Soil Recipe help

[StonedBlue]

I'm switching to organics, I recently went back to soil. I've got a bunch of dry nutes, all are Jacks. Is it possible to use these to make a water only soil. These are what I have.
Primary 6lb
* Cal nitrate 15-0-0 6 lb
**Hydoponic 5-12-26 4lb
Most 1lb
Postassium silicate 0-0-3 1lb
K2o2 potassium sulfates of potash 1lb
K2So2 potassium sulfate 1lb
Calcium nitrate 15 calcium 15 (Product used to supplement calcium and nitrate nitrogen with micronutrients)
**Hydro - (by percentage)
nitrogen 5,
phosphate 12
soluble potash 26
magnesium 6
sulfur 8
iron -. 03,
Magnanese. 05
molybdenum 01
zinc. 015
2nd question - would it be considered organic?

 

[crimsonecho]

No its not. First of all, these are chemicals and a plant grown with chemical fertilizers can not be considered organic.

Secondly, these are all plant available nutrients so you cannot mix them into your soil at the amounts which would get you thru a grow with only water. If you do, you’ll most definitely end up with fried plants.

Look into organics a bit more. Its all about small consistent feedings provided by the decaying microbes or their excrements. As organic material breaks down by microbes it provides a balanced diet (given that your mix is balanced).

It really doesn’t have to be hard. Just couple of simple amendments is enough. Wormcasting, a pinch of manure, maybe little bat guano, a little neem seed meal perhaps, aeration material and a little peat. Thats all it takes to grow great plants ime.

 

[StonedBlue]

I've heard that before re the food being a chemical and not organic. What I don't understand I guess is why a nutrient taken from a natural source isn't organic. If I get one from a ground up rock, why isn't it organic?
Not being difficult. I know there's a reason I just don't know. And I get the past about plant availability.

 

[crimsonecho]

Hydro nutes are chemical salts composed of bonded ions. When mixed with water they become free ions and they are immediately available to the plant. If you add the amount of fertilizer that would get you thru a grow at once it’ll not be taken up slowly. It will burn the root hairs and kill the plant.

Most of the fertilizers derived from natural inorganic sources are used in organic farming (ie. dusts of various rocks). Its an acceptable organic farming practice even tho the actual material is inorganic in the biological sense (does not contain carbon). They slowly break down in soil, providing nourishment to the plants. Or like DE they don’t break down but provide protection and water retention benefits.

Hydro nutes tho, most are the products of artifical processes. They are salts. They don’t work in the same manner. In the hydro environment the rhizosphere that deals with decomposition is none existent. So salts work by eliminating the need for any further decomposition. Its just different.

 

[Winter323]

There are products that are hybrid organic/ salt mixes like the GH Rose Fertilizer Bag or their Marine Cuisine which I used in a soil mix I got started with in 2005, although my first grow was using the BOG soil mix from overgrow.com back around 2000. I would agree with Crimson far as nutrients being readily available, but you could probably get away with mixing in enough for maybe a month and then go for some type of top dressing or maybe start with one like Bontanicaire Gorilla Grow. I just dont think it would be an easy as mixing in the same raitos for jacks as you would for a 3-2-1 mix or whatever as over time certain parts may get depleted faster and cause an imbalance, part of the problem with charting new territory. But at the end of the day if you are going to spend half a year growing something might as well be fire and something your proud of it, so may as well toss all the salts away or maybe just use them for veg until you get a good system down and dont need them but its almost the same cost to make up a nice organic soil mix than to lazily mix salts into your soil. Part of the problem with reusing salty soil for your organic base as you are never sure what exactly is in there and it might give you a problem for your first year, but as long as you are savy at spotting correcting deficiencies shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah the idea of organic is not to try to cheat and make a water only soil you can tell people is organic, still going to have some salty ass weed, especially if you are just using the jacks 3 part mix and nothing else. If you amended heavy with fruits would be better but still nothing you are really going to want to smoke. Just decide if you want to spend countless hours and energy in the next 6 months growing for yields/ speed or for flavor/true quality. Sure maybe with proper techniques the visible difference wont be very much but the taste is what is missing in most of todays weed, everyone is going corporate, hosing organic pesticidesef which is why you want to develope a strong program trying to grow the best as you can, as you dont want to waste 6 months growing something comparable to all the boof flooded at 50-100/oz.

