Recently started using Coco! Using Aptus and Emerald Harvest. I keep getting lock out... Help

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ALIV

ALIV

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Hi everyone, MMP patient and Caregiver here. New to this site. figured I'de give it a shot. So, I'm in a slight dilemma. I recently stopped using Pro-mix soil and moved onto the Coco coir. Im currently using the Canna-Coco . I also switched my base nutrients from Heavy 16 to Emerald Goddess. Everything was going DECENT in veg until transplant. I made a full strength early veg feed, 5.8 PH 700 ppm. I gave the gals two gallons of feed in 15 gallon pot until drip. I come back next day and I start noticing signs of fading yellow, Thought it was my HPS bulbs being too close to the canopy, no real signs of heat stress but moved them up some. yellowing progressed as well as other deficiencies which told me it was a lock out. I flushed, 5.8 PH came out, my ppm was 500. Im just worried on why this is happening. If any input could be given it would be much appreciated! I will post below my room specs and nutrients

Co2 ppm: 600
RH: 60-70%
RT: Stable 78 Degrees F
(Veg Nutrient's given in order Ph'd to 5.8)
APTUS FASILITOR
EG GROW,MICRO,BLOOM
EG EMERALD GODDESS
APTUS STARTBOOST
EG HONEY CHOME
APTUS MASSBOOST
APTUS ECO-ZEN
 
Enforcer

Enforcer

2,008
263
You have made a classic coco mistake. Coco is not soil or peat based (like pro-mix). So it requires a different approach to feeding. I think a 15gal pot is a bit big for this style, but we can make it work. You’re going to want to feed daily to runoff. And it’s going to take a lot of nutrient solution to get runoff from a 15 gal pot. You may need to go to twice a day, depending on how dry the coco gets later in flower. Ideally in coco you want smaller pots and auto fed multiple times a day. The lockout comes from nutrient salts dried on the coco fibers. When you water again, some of those salts are added to the solution, increasing the total ppm. This problem compounds over time if the coco is allowed to dry out after each feeding. That is why the coco should never dry out.
 
Seraphine

Seraphine

1,192
263
You have made a classic coco mistake. Coco is not soil or peat based (like pro-mix). So it requires a different approach to feeding. I think a 15gal pot is a bit big for this style, but we can make it work. You’re going to want to feed daily to runoff. And it’s going to take a lot of nutrient solution to get runoff from a 15 gal pot. You may need to go to twice a day, depending on how dry the coco gets later in flower. Ideally in coco you want smaller pots and auto fed multiple times a day. The lockout comes from nutrient salts dried on the coco fibers. When you water again, some of those salts are added to the solution, increasing the total ppm. This problem compounds over time if the coco is allowed to dry out after each feeding. That is why the coco should never dry out.

this.

I grow in 1 gallon fabric pots and find if I miss a day I have to feed twice the amount to get runoff. also, vary your pH as some nutrients are only available in coco if ph is 6.o or above.
 
Bema

Bema

72
33
Take about an hour or so and listen to Dr. MJ Coco's talks on the Growcast podcast. Not only is it fascinating but it's one of the few podcasts where I don't feel like I'm listening to two stoned people on the phone. Its a genuinely informative.

I'm a soil guy through and through and now considering coco. The advice given above matches that of what I hear from Dr Coco.

Good luck
 
cemchris

cemchris

Supporter
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263
Co2 ppm: 600
RH: 60-70%
RT: Stable 78 Degrees F
(Veg Nutrient's given in order Ph'd to 5.8)
APTUS FASILITOR
EG GROW,MICRO,BLOOM
EG EMERALD GODDESS
APTUS STARTBOOST
EG HONEY CHOME
APTUS MASSBOOST
APTUS ECO-ZEN


Not to mention with that many inputs you would need to breakdown the ppm of what you are feeding on your dose to see if you are locking anything out. That's a lot of bottles and work so I'm gonna leave that to you.

Watering cycle is usually about 80% of the problem people moving to coco deal with like @Enforcer stated. Spot on advice. Once that get's sorted the problems, if any, are usually easy to fix.
 
ALIV

ALIV

26
3
You have made a classic coco mistake. Coco is not soil or peat based (like pro-mix). So it requires a different approach to feeding. I think a 15gal pot is a bit big for this style, but we can make it work. You’re going to want to feed daily to runoff. And it’s going to take a lot of nutrient solution to get runoff from a 15 gal pot. You may need to go to twice a day, depending on how dry the coco gets later in flower. Ideally in coco you want smaller pots and auto fed multiple times a day. The lockout comes from nutrient salts dried on the coco fibers. When you water again, some of those salts are added to the solution, increasing the total ppm. This problem compounds over time if the coco is allowed to dry out after each feeding. That is why the coco should never dry out.
Thanks for the input! I flushed with two gallons of water a couple days back now, they are still pretty wet, should I continue feeding water until runoff? Maybe just use the Aptus additives, I am now in second day of flower.
 
