Soil layering (purple cow/FFHP) or mixing 50/50

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ImpulsiveGrower

ImpulsiveGrower

Title says it all. I’m new to indoor growing and started my seeds in happy frog. My local hydro store recommended purple cow organic indicanja to transplant into. So now I have this idea to try layering the soil. Thinking of a 50/50 or maybe a 60/40 layering so my young plants can grow into the purple cow. Or should I just mix them 50/50? Or only grow in the purple cow? I plan on not using any nutes until the flower cycle. Any advice would be appreciated. Below are the specs for both...
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

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noooo!!!! that is what i use. it will burn the roots of the plant! heres what i had to do, put the purple cow in the bottom 1/3 of pot and a potting soil in the rest. the roots will reach down when they are ready and get what they need.

i just spilled mine, and the mixing of the hot purple cow with the potting soil REALLY hurt her!! it did not stop with time either, just kept doing it! i had to repot and shake off as much of the dirt from the roots as i could and then repot and it finally started growing new leaves that were ok. the older leaves are still all splotchy! but new growth is ok now.

on the other hand, she is my bushiest plant and where i FIMed her she grew back!

if you look at the leaves, all but the new ones are splotchy. i was advised that it would grow into it, it did NOT! not till i changed the soil, did it start growing green leaves and really growing well.

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ImpulsiveGrower

ImpulsiveGrower

noooo!!!! that is what i use. it will burn the roots of the plant! heres what i had to do, put the purple cow in the bottom 1/3 of pot and a potting soil in the rest. the roots will reach down when they are ready and get what they need.

i just spilled mine, and the mixing of the hot purple cow with the potting soil REALLY hurt her!! it did not stop with time either, just kept doing it! i had to repot and shake off as much of the dirt from the roots as i could and then repot and it finally started growing new leaves that were ok. the older leaves are still all splotchy! but new growth is ok now.
So you’re saying no to what exactly?
noooo!!!! that is what i use. it will burn the roots of the plant! heres what i had to do, put the purple cow in the bottom 1/3 of pot and a potting soil in the rest. the roots will reach down when they are ready and get what they need.

i just spilled mine, and the mixing of the hot purple cow with the potting soil REALLY hurt her!! it did not stop with time either, just kept doing it! i had to repot and shake off as much of the dirt from the roots as i could and then repot and it finally started growing new leaves that were ok. the older leaves are still all splotchy! but new growth is ok now.
So you’re saying no to mixing the happy frog with the purple cow? So the layering of soil is a pretty good idea then? That way they can grow into the hotter soil? I’m gonna be growing in 5 gallon pots. Figured I could put in the purple cow at the bottom half and happy frog on the top. I’ll transplant from my 64oz 5 in pots into the half and half layered soil.
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

Supporter
layering implies putting the one then the other then the one then the other...

so no.

and mixing, no

putting one layer on the bottom - i did 1/3, as that is what is all over the net on growing in water only or super soil, dont know about 50%. just know what i did, and why i did it is some canadian research showing that the 1/3 measure is what the plants (depending upon genetics, but all within the range tested) use during their life. when testing the soil along the lifespan of plants raised in soil with all the same constraints, the plants typically use (at whatever rate they need), most of the provided nutes by its demise when the 1/3 amount was used. they were tested in liter pots - several different sizes. all worked best with the 1/3. purple cow was not among the tested brands, but has much the same composition as those that were tested.

so, yes to putting some in the bottom, then normal soil in the rest. i used bushdoctor, but it was very specific that any good potting soil will do.

the diagram showed the roots going to the level of the water only soil, taking the nutes, then going a bit deeper and taking those nutes... till they are gone and the plant has died. the 1/3 measure was plenty, and not high enough in the pot to restrict the normal root growth (im afraid 50% would limit the growth, because they will not grow into the hot soil, they suck the good shit out first, then go down a bit more.

if you use 100% purple cow, i would be concerned it would burn her. if only a tiny bit got jumbled into my (over 12" plant) and made it crappy with splotchy leaves and slacking growth, then i would think 100% would not be a good thing. and this effect lasted till i got her out of the soil with that little bit mixed in! it was in a 1 gal, with about 2 cups of the hot soil and the rest was potting soil.

this might not be how it works for you. i dont know anything but what i personally did and the results. well, i am a voracious reader and have resources to read scholarly articles from college libraries!
 
