Silicone and hydro!

[nightmarecreature]

I came across an article about silicone that I thought was very interesting . It's probably going to change the way I use it.

"Hydroponic feeds do not contain Silicon in any viable quantity, if at all. The reason for this is that for Silicon to stay soluble, it requires a high pH – greater than 7. Therefore it cannot be included in a normal, hydroponic two-part feed as it would react with the other elements present and this would be very likely to lead to a nutrient deficiency."

"For Silicon to be used as a viable additive for your plants, it needs to be kept separate from the basic feed. You could even think of it as your third part to go alongside your usual two-part feed."

Most silicon sold is potassium silicate, which is not readily available to plants. Silicic acid is what our plants uptake. When potassium silicate is dissolved in a solution, it forms K ions and silicic acid separately.

Hydro requires a PH of about 5.5-5.8 wouldn't this make our bottles of silica useless because our PH would be below 7, making the potassium silicate insoluble?

If that's the case, than maybe using it as a foliar spray with a PH higher than 7, would work as the article suggests?

 

[Seamaiden]

I've used Si as a foliar, not sure about the pH range, but I know that there's a huge variability in effective ranges for foliaring various products, etc. I do feel that my foliars were effective in getting more Si into plant tissues, but I can't really quantify that any better than the stems felt a bit stiffer, more rigid, and the leaves took on better turgor.

 

[nightmarecreature]

I know foliar spraying works. I have experienced weird lock out here and there. I'm starting to think that potassium silicate might not be compatable with hydro. According to the author it's not because it need a PH of 7 or more. I'm going to only use it as a stand alone and see if my plants are happier. Testing is the only way to find out. I only use coco so it's possible that seaweed and silica might be adding to much K.

 

[gliders420]

This is a really good thread. I'd like to see what more info people share about this.

@Seamaiden do you foliar with silica alone of do you mix any goodies In too?

 

[nightmarecreature]

I don't know about her but I'm going to use silica as a foliar only and leave it out of my nute mix. I should able to tell in a month. It will also act as a barrier for pm. Pm hates high PH, it likes a PH around 5.5.

 

[Natural]

Can you link it? I'd like more to read about the PH.
I wonder what Aptus is using for their Silicic acid. Isn't willow bark extract silicic acid? Have you ever heard of using absorbic acid/silicic acid combo for a foliar?

 

[nightmarecreature]

I'll see if I can find it.

Aptus, is just that, silicic acid. Plants can uptake it immediately.

I think you're thinking of
acetylsalicylic acid, which is aspirin.

No.

 

[Natural]

No..it is often found in aspirin though. Check the wiki page..half way down..picture on the right (white willow bark) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylic_acid
I was reading an article by phytochemist and was suggesting that we use 4:1 ratio of absorbic acid (vitamin C) to silicic acid powder (white willow bark extract) meaning use 1 tbsp and a 1/4 tbsp per gallon..no mention of PH. Although, there was mention of heating the solution to dissolve the silicic acid..no mention of fall-out..but were not dealing with the Potassium Silicate..but rather the raw organic form.

 

[nightmarecreature]

That was a good read thanks. I knew that willow bark or salicyclic acid improved disease resistance but I did not know it increased yield or how much to use. I'll try 100ppm of aspirin as a foliar.

Now for the Vitamin C aka asorbic acid.

 

[Natural]

I know foliar spraying works. I have experienced weird lock out here and there. I'm starting to think that potassium silicate might not be compatable with hydro. According to the author it's not because it need a PH of 7 or more. I'm going to only use it as a stand alone and see if my plants are happier. Testing is the only way to find out. I only use coco so it's possible that seaweed and silica might be adding to much K.

Sorry got confused..I was talking about salicyclic acid..which is natuarl PGR.
To get back on track...too much K makes perfect sense..especially when all we're trying to get is the silicic acid. Thanks for pointing that out. I cleaned up my posts a bit. I can list those links if ya wish..just rather stay on track.

 

[nightmarecreature]

Sorry got confused..I was talking about salicyclic acid..which is natuarl PGR.
To get back on track...too much K makes perfect sense..especially when all we're trying to get is the silicic acid. Thanks for pointing that out. I cleaned up my posts a bit. I can list those links if ya wish..just rather stay on track.

I think too much K is a coco coir only problem. Coco loves to hold K.

 

[monkeymun]

If this were actually the case, that silica is insoluble below a pH of 7, then wouldn't we expect to see rampant silica deficiencies in hydro?

 

[Natural]

Right and natural soil can have tons of silica already. Found a great article..pay close attention to the part titled "Transport" really interesting..seems it's still a bit of a mystery really. May have a lot to do with biosilicas found in this article.

 

[Natural]

If this were actually the case, that silica is insoluble below a pH of 7, then wouldn't we expect to see rampant silica deficiencies in hydro?

check my second link in the post above, some very interesting reading. The short of it seems to suggest that PH and temps lend in part to the length and quality (size) of the polymer chains...rather than actual solubility.

SILICA CHEMISTRY IN AQUEOUS AND NON-AQUEOUS ENVIRONMENTS

 

[monkeymun]

check my second link in the post above, some very interesting reading. The short of it seems to suggest that PH and temps lend in part to the length and quality (size) of the polymer chains...rather than actual solubility.
SILICA CHEMISTRY IN AQUEOUS AND NON-AQUEOUS ENVIRONMENTS

It appears I can't read it without a subscription.

 

[Natural]

@ nightmarecreature
I'm going ahead with my orders of Absorbic acid and White Willow Bark Extract. I'll let you know how I fare. Going to be using with a surfactant and only going to use it 3-4 times the whole cycle. The bulk powders are really cheap. Plan on only raising my PH to around 6.2 for this rather than the usual 5.8 slight acidic for foliar.
Thanks for the caveats about Potassium Silicate..lots to learn there, using as a foliar!

 

[Natural]

It appears I can't read it without a subscription.

Oh my..how strange it links just fine on my end...Use Google Scholar and try looking for this
Silicification: The Processes by Which Organisms Capture and Mineralize Silica

 

[monkeymun]

Excellent, that did the trick, at least for the first page. I wonder if root associations with fungi and bacteria makes the question of pH somwhat obsolete? As in these organisms may be able to change the pH in the rhizosphere itself, or perhaps scavenge the silica and make it avalable to the roots of the plants when it may otherwise not be. Worth looking into.

 

[nightmarecreature]

@ nightmarecreature
I'm going ahead with my orders of Absorbic acid and White Willow Bark Extract. I'll let you know how I fare. Going to be using with a surfactant and only going to use it 3-4 times the whole cycle. The bulk powders are really cheap. Plan on only raising my PH to around 6.2 for this rather than the usual 5.8 slight acidic for foliar.
Thanks for the caveats about Potassium Silicate..lots to learn there, using as a foliar!

I believe an acid has to be used as such. If you change the PH and raise it, it's no longer an acid. I think 5.5 might be worth a try.

 

[Natural]

Excellent, that did the trick, at least for the first page. I wonder if root associations with fungi and bacteria makes the question of pH somwhat obsolete? As in these organisms may be able to change the pH in the rhizosphere itself, or perhaps scavenge the silica and make it avalable to the roots of the plants when it may otherwise not be. Worth looking into.

Let me know if this works..it's a pdf file...you have to read this..

I believe an acid has to be used as such. If you change the PH and raise it, it's no longer an acid. I think 5.5 might be worth a try.

interesting I can't wait to find out it's natural PH