ALIV

ALIV

26
3
Take about an hour or so and listen to Dr. MJ Coco's talks on the Growcast podcast. Not only is it fascinating but it's one of the few podcasts where I don't feel like I'm listening to two stoned people on the phone. Its a genuinely informative.

I'm a soil guy through and through and now considering coco. The advice given above matches that of what I hear from Dr Coco.

Good luck
Sweet, I'm going to check that out. Thanks!
 
Enforcer

Enforcer

2,008
263
Thanks for the input! I flushed with two gallons of water a couple days back now, they are still pretty wet, should I continue feeding water until runoff? Maybe just use the Aptus additives, I am now in second day of flower.
Don’t worry about how wet the coco is. It’s only important that it doesn’t dry out. Remember, it’s not soil and has very little nutrition. So you will want to begin the daily feedings immediately. Even when at full saturation, coco still has enough oxygen for the roots. Overwatering is pretty hard to do in coco. But the plant needs those feedings to grow. Think of it like this, the plant eats what it wants and you’re just resetting the coco each time you feed. Whatever is not consumed is pushed out the bottom of the pot. Dr. Coco (cocoforcannabis.com) and I differ on a few aspects of growing but the way he explains fertigation in coco is right on.
 
B

BeardedGing

2
1
New guy here. However, I was doing almost the same setup. Emerald harvest 3 part, with added supplements. Emerald goddess, root wizard, honey chome and dark energy. I also started in 1 gallon and transplanted to 7 gallon smart pots. The canna coco was holding water and not drying out with my drip setup. And my plants locked up. Didn’t know if they would bounce back. I switched to a mix with perlite and my ph is 6.0 and EC at 1.4, growers choice ROI 680 LED, CO2. I started hand watering and BOOM. The girls took off. 72hrs between feedings. Temp 76-81 humidity 45-50. CO2 900-1500ppm. They seem super happy. I topped once at 2 weeks and they all have 5-6 stalks that all have a even canopy. Also doing 18/6 light. I think the medium helped a ton to get some air pockets and I was told to water every 30-40hrs and I was over watering. 72hrs seems to be the ticket for me. Hope this helps. I would think raising your CO2 levels and temp a little would help also. From what I have been told and read in the “bible” plants take in CO2 around 80 degrees the best. I could be wrong but it’s working great so far for me.
 
B

BeardedGing

2
1
New guy here. However, I was doing almost the same setup. Emerald harvest 3 part, with added supplements. Emerald goddess, root wizard, honey chome and dark energy. I also started in 1 gallon and transplanted to 7 gallon smart pots. The canna coco was holding water and not drying out with my drip setup. And my plants locked up. Didn’t know if they would bounce back. I switched to a mix with perlite and my ph is 6.0 and EC at 1.4, growers choice ROI 680 LED, CO2. I started hand watering and BOOM. The girls took off. 72hrs between feedings. Temp 76-81 humidity 45-50. CO2 900-1500ppm. They seem super happy. I topped once at 2 weeks and they all have 5-6 stalks that all have a even canopy. Also doing 18/6 light. I think the medium helped a ton to get some air pockets and I was told to water every 30-40hrs and I was over watering. 72hrs seems to be the ticket for me. Hope this helps. I would think raising your CO2 levels and temp a little would help also. From what I have been told and read in the “bible” plants take in CO2 around 80 degrees the best. I could be wrong but it’s working great so far for me.
To add I have good run off and when I go to water again the bottom 2/3 inches of the pot seems moist still. My plants are still in veg and I. Kept my gravity drip system installed and plan to run it again once the plants get bigger. I’m sure I will have to start watering more frequently as they grow. Buddy is doing similar setup and he’s watering every 30hrs. But is using straight canna coco.
 
Deadstill

Deadstill

I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.
Supporter
2,161
263
I'm a faithful Emerald Harvest supporter and user. I've been using it for a few years now. I don't mess with the 3 part stuff, so I cannot say much about that, other than I've heard of similar problems with the 3 part version, before. One thing you have to use that I didn't hear mention of, with Emerald Harvest nutes, is CAL MAG. Especially in hydro/coco. I usually use Cal Mag at least 1 time a month *at least*. And follow what these guys said.

Also, I've found Emerald Goddess works best as a foliar spray, not so much as a direct additive to your roots. It has a LOT of fertilizer salts to it, will raise your PPM by 100 with just a few drops it seems. EG is really strong tea I usually only go 1ml/gal in my hydroponics reservoir with that stuff. Use an emulsifier and mix EG about 4ml/gal with water, spray your leaves. After lights go out.

