Question about lighting cycles

[maximusluminous]

I did like ForthCity's post. It's not off-topic. However, you and I got on the subject of driver efficiency which is indeed different than LED efficiency.

his post is a quote of a post that I made earlier to show how efficient photoboost strips are..lol

LED's without any question are way more efficient the lower current they are ran at, no one anywhere claims otherwise just as no one claims drivers run more efficiently at lower power even tho that is odd in a way but its true!

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Why aren't you talking about both? If you are talking about the overall efficiency of the fixture, dimming decreases driver efficiency while increasing led efficiency, its a trade off with benefits, not just some useless feature light manufacturers have added for no reason.

I agree. You're right. It's only one part of a 2 part system.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

his post is a quote of a post that I made earlier to show how efficient photoboost strips are..lol

LED's without any question are way more efficient the lower current they are ran at, no one anywhere claims otherwise just as no one claims drivers run more efficiently at lower power even tho that is odd in a way but its true!

The efficiency of the driver may go down as you dim ... but if you go back I did state originally that LED efficiency goes up. Over-all, lower current (amps) means lower power draw regardless of driver efficiency. Where I called you out was in feeling that Mean-well's claims of 95% efficiency is the gospel truth. I dispute Mean-well's claim. You've made it clear you believe them ... I believe they're distorting the figures a bit.

 

[maximusluminous]

Why aren't you talking about both? If you are talking about the overall efficiency of the fixture, dimming decreases driver efficiency while increasing led efficiency, its a trade off with benefits, not just some useless feature light manufacturers have added for no reason.

talking about both is what I have done... my point from earlier was led's run more efficiently at lower current but dimming an LED driver lowers the efficiency of the driver (which is 100% true) so in all reality you raise the efficiency of the LED's at low current but you counteract that gain by dimming a the driver thus losing driver efficiency thus you have lowered the over all system efficiency negating the LED efficiency gain.. that was my point earlier. I have seen #'s where 94% efficient drivers only run at 85% efficient when dimmed to 70%.... the moral of the story being, Run the led's at lower power with a smaller driver running 100% & raise & lower as needed at 100% power rather than dimming the driver to replace lowering or raising the fixture because you just lose system efficiency by dimming it.. want the whole LED system to run more effecient then use less power don't dim them!

 

[MIMedGrower]

thats why I went with the 320XL set up by HLG, its the most efficient set up they have at 107 watts per board x 3 boards when their mac daddy 600 watt 4 board light sends 150 watts per board.. their 260xl sends 130 watts per board x 2 boards. I think my 320 will way out last any light they sell & it costs more too per watt.. thats why strips rule, the photoboost strips would only be run at half power, next to no heat thus last forever & a day!

Thats the advantage to a bunch of 50 watt cobs a foot apart too.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I did like ForthCity's post. It's not off-topic. However, you and I got on the subject of driver efficiency which is indeed different than LED efficiency.

My fault. I brought up diode degradation. ;-)

 

[FourthCity]

talking about both is what I have done... my point from earlier was led's run more efficiently at lower current but dimming an LED driver lowers the efficiency of the driver (which is 100% true) so in all reality you raise the efficiency of the LED's at low current but you counteract that gain by dimming a the driver thus losing driver efficiency thus you have lowered the over all system efficiency negating the LED efficiency gain.. that was my point earlier. I have seen #'s where 94% efficient drivers only run at 85% efficient when dimmed to 70%.... the moral of the story being, Run the led's at lower power with a smaller driver running 100% & raise & lower as needed at 100% power rather than dimming the driver to replace lowering or raising the fixture because you just lose system efficiency by dimming it.. want the whole LED system to run more effecient then use less power don't dim them!

Raising and lowering the light effects the overall foot print and is only practical to a degree. Not only that but the best part about using the dimmer vs a weaker driver running 100% is that as your plants need more light you will have the ability to provide it.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

talking about both is what I have done... my point from earlier was led's run more efficiently at lower current but dimming an LED driver lowers the efficiency of the driver (which is 100% true) so in all reality you raise the efficiency of the LED's at low current but you counteract that gain by dimming a the driver thus losing driver efficiency thus you have lowered the over all system efficiency negating the LED efficiency gain.. that was my point earlier. I have seen #'s where 94% efficient drivers only run at 85% efficient when dimmed to 70%.... the moral of the story being, Run the led's at lower power with a smaller driver running 100% & raise & lower as needed at 100% power rather than dimming the driver to replace lowering or raising the fixture because you just lose system efficiency by dimming it.. want the whole LED system to run more effecient then use less power don't dim them!

