Soil sog grower needs mentor to switch to hydro

[Northwest Skunk]

Hi guys,
I've been a soil sog grower for a lot of years. Before growing on my own I worked in a lot of commercial soil grows; setting them up, maintenance, etc..
I believe I have completely peaked at getting the highest yield and smoke quality from the strains I've grown in soil sogs. I have reached 2.4-3lbs/1000 watt consistently now for the past few years by growing 70 to 75 plants per 5'x5' grow area per 1000 watt light growing clones vegged 2 weeks and flowering strains of 8 to 10 weeks.

I want to move on to what I think can be the ultimate yielding system and share it with all of you as the build and learning curve goes on.
I will post pictures all along the way.

I have a dilemma though that some of you expert hydro growers I hope can help me with. I need an expert hydro grower or growers to be my mentor/mentors setting up and running my new hydro system.

My vision is to replicate my soil sog set up but to do it all hydro to see if there is 100% truth to the fact that hydro can and will out yield soil grown mj if done in the exact same system with the same strains and with clones from the same mothers.

I currently use Advanced Nutrients line up which over the years I've experimented a lot with changing doses and ppm ratios between the base line nutes.

I am really interested in finding out what the hydro growers here would recommend I use in my new hydro system as the best line of hydro nutes to use and which schedules work the best to produce the best mj product and yield.

I would like if possible not to change my room designs or bed/planting design.
I would like to still use my beds which I will waterproof for hydro use.

My biggest question is which hydro system do you think will work best with my set ups and which way will be the best to set up my beds for planting/feeding 70-75 plants/light? Should I use 6" rockwool cubes fit together in the beds? If so will I have to cover the whole bed with a non light penetrating covering to protect the roots from light, etc..

I've done a lot of reading on hydro but there are so many different styles. What do you guys suggest will work the best with my system.

If hydro does out yield soil then I hope doing this will prove that and I may see yields over 3lbs/light with the new system.

Here's some pics of my current system set ups for my soil sogs:

 

[iscrog4food]

Wow, nice steup you got there. If your going for GPW the only real improvements i could suggest would be to go verticle in order to eliminate the loss via refraction from the reflectors, or chang your medium as you suggested. You could use your exact same setup (assuming you have drains somewhere on those beds) just line the whole thing with pond liner and put it on a slant. THen fill them up with coco or perlite or hydroton or a mix. ALso i would reccomend laying down at least enough hydroton to cover your drains so the coco doesnt clog em up. Let me just say also that I do not yeild 2 gpw but im working on it! Goodluck!

 

[biggun4me]

Wow... You really want to fix something that ain't broke? Good luck.. Peace

 

[Thriv3]

sub'd i followed ur threads on another site and they were all amazing. I tried to copy ur design in a 4x4 bed but failed LOL!!! Good luck!!!

 

[Northwest Skunk]

Iscrogforfood

Wow, nice steup you got there. If your going for GPW the only real improvements i could suggest would be to go verticle in order to eliminate the loss via refraction from the reflectors, or chang your medium as you suggested. You could use your exact same setup (assuming you have drains somewhere on those beds) just line the whole thing with pond liner and put it on a slant. THen fill them up with coco or perlite or hydroton or a mix. ALso i would reccomend laying down at least enough hydroton to cover your drains so the coco doesnt clog em up. Let me just say also that I do not yeild 2 gpw but im working on it! Goodluck!

Thanks for the insight. Are the mediums you are suggesting re usable or would I be replacing it every show? Yes for sure I will be putting pond liner in, drain holes, and slanting the beds.

biggun4me

Wow... You really want to fix something that ain't broke? Good luck.. Peace

No I don't want to fix anything..I would like to improve yield if possible. I believe we have to always test and try to do the best that is possible. Trying my style in a hydro system is something I haven't done yet and I need to find out for myself if it will improve my current system. If not I will keep growing this same way but I have to try..it's been on my mind for a long time now.

 

[Northwest Skunk]

Thriv3

sub'd i followed ur threads on another site and they were all amazing. I tried to copy ur design in a 4x4 bed but failed LOL!!! Good luck!!!

Hey thanks a lot. I enjoy sharing my passion with other growers/smokers. If you ever want to try the system again feel free to ask any questions you want. I have to get 50 posts I believe to pm forum members but if you have any questions you want answered please post them on this thread.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Bro, I humbly submit that I could probably help you out, depending on which way you wanted to go.

Seeing as how you wanna keep your beds, I'd recommend just doing a simple E&F setup - you could do a DTW top feed if you wanted, but 75 different spaghetti tubes per light would be kind of a pain in the arse, ya know?

Any questions about E&F I can help with, but honestly, if you're consistently getting 2-3lbs/light in soil, I'd really question whether it's worth it to switch to E&F.

Just my $.02, but I'm subbed to see what you decide.

Is your soil setup right now automated at all, or do you handwater?

 

[antimatter]

I loled when you asked for improvement, best I can give you is to try out canna coco or 100% perlite or 60/40 hydroton/coco or 70/30 hydroton/coco I wouldn't mess with aero or recirculating anything in your case. I hate peat mixes though so I am biased.

