Seedlings Repeatedly Dying -please Help-

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diamsup

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alright while im no expert on growing im also no idiot either. i have done hours upon hours of research on this subject and come up empty handed. i apologize for the length of post just really want to give as much information as possible. hopefully the internets infinite wisdom can lend me a hand on this one

ive been having some bad luck recently with my flood drain system. started about a month ago when i was forced to pull 10 gsc due to a case of pythium caused by poor aeration in my reservoir. they had been growing fine up til this point and this is my NOT my problem, just wanted to give some background information. anyway i pulled the plants and washed everything with diluted bleach solution. pump, flood table, drain fittings, vinyl tubing, air stones and grow room walls. made sure it was all rinsed well and went over it all with 30% hydrogen peroxide sprayed from a bottle to make sure no pythium remained.

i should mention that while i used diluted bleach (1 part bleach to 10 water) on all my equipment i used 100% bleach on the grow room floor. i believe this is ultimately what is causing my problem

SO i acquired more seeds, hooked up all my cleaned equipment and started germination process again. about 15 seeds this time skunk #1. no problems germination 100% success rate. planted germed seeds in 1.5" rockwool cubes taproot down. 18/6 under a mars hydro 1200. within 2 or 3 days the first seeds broke surface and i suppose this is where the trouble begins. seedlings seem to have strong growth for the first 3 days to a week after which they started showing problems. starting with slight drooping/curling of the leaves downwards. as curling progresses the undersides of leaves start showing blotches of purple. as well as purpling of the stem which progresses upward into the veins of the leaves. a week or two after breaking surface seedlings are shriveled fallen over and dead.

its also worth mentioning that when i introduce the germed seeds in rockwool into the flood and drain tray there seems to be some sort of white granules building up on the top and sides of the rockwool cubes. very small white specks but lots of them. and when i tried flushing the cubes with water these granules remain a day later when the cube is dried out. my concern is that these are salt crystals and they are causing a nutrient lockup.

my concern at this point is that the 100% bleach solution i used on the groom floor is causing this problem. i research a little and learned that undiluted bleach leaves a toxic residue when it evaporates (sodium hypochlorite). assumed this what the white granules on my rockwool are comprised of and i start pulling my equipment apart again. cleaned everything again using just water, replaced my vinyl tubing with new stuff just in case, and wiped down the walls and floor.

SO i start a new batch of seedlings. afghani #1s 12 seeds. germ rate 100% again alluding to stong seeds/genetics. same process phed rockwool cubes into the flood and tray system. wouldnt you know it same problem occurs about a week in this time. slight curling followed by purple undersides of leaves and purple stems. 2 weeks after breaking ground seedling are shriveled and fallen over fucking dead again! the purpling and shriveling seemed to have a slower onset this time around. is it possible i have residual sodium somewhere in my system/room?

ive probably burnt hundreds of dollars on seeds alone not to mention electricity costs running intake and exhaust lights pump airstones humidifier. ive resolved not to start any more seeds til i can get a definitive answer on this issue.

ill include my specific information below for the sake of thoroughness. thanks everyone in advance


Hydro Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? **SEEDS
2. How old are your plants? **1 TO 2 WEEKS
3. How tall are your plants? **1 OR 2 INCHES
4. What type of hydro system are you using? ** FLOOD AND DRAIN
5. What brand/type of nutrients are you using? ** MEGA MASS (localy sourced hydroponic nutrient)
6. What is the Ph of your nutrient solution? **FAIRLY STEADY AROUND 5.7-6.0
7. What is the PPM/EC of your tap water? **.3
8. What is the PPM/EC of your nutrient solution? ** MY PPM METER IS FUCKED BUT IM USING 1/5 STRENGTH NUTE SOLUTION. ESTIMATED EC OF <1
9. What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? ** SITTING AROUND 15*c
10. Does your PPM/EC show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? ** I DID NOTICE A PPM RISE WHICH LED ME TO BELIEVE MY METER WAS FUCKED
11. Does your pH show a rise or fall when you do your daily check? **NO
12. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? **NO
13. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") ** MARS HYDRO 1200
14. How close are your lights to the plants? **2 FEET
15. What size is your grow space in square feet? **2.5x5x7'
16. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? **25c DAYTIME 19c NIGHTTIME
17. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? NO
18. How much experience do you have growing? 2 OUTDOORS 1 INDOORS CONTAINER CULTURE
 
Wee Zard

Wee Zard

Check your PH meter too.
The purpling sure sounds like a low PH lockout.