ImpulsiveGrower

ImpulsiveGrower

layering implies putting the one then the other then the one then the other...

so no.

and mixing, no

putting one layer on the bottom - i did 1/3, as that is what is all over the net on growing in water only or super soil, dont know about 50%. just know what i did, and why i did it is some canadian research showing that the 1/3 measure is what the plants (depending upon genetics, but all within the range tested) use during their life. when testing the soil along the lifespan of plants raised in soil with all the same constraints, the plants typically use (at whatever rate they need), most of the provided nutes by its demise when the 1/3 amount was used. they were tested in liter pots - several different sizes. all worked best with the 1/3. purple cow was not among the tested brands, but has much the same composition as those that were tested.

so, yes to putting some in the bottom, then normal soil in the rest. i used bushdoctor, but it was very specific that any good potting soil will do.

the diagram showed the roots going to the level of the water only soil, taking the nutes, then going a bit deeper and taking those nutes... till they are gone and the plant has died. the 1/3 measure was plenty, and not high enough in the pot to restrict the normal root growth (im afraid 50% would limit the growth, because they will not grow into the hot soil, they suck the good shit out first, then go down a bit more.

if you use 100% purple cow, i would be concerned it would burn her. if only a tiny bit got jumbled into my (over 12" plant) and made it crappy with splotchy leaves and slacking growth, then i would think 100% would not be a good thing. and this effect lasted till i got her out of the soil with that little bit mixed in! it was in a 1 gal, with about 2 cups of the hot soil and the rest was potting soil.

this might not be how it works for you. i dont know anything but what i personally did and the results. well, i am a voracious reader and have resources to read scholarly articles from college libraries!
Thanks for the input it seems I’m getting some mixed opinions on this matter. I will prolly try the layering as in the bottom layer and a top layer. I’ll play with the ratios a bit and see how it goes (40% purple cow on bottom). I may try one in 100% purple cow when she’s ready to be transplanted.
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

Supporter
here is the problem putting more hot soil in the bottom. the roots wont grow into the hot soil. they stop. they eat what they need then and only then grow deeper. so, if you do 1/3, they have more room to grow big enough to want to eat the hot soil nutes and grow deeper. if you use 50% they only have the other 50% to get big enough to eat the nutes and go deeper - roots need to grow downward to grow green upwards. if they only grow a little down they only grow a little up. the other thing is no matter what you put, they use only what they need, so you have lots of the pot the roots wont use ever due to it being hot and they only need so much hot nute filled stuff. so wasted resources and taking away grow room are the two good reasons to stick to the 1/3.

i cant share the articles because they are college library stuff, sorry. but google some canada or washington state stuff on it. they are doing some actual peer reviewed research on the growing.
 
lex0415

lex0415

Purple Cow by itself is not too hot for plants. It's when you amend it with extra fertilizers making a 'super soil' is when people fill the bottom third of a pot. Plain soil by itself whether it's Ocean Forest, Purple Cow, whatever it is, will not burn a plant when fertigated with plain water that is 12" tall.
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

Supporter
i found this pic of sort of what i am talking about...

see the dirt at the bottom, that is hot, and roots will not grow in the hot stuff till they eat the nutes out first.
so, picture 1/2 filled with it...

a 5 gal pot is about 10 inches tall, so you put 50% and you are down to a 5 inch plant depth, the roots wont go into the other 5 inches till they take up the nutes in that part of the pot.

if you do 1/3 you get 66% left, so you have 6.6 inches of grow space for your lady. so if you up pot from a 1 gal, your plants roots are already more than the 5 inches you would allow for if using 1/2.



