Second Grow, First Indoor. The Start Of Something Wonderful.

[MelonFarmer]

Hi guys and girls. After a succesful outdoor grow, my first grow, and winter moving in I thought I'd check out hydro. RDWC more specifically.

Being totally fresh to the hydro scene I bought kits to make life easier. It included a Secret Jardin HS100 tent( 100cm by 100cm, 4 inch inline fan/filter kit, two 130watt CLF lights (6400k and 2700k), a Lushpro 45 watt red/blue LED panel, Advanced Nutrients Ph perfect 3 part nutes, timer ratchets ducting etc. The DWC kit came with a black 25-30 liter res with 4 net pots, hydroton, a submerged pump with 4 drippers, black pipes and a 6(ish)cm airstone.

I've been buying toys to add to the setup including: PH and PPM meters, both HM-Digital, with storage solution and PH up and down, Liquid Orca, a 30.5cm airstone and three thermometer/hygrometers.

I failed at ordering seeds online and haven't tried again yet. My outdoor grow was bagseeds and I really like the smoke so bagseeds it is until I can work out online ordering.

I know nothing but I read a lot and I want to learn more.

I'm going to post pics and leave notes as I go, more for my own record than anything, but I invite anyone and everyone to tell me what I'm doing wrong!

Thanks for taking the time :)

Peace

 

[MissBotany]

What was your issue ordering online? Just curious...

 

[scubascrog]

Make sure you buy a chiller!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1/13 hp chillers are about 250-280 bucks and absolutely required for RDWC :) especially with summer here. make sure you keep your organics out of dwc , proper aeration and change your res weekly and you will be goooooood

 

[DGP]

Hi guys and girls. After a succesful outdoor grow, my first grow, and winter moving in I thought I'd check out hydro. RDWC more specifically.

Being totally fresh to the hydro scene I bought kits to make life easier. It included a Secret Jardin HS100 tent( 100cm by 100cm, 4 inch inline fan/filter kit, two 130watt CLF lights (6400k and 2700k), a Lushpro 45 watt red/blue LED panel, Advanced Nutrients Ph perfect 3 part nutes, timer ratchets ducting etc. The DWC kit came with a black 25-30 liter res with 4 net pots, hydroton, a submerged pump with 4 drippers, black pipes and a 6(ish)cm airstone.

I've been buying toys to add to the setup including: PH and PPM meters, both HM-Digital, with storage solution and PH up and down, Liquid Orca, a 30.5cm airstone and three thermometer/hygrometers.

I failed at ordering seeds online and haven't tried again yet. My outdoor grow was bagseeds and I really like the smoke so bagseeds it is until I can work out online ordering.

I know nothing but I read a lot and I want to learn more.

I'm going to post pics and leave notes as I go, more for my own record than anything, but I invite anyone and everyone to tell me what I'm doing wrong!

Thanks for taking the time :)

Peace

You must be in the Southern hemisphere if Winter is coming on.

You say your setup came with drippers so it must be some kind of top feed system. Are you able to post up some pictures. Is you grow location somewhere cool or is it in your residence? Reason I ask is temperatures. Sometimes even in a fairly cool area often water temperatures can be a problem. I even struggle with this issue in the transitional seasons so I use a water chiller. Typically if your water temps get above 70F or so you'll have root issues that are often caused by anaerobic bacteria that flourishes in warm water that has low oxygen saturation. Keeping the water around 66-68F is even more ideal in my experience. Cool water has enough oxygenation to also give the plants the oxygen they need.

I currently us a top fed DIY system in my veg tent because the clones or seedlings start there and don't have root structures that are emerging out of the net pots yet so the drippers give them a good start. For flower I use undercurrent.

It is frustrating but many companies and individuals that sell so-called "hydro" tent setups fail to tell people about the water temperature issue and so folks get well into their grow with plants getting big just to realize they end up sick and dying later on due to water temp and quality. They don't like to talk about this issue because a chiller makes their economical tent setup look less attractive. Some growers use reservoir additives to successfully combat bacteria and somehow get by with higher temps but it is a battle for sure and some growers (and I have done this at times as well) will put frozen water bottles or milk jugs in the reservoir every morning and evening.

Dee

 

[scubascrog]

and for 4 stones and an aerated reservoir you need a commercial eco air 5 minimum.

 

[MelonFarmer]

What was your issue ordering online? Just curious...

They wouldn't accept my card so I tried to do a money gram and they money was never recieved. The teller who filled out the form assumed I had misspelled the address and took it upon themselves to correct it for me. I assume that's why it got lost, now I'm to paranoid to follow it up.
I think I'll send cash in the mail next time.