And how we got there was because I said I have more light than I need for a 5 x 5. Why? Because the price was right. If I upgrade my grow area, it's no longer too much lighting. I also have 2 tents. Just happens that 1900 wall watts is still in the one. lol

 

[maximusluminous]

Raising and lowering the light effects the overall foot print and is only practical to a degree. Not only that but the best part about using the dimmer vs a weaker driver running 100% is that as your plants need more light you will have the ability to provide it.

do you realize how fast a driver can be swapped? 5 seconds man/...lol so have a 240 driver for veg & a 320 for flower or whatever, LED drivers are not that much a 240 meanwell is like $60, the 320 is $85.. swap when needed & always run at 100%. Its literally 2 wires & 2 wago connectors to swap one!

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Raising and lowering the light effects the overall foot print and is only practical to a degree. Not only that but the best part about using the dimmer vs a weaker driver running 100% is that as your plants need more light you will have the ability to provide it.

Raising and lowering the light .... Actually, this brings up an interesting point. I'm not sure what thread it was, but recently there was one that had a 45 minute video. Some of that video also ties into this. The presenter in that video seemed to state that raising your lights could aid in a more even canopy of light. He was stating that the difference between high and low is more equal to each other with raising your lights higher (provided you have enough lighting to begin with). I found that interesting.

 

[maximusluminous]

Raising and lowering the light .... Actually, this brings up an interesting point. I'm not sure what thread it was, but recently there was one that had a 45 minute video. Some of that video also ties into this. The presenter in that video seemed to state that raising your lights could aid in a more even canopy of light. He was stating that the difference between high and low is more equal to each other with raising your lights higher (provided you have enough lighting to begin with). I found that interesting.

I like raising & lowering for minimal adjustments, but raising them high the last 2 weeks no matter what

 

[MIMedGrower]

I like raising & lowering for minimal adjustments, but raising them high the last 2 weeks no matter what

You find this necessary even without all the ir like an hps? I thought it wouldnt matter too much.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

You find this necessary even without all the ir like an hps? I thought it wouldnt matter too much.

If I'm not mistaken, he's got IR in his lights ... I believe he said his are Rspec, which would have a lot of deep red and far red.

 

[maximusluminous]

You find this necessary even without all the ir like an hps? I thought it wouldnt matter too much.

LED's will fry your plants faster than an HPS ever did for me at least, I mean way way too close with HPS will cook / burn your plants really bad but LED's do it differently, looks like a massive PH problem, leaves doing shit that you have never seen em do, in veg I have to have my BS chinese 3x3 LED 3.5' above em & it still wants to hurt em for about 10 days & at just 480 watts, I have no dimmer for that light, in flower it needs to be 2.5' above the plants to not stress the plants out.

 

[MIMedGrower]

If I'm not mistaken, he's got IR in his lights ... I believe he said his are Rspec, which would have a lot of deep red and far red.

Its no where near as much as an hid bulb puts out.

And its kind of falsified. The color is correct but the heat is different. Reminds me of solid atate guitar amps vs. vacuum tube amps. Something feels “deeper” with tube amps. Its the hot burning gasses.

 

[maximusluminous]

If I'm not mistaken, he's got IR in his lights ... I believe he said his are Rspec, which would have a lot of deep red and far red.

No far red in the HLG's just photo red (660nm), 16 reds per 288 diodes, the chinese light has some far reds tho

 

[MIMedGrower]

Well I sure learned a lot about led tech in this light cycle thread. ;-)

 

[maximusluminous]

Well I sure learned a lot about led tech in this light cycle thread. ;-)

you really do not want IR or UV leds in your board or strips, because they have much shorter life spans than 660nm red & white leds & the strip or board will only last as long as the UV &or IR LEDs last. so any IR or UV leds should be used on their own boards as supplemental lights to your regular LED's. (I personally would not use UV led's at all, not yet at least) just run a UV tube or 10..lol

 

[maximusluminous]

Well I sure learned a lot about led tech in this light cycle thread. ;-)

another thing I want to say.. I do love my LED's a lot, however I would be willing to try out CMH, I think the yield would drop per watt compared to LED but I think the quality would go thru the roof. I believe the highest quality bud comes from CMH & it has to do with the UV & IR light output. I could very well go to 50/50 CMH LED in the near future when Im ready to bite the bullet!

 

[weedtech]

you really do not want IR or UV leds in your board or strips, because they have much shorter life spans than 660nm red & white leds & the strip or board will only last as long as the UV &or IR LEDs last. so any IR or UV leds should be used on their own boards as supplemental lights to your regular LED's.

This is a point I have tried to make about most LED designs for a few years. Varied lifespan of some devices and the resultant spectral shift over time and component failure. You end up with the same problem as using old metal vapor bulbs.
As for bulb types, CMH is the best but you still need to replace the bulbs regularly.