I had to quit using rock wool years ago.
It stays too wet. That water goes stagnant inside the wool and that suffocated my 'lings.

Then, my germination went to hell.
More accurately, germination was fine, but they all "dampened off". shortly after sprouting.
Dicked with it for months, then threw in the towel and threw out the wool.

Went back to coco because I liked the high yield and needed large amounts of bud to make oil.
Once my needs were met, I went back to FFOF for the simplicity, (PH buffering, less ferts, etc). Have had no problems since.

Aloha,
Wee 'zard
 
wow,,, complex stuff you got man... I put a seed in some dirt. 14 wks later I cut 1.7 lb in bud. I let the sun shine on it and put some tap water on her. I dont spend $ on plants. The plants make money , So this bud is good enough for me and its free. i thought that was the point to growing bud. But you're not alone, I see guys on here spending all kinds of money on growing so I dont get it. They buy nutes, poisons, lites, and all this stuff.
So in a competition sense to see who makes the most money I just cant figure most of the guys out on this site. I love turning my nose up at offers for pounds. Close my shit up and walk rite out the dispense door and they know and I know the best bud is leaving the facility.
S20170224_0004.jpg
 
A.) you need the correct genetics. "indica.PorchMonkey CV" remake of GG.
1. shovel some dirt in a dixie cup, got worm in the dirt even better.
2. Germ in window in FREE dixie cup from trash.
3. More dirt for big plant. put it on porch. If your in Colo like me bring plant in below 32' F.

Pay Lino 1 million for the Grow Lesson and tutorial. I like the no money grow, gorilla grows, that the name of the game to me, IMO
porchMonkey.jpg
 
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diamsup

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Check your PH meter too.
The purpling sure sounds like a low PH lockout.

I had to quit using rock wool years ago.
It stays too wet. That water goes stagnant inside the wool and that suffocated my 'lings.

Then, my germination went to hell.
More accurately, germination was fine, but they all "dampened off". shortly after sprouting.
Dicked with it for months, then threw in the towel and threw out the wool.

Went back to coco because I liked the high yield and needed large amounts of bud to make oil.
Once my needs were met, I went back to FFOF for the simplicity, (PH buffering, less ferts, etc). Have had no problems since.

Aloha,
Wee 'zard
thanks for the reply weezard. so your reccomendation is to go back to container culture and soil then? i cant see my plants issue being damping off. they break wool and spring up so damn quick. also any of the cubes that the taproot shows through it looks white and strong for the first few days. then they start to brown but only after the leaves and stem have started to curl up and turn purple.
id really like to figure this hydro setup out. i will probably start some outdoors in soil this year as well but for indoors hydro seems like a better option. thinking i may clean everything again and pop some bagseed as a tester. at least then i wont be wasting any more quality genetics. what do you think W?
*edit* also i have ph calibrating solution. my pen works fine and i have kept a good eye on res ph levels. not much variance. fairly certain this is not a ph problem
 
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diamsup

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wow,,, complex stuff you got man... I put a seed in some dirt. 14 wks later I cut 1.7 lb in bud. I let the sun shine on it and put some tap water on her. I dont spend $ on plants. The plants make money , So this bud is good enough for me and its free. i thought that was the point to growing bud. But you're not alone, I see guys on here spending all kinds of money on growing so I dont get it. They buy nutes, poisons, lites, and all this stuff.
So in a competition sense to see who makes the most money I just cant figure most of the guys out on this site. I love turning my nose up at offers for pounds. Close my shit up and walk rite out the dispense door and they know and I know the best bud is leaving the facility.
View attachment 684050
hah yes well thats what i get for trying to better my growing experience. im really not interested in spending more for additives or CO2 any of the bells and whistles involved in some hydro setups. i have had success in soil and one guerilla grow that worked out fine with minimal effort. i feel like it is less than ideal for an indoor setup however. i am trying to keep things as simple as possible. not sure how my GSC survived for a month and half and these skunks and afghanis straight up curled over and died. and yeah i have been using quality genetics, crop king skunk and afghani. actually the strain with the most questionable genetics (bcbd GSC) lived the longest.
 
Wee Zard

Wee Zard

Sounds like a plan.

I used tomato seeds and sweet pepper seeds when I started growing in '67 because good weed seed was too rare to risk on a learning curve.

