widely used scales in Hydroponics are the 500 scale, 650 scale and the 700 scale.

What's the difference you are now probably asking yourself? Well, The ppm 700 scale is based on measuring the KCl or potassium chloride content of a solution. The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content of a solution and is also referred to as TDS - total dissolved solids which idms the most common of the measure. Individual nutrient ions have different electrical effects! The true ppm of a solution can only be determined by a chemical analysis making this entire posting somewhat redundant and a bit bias. In Lou of this conundrum I will say, ppm cannot be accurately measured by a CF or EC meter. They are present on Bluelab products as a conversion guide only. The conversion is as follows:

2.4EC x 500 = 1200ppm (500 scale) or 1200ppm / 500 = 2.4EC

2.4EC x 700 = 1680ppm (700 scale) or 1680ppm / 700 = 2.4EC

If you are reading from a book that says you should grow your crop at 1100ppm - how do you know which scale the writer is referring to? Is the scale on your ppm meter right for the job? If the book was written in the USA, it could be the 650 or 500 scale. If the book is written in the UK, it could be the 700 scale. If it was written in Australia, well it could be any of the three! Also i want to add in that If you must grow using ppm (suggested not to do this), you will need to know the following scales and how to use them》

What ppm scale am I referring to you say? That all depends on what ppm scale is your meter using? Which standard or calibration solution should you use for your meter? What ppm scale is the nutrient formula referring to? These Are ALL Questions THAT MUST Be ANSWERED Before YOU CAN ACTUALLY Be Certain To WHAT You Are calculating as well as where your ec,ppm,tds stands.

Here this may help a bit more to get the fog out of the room however don't quote me on this I don't know if blu lab is on key ot not they could have pulled this out of their ass for marketing purposes but I would assume that it is correct or they would lose much buisness dropping BS.
(Courtesy of BlueLab
Manufacturer Scale
Advanced Nutrients 700 scale

Botanicare 700 scale

CES/Cutting Edge Solutions 500 scale

Dutch Master 500 scale
Dyna-Gro 500 scale

FoxFarm 700 scale using dechlorinated tap water

General Hydroponics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

General Organics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

House & Garden 700 scale

Humboldt Nutrients 500 scale
Hydro Organics/Earth Juice 500 scale
Nectar for the Gods 700 scale
Rock Nutrients 700 scale
Roots Organics 500 scale
Soul 500 scale

Technaflora 500 scale

Now that you know which scale to use, check out our selection of meters.

Also handy is this PPM conversion chart:
View attachment 549455

I have done the research and sent the emails. I am positive this is why we have explained this particular subject the way it has been said before we got here. This chart however will explain commonly accepted techniques/methods used by most all growers this day in age. So again I ask you @Dumme what explainable way was more confusing?

Superb information, thank you for sharing. I did have a question going back to the beginning of the post. I'm relatively new at this but just wanted to clarify...

In the beginning of the post its stated that he is growing in organic soil, I was under the impression that if one grows in soil then the ec/ ppm wouldn't be much of a concern as opposed to growing hydroponically or through coco coir? This is also assuming you're following reccomended doses at the correct stages and you dont live in Flint Michigan.