Make sure you buy a chiller!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1/13 hp chillers are about 250-280 bucks and absolutely required for RDWC :) especially with summer here. make sure you keep your organics out of dwc , proper aeration and change your res weekly and you will be goooooood

I haven't bought a chiller yet as winters can be brutal here. The water has been sitting between 18-21C, under 70f but I am getting some brown build up in the drippers, on top of the rockwool and on my roots. It started in the first week in plain tap water and I have changed the res twice since then and added 1/4 strength nutes, reccommended Orca amount and PH down. I snipped brown roots off when I changed the res but its come back on the new growth. I've read about using h2o2 but I hoped the bennies would take over and clear it up.

The drippers are for top feeding, I was hoping to be able to turn them off by now but I keep having to snip roots so they arejt all in the water. It may be best to start fresh :s

I'm also having problems with PH. Where I live water is quite soft at only 24ppm (not sure if I'm using the meter properly, it has several features I don't understand but I'm reading 0.5 scale reading) and ph is around 8. I ph it down to about 5.5 but it always climbs back up to at least 7 sometimes 8 by the next day.

One seedling has 3 leaves at each node and is growing slowly, I'll dump it soon but my friend has a soft spot for runts and wants to adopt it from me lol. The other 3 all have brown spots that look like cal/mag issues to my untrained eye, possibly caused by ph?

I will post photos when I have some time, hopefully tonight.

and for 4 stones and an aerated reservoir you need a commercial eco air 5 minimum.

Can you elaborate please? I don't quite understand.
I think you are saying I need more airstones, I only plan on taking 1 or 2 plants all the way, do you think I'll be ok with one stone?

 

[MelonFarmer]

Sounds like you have it locked down. I'm doing an indoor bag seed grow, in week 6 flower. Having height issues. 6 ladies, 6 different strains in a 3x4ft. nook. Tried to keep them growing even for lighting issues. But in the end of stretch the sativa's jumped 12in. above the indies. So the indies are at a disadvantage. Doing supplemental lighting to help them out a little. I planted six in hope for two ladies. The grow gods blessed me with six. It's a jungle of buds in my room. Doing four clones next grow taking the mystery out of the outcome.

Haha! Welcome to the jungle baby! Sounds like the best problem to have.

 

[MelonFarmer]

Yeah right. Peace

Sorry bro, I didn't mean to laugh.

 

[DGP]

They wouldn't accept my card so I tried to do a money gram and they money was never recieved. The teller who filled out the form assumed I had misspelled the address and took it upon themselves to correct it for me. I assume that's why it got lost, now I'm to paranoid to follow it up.
I think I'll send cash in the mail next time.



I haven't bought a chiller yet as winters can be brutal here. The water has been sitting between 18-21C, under 70f but I am getting some brown build up in the drippers, on top of the rockwool and on my roots. It started in the first week in plain tap water and I have changed the res twice since then and added 1/4 strength nutes, reccommended Orca amount and PH down. I snipped brown roots off when I changed the res but its come back on the new growth. I've read about using h2o2 but I hoped the bennies would take over and clear it up.

The drippers are for top feeding, I was hoping to be able to turn them off by now but I keep having to snip roots so they arejt all in the water. It may be best to start fresh :s

I'm also having problems with PH. Where I live water is quite soft at only 24ppm (not sure if I'm using the meter properly, it has several features I don't understand but I'm reading 0.5 scale reading) and ph is around 8. I ph it down to about 5.5 but it always climbs back up to at least 7 sometimes 8 by the next day.

One seedling has 3 leaves at each node and is growing slowly, I'll dump it soon but my friend has a soft spot for runts and wants to adopt it from me lol. The other 3 all have brown spots that look like cal/mag issues to my untrained eye, possibly caused by ph?

I will post photos when I have some time, hopefully tonight.



Can you elaborate please? I don't quite understand.
I think you are saying I need more airstones, I only plan on taking 1 or 2 plants all the way, do you think I'll be ok with one stone?

I think he was saying you need a bigger more capable air pump. They aren't real expensive on Amazon, a commercial 950 GPH pump is something like 35-40 bucks if I remember correctly.