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lvstealth

lvstealth

Supporter
Purple Cow by itself is not too hot for plants. It's when you amend it with extra fertilizers making a 'super soil' is when people fill the bottom third of a pot. Plain soil by itself whether it's Ocean Forest, Purple Cow, whatever it is, will not burn a plant when fertigated with plain water that is 12" tall.
ok... but i did nothing but open the bag, i did no amending, and yes, it burned the crap out of her and continued to burn her till the transplant and again, that was with only a bit in there. it was well over the 12 inch mark too. it is not a normal soil, it is a compost compound and is considered a "supersoil" with no amending

"Purple Cow IndiCanja is a water-only super soil containing everything needed to take your plant from seedling to harvest"
 
mysticepipedon

mysticepipedon

I avoid layering soil, because water "hangs up" when there is an abrupt texture change in soil. That is, water will not move to the next layer until it saturates the one above it.

It may not happen if the soil texture is the same and the only difference is the added nutrients, but beware of things like a sudden change in the amount of perlite or other constituents.
 
lex0415

lex0415

They can market their product how they want, a real super soil is when you take a soil like Ocean Forest or Purple Cow and amend it with dry fertilizer. For example, Purple Cow has 1.1% N, that is not alot compared to Ocean Forest. It's a slow release nutrient too, so for it to burn a plant beyond 2 weeks old is rare. It has compost and spagnum peat moss in it, and some organic fertilizer, just like Ocean Forest. It does have more compost than most, which is why he is going to start his plants in Happy Frog then transition into Purple Cow.

I don't know what happened to your plants, but all types of issues could cause something that looks like nutrient toxicity.

The nutrient content on the label of Purple Cow clearly shows it is perfectly fine for established plants.

Also, roots will grow regardless of the amount of nutrients in the soil. Look at DWC, the roots have all the nutrients they need in the solution but they continue to grow and fill the entire bucket. The point of putting hot soil in the bottom third of a pot is so by time the roots get to it the plant will be bigger. If he starts off in happy frog and the plants are established, then Purple Cow by itself should not burn the plants.

But either way he does it his plants would grow fine like I said earlier.
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

Supporter
try it... i did.

i made the spill, it made the burned leaves. or that was my hypothesis...

so, i started a new seed, got to the same stage, mixed the purple cow into the soil and repotted in the purple cow mixed (also had a second seed, i called the control plant which got the regular set up - which i still have), it caused the same result - bad enough i tossed it! so i made a hypothesis, tested for it, and got results that were convincing enough to me. so i wont be doing that again. i know what it looks like and how to recreate it.

so, i KNOW what happened to mine, i recreated it to KNOW what happens when you do it. that is just what i KNOW. and how i KNOW it.
 
lex0415

lex0415

try it... i did.

i made the spill, it made the burned leaves. or that was my hypothesis...

so, i started a new seed, got to the same stage, mixed the purple cow into the soil and repotted in the purple cow mixed (also had a second seed, i called the control plant which got the regular set up - which i still have), it caused the same result - bad enough i tossed it! so i made a hypothesis, tested for it, and got results that were convincing enough to me. so i wont be doing that again. i know what it looks like and how to recreate it.

so, i KNOW what happened to mine, i recreated it to KNOW what happens when you do it. that is just what i KNOW. and how i KNOW it.

What kind of light do you use?
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

Supporter
xs2000 and 2 xs1500

as i said, i did the experiment, all the constraints equal and consistent.

it happened, it happened again in a controlled experiment, and again here, on the forum, a different guy it happened to (he spilled his just like i did) and it happened to him too! the exact thing...
 
lex0415

lex0415

xs2000 and 2 xs1500

as i said, i did the experiment, all the constraints equal and consistent.

it happened, it happened again in a controlled experiment, and again here, on the forum, a different guy it happened to (he spilled his just like i did) and it happened to him too! the exact thing...

I believe you, I've only used 600w HPS but I heard using lower wattage LED's the plants could use different amounts of nutrients. I think it's easier to over fertilize using 150-240w LED compared to 600w plus LED or HID.
 
ImpulsiveGrower

ImpulsiveGrower

Thanx for the replies everyone. My local hydro store suggested the purple cow for an established plant. Apparently someone seemed to have issues with using it. I think I’m gonna go ahead and try the half and half with purple cow on the bottom and I’ll try one with strictly the purple cow and see how it goes.
 
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