 

[Winter323]

Its common for dispensaries in Colorado to try to claim their weed is organic when on the label it clearly is just a list of like 10 salts or whatever, and they try to say they are all those naturally sourced/ raw salts, which is fine for them and all that but you can definitely taste the difference. Even with a nice flush and cure it lacks character and part of the reason the weed game is dying out here is all the greedy growers who were sitting around growing their salty as double yielding weed are better just buying wholesale, and good quality is tough to come by, pretty much sells before it drops. For example homie who owns GreenDot used to grow the most fire tasting flower using the TGA mix amended with some earth juice or later the nectar of the gods line in promix, but now he is too big to really care about quality, and his grow is so hermi'd out all he can do is run it for hash and sure his strains may be some of the best after popping 100k seeds or whatever number they are at, but at the end of the day still hasnt been able to produce any smokable weed for a minute as no one is trying to smoke those crackling hermie pods, even if his sauce smells right still missing his old school flavor even though he can still claim he is 95% organic...which is where most of the weed game in the state is at.

 

[StonedBlue]

I have 0 concern with yeild. My plant limit is 18 which is more than enough. Since the 80s I've grown for potency. As long as I couldn't taste the salts and it was smooth on the throat I was happy. Now I'm in the middle of setting up my first real grow room. Rental houses I lived in before. So I'm redoing everything to do right.
Question - how do you get everything well mixed? Only thing that I've come up with is a cement style mixer. My something cheaper?

 

[Winter323]

I have 0 concern with yeild. My plant limit is 18 which is more than enough. Since the 80s I've grown for potency. As long as I couldn't taste the salts and it was smooth on the throat I was happy. Now I'm in the middle of setting up my first real grow room. Rental houses I lived in before. So I'm redoing everything to do right.
Question - how do you get everything well mixed? Only thing that I've come up with is a cement style mixer. My something cheaper?

Nice that is the correct attitude to have as there is only a small difference between 50-100/oz and 200-300+ oz and that is that is taste =)

I just mix my 30-100/ gallon pots with a small trenching shovel. Dont really need anything too crazy for that.

If you want to use a good living soil mix to get started check out @mountainorganics on instagram and check his website too where he lists the soil various soil recipes hes been toying with.

 

[Winter323]

I have 0 concern with yeild. My plant limit is 18 which is more than enough. Since the 80s I've grown for potency. As long as I couldn't taste the salts and it was smooth on the throat I was happy. Now I'm in the middle of setting up my first real grow room. Rental houses I lived in before. So I'm redoing everything to do right.
Question - how do you get everything well mixed? Only thing that I've come up with is a cement style mixer. My something cheaper?

If you are going to go with salts you def want to mix them in the hydration stage, as you dont want there to be salts just sitting in the soil.

 

[eirI]

No its not. First of all, these are chemicals and a plant grown with chemical fertilizers can not be considered organic.

Secondly, these are all plant available nutrients so you cannot mix them into your soil at the amounts which would get you thru a grow with only water. If you do, you’ll most definitely end up with fried plants.

Look into organics a bit more. Its all about small consistent feedings provided by the decaying microbes or their excrements. As organic material breaks down by microbes it provides a balanced diet (given that your mix is balanced).

It really doesn’t have to be hard. Just couple of simple amendments is enough. Wormcasting, a pinch of manure, maybe little bat guano, a little neem seed meal perhaps, aeration material and a little peat. Thats all it takes to grow great plants ime.

I just want to add my 2 cents and I have using alfalfa meal to my soil. Just don’tuse too much. It’s got everything

 

[eirI]

I just want to add my 2 cents and I have using alfalfa meal to my soil. Just don’tuse too much. It’s got everything

I just want to add my 2 cents and I have using alfalfa meal to my soil. Just don’tuse too much. It’s got everything

Chem nutes are chelated no digestion what so ever in your soil. Bypass the critters or microbes

 

[crimsonecho]

I just want to add my 2 cents and I have using alfalfa meal to my soil. Just don’tuse too much. It’s got everything

My point was that building a soil can be as complicated as you like it to be. Alfalfa, kelp, azomite, karanja, cotton seed meal, crab meal, blood meal, bone meal, spirulina, insect frass, stinging nettles, bokashi etc etc. Every organic and inorganic input will provide something useful. Some micros, some enzymes, some hormones, some form of microbial life, some substance which activates immune response in plants, something that deters pests etc.

But in the end high quality ewc, compost, manure and guano provides all that plant will need plus a very good microbial life. The rest is just about your budget and your tenacity imho. Better to start simple anyway.

 

[eirI]

My point was that building a soil can be as complicated as you like it to be. Alfalfa, kelp, azomite, karanja, cotton seed meal, crab meal, blood meal, bone meal, spirulina, insect frass, stinging nettles, bokashi etc etc. Every organic and inorganic input will provide something useful. Some micros, some enzymes, some hormones, some form of microbial life, some substance which activates immune response in plants, something that deters pests etc.

But in the end high quality ewc, compost, manure and guano provides all that plant will need plus a very good microbial life. The rest is just about your budget and your tenacity imho. Better to start simple anyway.

I totally agree you said best. Thank you my friend