Then used them again in '06 when I was ramping up some DIY LEDs. as proof of concept.
I don't even risk bag seeds, because I'm too che, um, frugal. :)

And I fully agree with Lino.
Less is more, and the simpler, the better.

Aloha,
Weeze
 
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diamsup

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Sounds like a plan.

I used tomato seeds and sweet pepper seeds when I started growing in '67 because good weed seed was too rare to risk on a learning curve.

Then used them again in '06 when I was ramping up some DIY LEDs. as proof of concept.
I don't even risk bag seeds, because I'm too che, um, frugal. :)

And I fully agree with Lino.
Less is more, and the simpler, the better.

Aloha,
Weeze
well thankfully i have a lot of this bagseed. think they were from a hermie crop, i got a ton in a batch of shake i purchased. i guess ill clean my room again and pop a couple. i know if i can figure out whats causing this problem i can turn this all around and grow some good dope! pretty sure its the sodium from the bleach somehow getting into my system (evaporation?) and causing potassium and other nutrients to be blocked. if anyone has information on sodium hypochlorite that pertains drop me a line. lol im gonna go clean my system out for the 3rd time.
 
hermit186

hermit186

Sprouting seeds can be easy or hard depending on the age of the seeds. GA3 works for old seeds but you have to watch the plants and use light almost to close to plant to keep the stretch caused by it, to a minimum. I do it for the first 2 weeks after I start feeding them. I sprout 2 ways I put seed in a pot of coco after soaking over night.
I ph the water I use to soak in at 6. Then I spray the top above the seed with a sprayer every morning and if looks dry at night. I start with half a pot full and as it gets taller I fill pot. I do not feed till first leaves are full round and starting to develop. When I feed first time @ 1/5 around 210 ppm but no higher than 300. I feed again in my veg tray in two days and then start my 1 a day watering for 5 days and I watch them like a hawk if ya got a dude you will see it in the first 14 days. On day 10 I up the nutrients to 1/2 strength on day 14 I am at 75% and stay there tell the ladies tell me they need full strength.
#2 Old way 2 plates and paper towel soak in between a paper towel (my woman changed it when I wrecked one of her pots had to buy 2 new ones) the lid was glass and has one whole in it and sits over the plate like it was designed. Big deal? you don't have to lift it to see if they sprout. Another thing be careful all paper towels are not equal you need the mid priced so you dodge the bleach (acids) in the cheep ones and the stuff they add to the high dollar ones to make more absorbent and stronger. Let them go till you have about an 1" white root sticking out, then I put in pot same half full and keep in low light till the first leaves pop up as they grow I fill the pot.
The rest is the same I veg in ebb and Flow and flower in Drip to drain.
With seeds I don't transplant from sprout to 12" pot Every transplant cost you 4 to 8 days while the plant growers used to your new pot. With Regular seeds I mark the pot and north stays pointing north. Is something I have been working on.
Returing to GA3 if you use, use at 1/2 there dose and only soak seeds for 12 hrs. Don't store mixed use it or pitch it. It has helped me sprout 10 year old seeds they were well kept but without it 5 of 50 sprout and 2 make it. With Ga3 23 of 50 and 15 make it.
This will cause your plant to stretch and I told another post to never side light below first leaf you are the exception reduce the overhead light and bring close to the top (don't burn it) bring in side lighting for 2 weeks and it will not stretch out nearly as much. I use as a last resort.
The tempature where I sprout is from 70 to 78 and humidity is 45 to 60 %
If I start with new good seeds I am sprouting 95% I grow a good bit of regular seeds and I axe 1/4 and those be the under achievers. About week 3 or 4 . For a long time I have always had 50% female plants or more the top 4 become my mothers and finish what is left.
I wash my stuff with the same 10;1 solution being careful to not get bleach directly on the seeds. I use the bleach and air dry my stuff twice. Washing the floor with that strength is a bit heavy and weed is very sasaptuable to off gases and if your floor is concrete or tile that has ever been waxed. You could be gasing them. I think that is very slim but is a chance. Rock wool has never worked for sprouting seeds for me might be me.
One last thing I use distilled water for everything sprouting I have RO water but distilled works better for me.
 
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diamsup

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thanks hermit. never used GA3 before.. are you recommending this product? gibberellic acid. is that used to start seeds? i have been getting good success rates germing any way. usually put them in a shot glass and then pour into a paper towel after they soaked for a while. has been working well for me. no reason to mess around with it.
and yeah i have been considering RO water just using tap right now, the ec is pretty low and i have grown with it before no problems.
 