Remember the colder the water is (to a certain point) the more oxygen it can hold and the more effective the pump is. You can also add some diluted 33% food grade H202 (hydrogen Peroxide) to the water and it will help kill of the bacteria and adds lots of oxygen. However, if your using live reservoir conditioners (good bacteria) you can't use H202 because it will kill off the good bacteria as well. Personally I have had better luck with H202 than all the reservoir concoctions but that is just me, others have had very good luck with them. I think the water conditions people have (if they use tap water) vary widely and may impact the way these reservoir conditioners work. I have water that comes out of the tap at 15 ppm so it for all intents and purposes is equivalent to RO water.

Dee

 

[MelonFarmer]

I think he was saying you need a bigger more capable air pump. They aren't real expensive on Amazon, a commercial 950 GPH pump is something like 35-40 bucks if I remember correctly.

Remember the colder the water is (to a certain point) the more oxygen it can hold and the more effective the pump is. You can also add some diluted 33% food grade H202 (hydrogen Peroxide) to the water and it will help kill of the bacteria and adds lots of oxygen. However, if your using live reservoir conditioners (good bacteria) you can't use H202 because it will kill off the good bacteria as well. Personally I have had better luck with H202 than all the reservoir concoctions but that is just me, others have had very good luck with them. I think the water conditions people have (if they use tap water) vary widely and may impact the way these reservoir conditioners work. I have water that comes out of the tap at 15 ppm so it for all intents and purposes is equivalent to RO water.

Dee

I think I understand re the pump, I have all my net pots sitting in one res, not individual buckets so its only 1 30.5cm stone for the whole res which will be flowering 1 or 2 plants if all goes to plan (as if it will all go to plan). Is it the stone or the pump you think is falling short? Or both?

It sounds like the h2o2 might make life a little easier for my first run. Keep it simple stupid haha. Is there any downside to the h2o2 healthwise? It strikes me as something I wouldn't want to smoke.

If using beneficials, should I have added it from the start before I started to add nutes to prevent the nasties from taking hold?

 

[MelonFarmer]

Pictures.

 

[DGP]

The H202 dissipates by breaking down into water and releasing the extra oxygen molecule. It is just water with an extra O molecule. Just be careful because it will burn your skin so handle with gloves and safety glasses. However, it is not harmful to the grow in any way. I use food grade 33% because it is pure. The 3% fro the drug store has preservatives/stabilizers you dont want in the grow.


Dee

 

[DGP]

Yeah, I would still go bigger on the pump and have 2 large air stones in the reservoir. Also, it looks like you left the wrappers on the rockwool. Those should have been removed so roots can poke through the sides and water can get in. It looks like your over-saturating the rockwool. This should be corrected. I use drip rings that go around the perimeter of the rockwool cube so they aren't drowning and it encourages the roots to expand to get more water. I am afraid your seedlings might stem rot. Did you leave the wrappers on the rockwool like I think I am seeing?

Oh yeah, and the H202 effects only last about 3 days but don't use more than you need. Crack the reservoir open and take a big sniff. Smell OK or like a healthy aquarium? that is how I do my day to day check on water quality as weird as that sounds. Your nose will smell some problems pretty early and there is always a little algae in the water over time that if it doesn't get out of control is somewhat normal and there will always be some bacteria but use you nose to detect it. If I smell something in the reservoir and I think it is going sideways I just drain and refill and redo the nutes. I change my reservoir about every week to week and a half and there are some guys who don't change it ever during the flower cycle. My water quality suffers if I try no water changes and I worry about salt build up. Once I did it and the water I drained at the end of the cycle looked like, well pretty disgusting like sludgey bilge water.

Dee

 

[MelonFarmer]

Yeah, I would still go bigger on the pump and have 2 large air stones in the reservoir. Also, it looks like you left the wrappers on the rockwool. Those should have been removed so roots can poke through the sides and water can get in. It looks like your over-saturating the rockwool. This should be corrected. I use drip rings that go around the perimeter of the rockwool cube so they aren't drowning and it encourages the roots to expand to get more water. I am afraid your seedlings might stem rot. Did you leave the wrappers on the rockwool like I think I am seeing?

Oh yeah, and the H202 effects only last about 3 days but don't use more than you need. Crack the reservoir open and take a big sniff. Smell OK or like a healthy aquarium? that is how I do my day to day check on water quality as weird as that sounds. Your nose will smell some problems pretty early and there is always a little algae in the water over time that if it doesn't get out of control is somewhat normal and there will always be some bacteria but use you nose to detect it. If I smell something in the reservoir and I think it is going sideways I just drain and refill and redo the nutes. I change my reservoir about every week to week and a half and there are some guys who don't change it ever during the flower cycle. My water quality suffers if I try no water changes and I worry about salt build up. Once I did it and the water I drained at the end of the cycle looked like, well pretty disgusting like sludgey bilge water.