As for your 3 part stuff, perhaps give the 2 part Cali Pro a shot next time, it's much better, imho.
 
BigCube

BigCube

2,676
263
You can also flush with water and then feed after. You dont have to use nutrient water to get your runoff. You can just use plain water till you get your runoff then after it drains off hit it up with nutrient water.

Just to save some nutes. Ideally though a much smaller pot would be better. Indoor I've never gone bigger than 5 galon. A 5 galon can easily reach the 8ft ceiling.
 
Enforcer

Enforcer

2,008
263
New guy here. However, I was doing almost the same setup. Emerald harvest 3 part, with added supplements. Emerald goddess, root wizard, honey chome and dark energy. I also started in 1 gallon and transplanted to 7 gallon smart pots. The canna coco was holding water and not drying out with my drip setup. And my plants locked up. Didn’t know if they would bounce back. I switched to a mix with perlite and my ph is 6.0 and EC at 1.4, growers choice ROI 680 LED, CO2. I started hand watering and BOOM. The girls took off. 72hrs between feedings. Temp 76-81 humidity 45-50. CO2 900-1500ppm. They seem super happy. I topped once at 2 weeks and they all have 5-6 stalks that all have a even canopy. Also doing 18/6 light. I think the medium helped a ton to get some air pockets and I was told to water every 30-40hrs and I was over watering. 72hrs seems to be the ticket for me. Hope this helps. I would think raising your CO2 levels and temp a little would help also. From what I have been told and read in the “bible” plants take in CO2 around 80 degrees the best. I could be wrong but it’s working great so far for me.

You’re new so I thought I would give you a heads up. You can get away with longer durations between feedings when the plants are small. It is not ideal though. You will definitely need to feed more as the plants get bigger. If you continue with feeding every 3 days going into flower, about week 3-4 you’ll start getting tip burn and not know where it’s coming from. The repercussions of not feeding coco everyday and keeping it moist are cumulative and will get worst over time.
 
Enforcer

Enforcer

2,008
263
You can also flush with water and then feed after. You dont have to use nutrient water to get your runoff. You can just use plain water till you get your runoff then after it drains off hit it up with nutrient water.

Just to save some nutes. Ideally though a much smaller pot would be better. Indoor I've never gone bigger than 5 galon. A 5 galon can easily reach the 8ft ceiling.

You can do that. However, the rapidly changing salinity around the roots could lead to osmotic stress in the plant and may cost you a few days of grow time. Not the end of the world but something to be aware of.
 
JASONBROTHER

JASONBROTHER

206
43
I'm a faithful Emerald Harvest supporter and user. I've been using it for a few years now. I don't mess with the 3 part stuff, so I cannot say much about that, other than I've heard of similar problems with the 3 part version, before. One thing you have to use that I didn't hear mention of, with Emerald Harvest nutes, is CAL MAG. Especially in hydro/coco. I usually use Cal Mag at least 1 time a month *at least*. And follow what these guys said.

Also, I've found Emerald Goddess works best as a foliar spray, not so much as a direct additive to your roots. It has a LOT of fertilizer salts to it, will raise your PPM by 100 with just a few drops it seems. EG is really strong tea I usually only go 1ml/gal in my hydroponics reservoir with that stuff. Use an emulsifier and mix EG about 4ml/gal with water, spray your leaves. After lights go out.

As for your 3 part stuff, perhaps give the 2 part Cali Pro a shot next time, it's much better, imho.
”I usually use Cal Mag at least 1 time a month *at least*.“ Bro ,that was too crazy ,
In the early stage of plants, if I don't add calmag mix with nuturients, my plants will have problems. I read your message two weeks ago. As a result, my plants have problems in the early stage of plants. All kinds of reactions of magnesium and calcium deficiency have come. I really want to cry
 
ic0dex

ic0dex

40
8
You have made a classic coco mistake. Coco is not soil or peat based (like pro-mix). So it requires a different approach to feeding. I think a 15gal pot is a bit big for this style, but we can make it work. You’re going to want to feed daily to runoff. And it’s going to take a lot of nutrient solution to get runoff from a 15 gal pot. You may need to go to twice a day, depending on how dry the coco gets later in flower. Ideally in coco you want smaller pots and auto fed multiple times a day. The lockout comes from nutrient salts dried on the coco fibers. When you water again, some of those salts are added to the solution, increasing the total ppm. This problem compounds over time if the coco is allowed to dry out after each feeding. That is why the coco should never dry out.

Interesting, I did not know this. I’m using 3 Gal pots and I’m currently in mid week 6 of flowering. I water every other day once I notice the top is drying out.

I also have a few pots that they’re always wet and don’t t dry out like the other pots. Is that also a nutrient lock out or is that a sign that’s something is wrong with my roots?
 
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