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diamsup

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If you are feeding them from the get go then thats your problem. When starting from seed give them straight water until the two little round leaves die off, then feed them at 1/4 strength to start.
hey dr, i am growing in rockwool cubes in a flood and drain tray. i have heard that feeding seedlings a dilute nutrient solution from seed is recommended in hydro. although i have had results with just tap water.
 
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diamsup

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shit even when i pulled this latest batch of afghani seedlings. looking at their roots all of them were pretty much white even tho the plant on top of the rockwool had collapsed. i guess i can rule out pythium as the cause.
 
hermit186

hermit186

Actually I would say yes in the right situation. I have used it several times myself and 3 others are trying to recover real Acapulco Gold. It was destroyed by paraquate in the years we sprayed Mexico. For very old seeds it's effective and makes the sprout to keep ration much better. I have friends in the three areas of Mexico where it came from but with the climate change (can't blame that on the Dutch)and very few no where it came from and was not even near Acapulco.
I tried Ga3 on several grows had trouble with stretching. Can make a twigee out of a plant. It also makes the main stems to brittle and if bent they brake unlike normal plants you just prop or brace it up or even ducktape it and it keeps growing strange looking but the plant is not really effected. GA3 will cause the stalks to be so brittle they fracture Laterally and the plant doesn't repair it and it dies.
I read a post and then try I give you ideas as to how to make it better. I have tried most of the hormones and the chemistry that will effect how plants grow. I have grown some very strange looking plants over the years. I learn a lot and we have recovered Gold seeds. At this time we can't say we have but, we are very close.
In most cases in my opinion Tri and several others including GA3 have there places but should be used in experiments and by someone who no's more than Me. In the case of Gold is our only shot there are no seeds around and if there were they would date from middle 70's to late 80's so they are very old. Myself and a few others are trying to find a small pocket of them in the wild some of the older guys there say it's out there.

I agree with DrMc seeds should not be fed until they are established on there own nutrients from the seeds.
Early PH is important and Clean is second. Make sure that the nutrients you do feed is on the order of what size plant you have. Remember that all the snake-oil except one, has some of the hormones that normal plants never see. New Plants should never see them at all. Of the plants I give to rabbit (I call them also ran) with all the breeding and mixing of the genetics. I would expect about 4 to 6 out of 20 to be also ran. After you have 10 or 15 years of notes you will no. Some of the leef problem you see early can be fixed with chemistry but I don't if it's not a good grower is rabbit food. I have found you have 5 of the best looking plants and one dude you look at root ball and everthing is ok it was just smaller and has problems with nutrients that the others like. That is a also ran.
Mostly everyone gets them. The more abstract the seed the higher number of also rans.
At the present rate that the breeders mostly Dutch seem to think that freeks are the way to go.
Well the Dutch have references you should check out is something the young pay very little attention to
They are great plant molesters and they destroyed Tulip's with there breeding once it was the most valuable bulb in the world. They Ended that. History will repeat it's self and already has there address.
I found after I stopped using there seeds. Most of my problems were the simple kind after that. Some of your problems were the same. I once posted here about this and because mostly all the people are dependent upon there breeding now instead of sticking to what Ma nature spent millions of years making. They in 25 or 30 years now we have fem & Auto and they are freeks. Change where you get your seeds. Use someone you have not bought from before and stop feeding your sprouts till they are at least 7 days old. I recommend you try some of the vendors here if you have a surprise you can e-mail them and the man who made that seed. Will advise you. I have e-mail 3 times and got good answers quickly. The only answers I have gotten from others is list all your methods and all your perimeters so we can determine what you did wrong. I asked for the problems I might see but guess they can't read or was talking to a computer. The closing line was there end . We don't guarantee them good luck.
You paid at least 10 bucks a seed and the average plant makes from 1000 to 2000 seeds. you do the math.
I have not grown with a vendor who will not answer questions and tell me what to expect. What short coming's his or her seeds have. Now I buy American, Canadians and the down under crowed has some good stuff only seeds I buy that If you can get are Jamaican I get them from there. Are there Dutch seeds in there I am sure but in time they will go the way of the most beautiful Tulip. The last time a checked 2K times 10 bucks is 20K per plant. So they are here to help the growers make plants that could replace them? I remember a time when if you dropped seeds while rolling they were growing in 2 or 3 days now you need candles and incense and prayer.
If my answers are to long or to negitave for you sorry but we are destroying a natural thing in the pretext of making it better.
 
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