Science on loss of vigor over generations of clones?

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los0420

los0420

I have cloned from clone from clone for at least a year doing aeroponics never kept a mother ,then after that I made a mother from a clone and I am stiil seeing some of the best product from 20 generation old clones
 
SinCity

SinCity

Part of having 'growing skills' is knowing about the life cycle of the plants you're trying to grow. Like what happens when you clone across many generations. Assuming you know everything important about plant biology makes you a shitty horticulturist, regardless of what you're producing.


On a more positive note, I've got a meeting scheduled with a doctoral candidate in botany this week. Asking about genetic degradation is at the top of my agenda, and I'll post whatever I learn in this thread.


OH THANK GOD! SO FEW PEOPLE GROWING THIS PLANT HAVE EVER BOTHERED TO GET BASIC HORTICULTURAL INFORMATION--CUZ YOU KNOW, IT'S A PLANT. A FLOWERING PLANT, and there might be some folks who have some experience with flowering plants. Cuttings degrade not because of genetic degradation due to cloning, because you know, we're not cloning genes--we're taking cuttings. FROM AN ANNUAL, NOT A PERENNIAL. You know, cuz it's a flowering plant...it has a life cycle. A short one. I know. I'm a bitch, but this shit is ridiculous. I need to get off this site.
 
Sergio Barba

Sergio Barba

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Try BudBud.us app and you will be able to track every single plant and every single bud for centuries and definitely prove whether or not there is difference in clones over the years.
 
hyzerflip

hyzerflip

I've been taught, and it seems like the science on general horticulture suggests, that each generation of clones--meaning clones of clones, not rounds of clones taken sequentially off of the same mother--reduces the vigor of the stock.

There is no peer reviewed science to support this assertion. Clones are just that - Clones.
 
hyzerflip

hyzerflip

I had a nice cut of Querkle that purpled for me everytime, even in heat it would purple up if left for 9 weeks. I moved on to some other stuff and gave a cut to one guy and two nice mothers to another. The one guy tell me it dont purple up any more, Says it always stays green even in the cold. I figured he mixed cuts up. Then the other guy tells me one mother turns purp and the other stays green, but they are the same. I check out the first guys bud and its the querkle i gave him but green. Crazy that one mutated like that. Im going to try and get a cut of each one and see whats up.

Why would you assume this was genetic rather than environmental?
 
P

PharmHand

There is no peer reviewed science to support this assertion. Clones are just that - Clones.
So all the best growers are just wasting their time and money cleaning up all the old clone-onlys via tissue culture? Did you grow that blue dream 20 years ago? It may be that it’s viral and possibly some varieties are more resistant to disease; much in the same way certain varieties are more resistant to pm, insects etc. Broaden your horizons my friend the knowledge is out there :)
 
hyzerflip

hyzerflip

So all the best growers are just wasting their time and money cleaning up all the old clone-onlys via tissue culture?

Tissue culture does not 'fix' genetic changes. If genetic change were the culprit, nothing could fix it. Tissue culture is used in horticulture to eliminate pests and pathogens in nursery stock and to propagate large (1000+) populations.
 
xavier7995

xavier7995

Gotta agree with hyzer here. If that first gen of clones from a mother are genetically identical, as they are with clones by definition, then each of those clones should put out genetically identical clones to the mother. Plants can absolutely get pathogens and whatnot that leave it in a weak state, some cannot be cured, tissue culture is really cool for being able to fix that sort of issue. TC or traditional clone though, you are getting the same result, an identical plant to the donor since it is being grown from a part of that donor.
 
D

Dr.Green420

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so according to yall, the final say would be it's all a myth?

I appreciate everyone's that's taken their Time over the to contribute to this!;yall are great!
 
P

PharmHand

It may be that it’s viral and possibly some varieties are more resistant to disease; much in the same way certain varieties are more resistant to pm, insects
Said nothing about it being genetic or that tc could somehow repair genes??? It’s also a cutting not a clone. Tc can renew lost vigor
 
hyzerflip

hyzerflip

Said nothing about it being genetic or that tc could somehow repair genes??? It’s also a cutting not a clone. Tc can renew lost vigor

TC eliminates the pests and pathogens that can cause a loss of vigor. Plant pathogens are very common, and the clones we trade undoubtedly carry many.
 
P

PharmHand

TC eliminates the pests and pathogens that can cause a loss of vigor. Plant pathogens are very common, and the clones we trade undoubtedly carry many.
Exactly. The name of this thread is “the science on loss of vigor over generations of clones”. I offered a hypothesis on the likely cause of “loss of vigor” and a potential solution -TC. Not sure where the confusion here is? Did y’all read my posts? Plant viruses and pathogens reducing vigor is most not a “myth” @DrGreen420. Feels like I’m talking to a brick wall here, I’m out
 
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