Dee

Thanks for all the help! I've removed the wrappers from the rockwool now (doh), hopefully I didn't do much damage to the roots, and I buried the rockwool a little deeper so they weren't getting light on the surface in an attempt to stop/slow the slime. I removed the drippers completely anyway seeing as all plants have roots in the water, that should solve the saturation issue. I only removed the drippers in the first place because they were getting blocked, I didn't realise over saturation was even a problem, so much to learn :)

I replace my res water every two weeks. The smell is close to neutral, smells cleaner than most fish tanks, it was the brown slime I could SEE that was worrying me. What about the slime on the roots? I read brown slimey roots is ALWAYS bad and could be Pythium.

I'm afraid my lights are under powered, they work great for seedlings, I already used the tent to sprout vegetables and everyone was happy but I hear mh/hps is the golden standard according to most people when it comes to serious veg znd flower. At the moment I only have 175watts between the CLF and the LED and they don't hit all plants evenly. Have you guys got any reccomendations on lights for a 100cmX100cm space? I have been doing a lot of reading but there is so much information out there and so many conflicting opinions.

Now that the drippers are off it will be interesting to see what happens with my PH. I suspect that the issues I was having is because I didn't rinse and condition my rockwool and hydroton properly and having water flowing all the time was messing with the alkalinity.

Thanks for reading and replying :)

Peace

 

[MelonFarmer]

Wow;. I just jumped from soil to coco. Bought some meter too. Is this my future:? , yeah of coarse it is. Peace and all good fortune in your grow.

Thanks bro! You too.

If this is your future try to learn from my mistakes, I'm sure I'll make them all haha.
I'm worried about my pen after reading Incognetos thread where his pen was misreading the PH leading him to dump acid in his water. Let me know how you go with yours.

 

[MelonFarmer]

@DGP

I'm going to keep using the Orca for now seeing as I already bought it, but if I smell anything funky or the slime gets worse I'll start using the H2O2 like you said.

When you drain your res do you rinse it with fresh water or clean it? Mine always has a few dribbles left in there when I drain it with the tap on the side.

 

[DGP]

My system is a undercurrent and once the plants get to a certain size it is impossible to move them and clean the system completely. I do flush it with clean water to wash away as much debris as possible then I refill with clean nutrient solution.

I always get some slime on the airlines, bucket lids, hoses etc. I just try to clean things as best as I can until I can really scrub between cycles.

Be careful though if your water source like tap water comes in quite cold and can shock the plants. I have a top off reservoir that is above all my buckets so I fill that and then open a valve to let it go into the system. Before I open that valve I make sure the water is around 62 or so. Once a couple of flushes are done I go to refill.

Top drippers work great and I have noticed my plants do way better when they a starting out and grow faster in a top feed than any other way. Once they get roots out the side I don't see the advantage of top feed but in the early days of growth it gives them a real boost.

Keep going with the lights you have and then upgrade later or whenever you feel ready. I would go with one of the quantum board systems when you get ready to upgrade they are down to a price of $1 per watt or less if you DIY. Either COBs or Quantums would rock it for you.

Dee

 

[MelonFarmer]

My oscillating fan broke the other day and I have replaced it with a 170m3/h intake fan which is slightly rustling the babies, so I think it will do the job of both for now. The only thing is I'm drawing air faster than I'm exhausting it and the tent is kind of ballooning, is that bad?

Roots are growing and looking better, still a little discoloured but much better than last week.

I'm going to drain and refill the res on monday, what ppm do you guys feed at in this early stage? I've been doing 1/4 strength which comes out at about 120ppm. 95 when you take out my normal tap water reading of 25. This is 0.5 scale reading, not sure if that's what most people use...better keep reading threads haha. My ppm seems low compared to other people I'm following but the biggest plant is only 15-20cm tall...no signs of nute burn so I'm going to take it up a bit more.

Still adjusting PH everyday from 8 down to 5.5-6. I hope this isn't stressing them out, a good flush on monday might help a little.

Back soon.

Peace.

 

[Monster762]

if Your ph is going to 8 every day n you got to drop it the plant has to be stressed.

Idk I’ve never run a hydro setup but ph fluctuations like that in soil would have all new growth twisted and lockouts steadily.

 

[Monster762]

I’m not sure the differences but there is a nutrient availability chart that will show what gets locked out by where your ph goes. I copied the soil one there has to be a hydro one or it wouldn’t be listed as the soil one.