 

[Northwest Skunk]

Bobby Smith

Bro, I humbly submit that I could probably help you out, depending on which way you wanted to go.

Seeing as how you wanna keep your beds, I'd recommend just doing a simple E&F setup - you could do a DTW top feed if you wanted, but 75 different spaghetti tubes per light would be kind of a pain in the arse, ya know?

Any questions about E&F I can help with, but honestly, if you're consistently getting 2-3lbs/light in soil, I'd really question whether it's worth it to switch to E&F.

Just my $.02, but I'm subbed to see what you decide.

Is your soil setup right now automated at all, or do you handwater?

I was also thinking of ebb & flow. What medium would you recommend? Would you recommend baskets in another medium, or rockwool, or sure to grow blocks, or other?

Is there a medium that is re usable? Perlite?

What about the res, say for a 9 light set up what size res would I need? For every 3 lights the bed size is 15'L x 5'W x 8"D.

Right now I hand water and my res is 400 liters/100 gallons and it waters all 9 lights very well.

Not sure if this would cut it though for an E & F system.

Also if I am flooding several times an hour how long does it take for all the res mix to be used up by the plants or do you end up throwing out some of the res mix after so many floods?

What size res chiller will I need to run for larger res sizes/systems?

I'm not sure if the hydro will yield better copying the same planting style in the sealed rooms but I really want to find out. I haven't seen anywhere on the net or grow mags etc. where a grower does this exact system with hydro yet so someones gotta try it.

 

[Northwest Skunk]

Antimatter

I loled when you asked for improvement, best I can give you is to try out canna coco or 100% perlite or 60/40 hydroton/coco or 70/30 hydroton/coco I wouldn't mess with aero or recirculating anything in your case. I hate peat mixes though so I am biased.

I am very happy with where I am don't get me wrong it has taken a long and interesting road getting here but I am a restless person and my mind is always chasing ideas and goals. If I don't try I will never know for sure. Are any of the mediums you mention 100% re usable? Meaning I can just flush them after a show and re use them again? Would I plant directly into the medium you suggest or have some sort of basket or plant holder in the medium? Any opinion on the Sure To Grow blocks?

 

[Bobby Smith]

I'd recommend 6" square pots (not netpots) and hydroton, which is reusable after being cleaned.

Bro, you're gonna need MASSIVE reservoirs with tables that size - without doing the math for gallons that each table could hold, I'm gonna guess around 250 gallons per table (and that's prolly on the low side - 300 or 350 would prolly work better for ya).

And you're not gonna be flooding several times an hour - once an hour is as high as most go (I flooded once every two hours when I had a hydroton/E&F setup).

After a week or two (depending on personal preference), you empty out the reservoir and mix fresh nutes.

I never used nor do I feel a chiller is worthwhile for an E&F/hydroton setup - some will disagree, but the oxygen to the roots comes when the flood subsides, so the amount of dissolved oxygen in the actual nute solution is fairly irrelevant (IMO).

Honestly, when looking at your current setup, the time and trouble to change it to an E&F setup (basically the need for 1000 gallons worth of reservoirs) leads me to believe it's probably not worth the change.

2-3 lbs./light is outstanding, and I'd recommend staying with your current setup.

 

[Northwest Skunk]

Picture of the 48 lighter running smoothly. Sadly it's retired now.

 

[Northwest Skunk]

Bobby Smith

I'd recommend 6" square pots (not netpots) and hydroton, which is reusable after being cleaned.

Bro, you're gonna need MASSIVE reservoirs with tables that size - without doing the math for gallons that each table could hold, I'm gonna guess around 250 gallons per table (and that's prolly on the low side - 300 or 350 would prolly work better for ya).

And you're not gonna be flooding several times an hour - once an hour is as high as most go (I flooded once every two hours when I had a hydroton/E&F setup).

After a week or two (depending on personal preference), you empty out the reservoir and mix fresh nutes.

I never used nor do I feel a chiller is worthwhile for an E&F/hydroton setup - some will disagree, but the oxygen to the roots comes when the flood subsides, so the amount of dissolved oxygen in the actual nute solution is fairly irrelevant (IMO).

Honestly, when looking at your current setup, the time and trouble to change it to an E&F setup (basically the need for 1000 gallons worth of reservoirs) leads me to believe it's probably not worth the change.

2-3 lbs./light is outstanding, and I'd recommend staying with your current setup.

If I would have to remove the hydroton and wash it all by hand after each show I don't think it's feasible.
Would it be easier to use rock wool or STG cubes then just discard them after each grow? Or are they re usable after a flush from the res with clearing solution?

If the grow medium is taking up most of the room in each table then are you sure I would need such a large reservoir? Currently the soil is taking up most of the room in the beds and I only need a 100 gallon to feed all the beds. If they were E & F draining beds with a medium still in them wouldn't I just need a bit larger of a reservoir since there is still medium filling them up?

I was just going from some of the vids on youtube I saw on E & F's I thought they were sayting to flood every 15 to 30 minutes?

I think if my res is in my grow room like it is in the 9 lighter I will have to chill my res. Even if I let my tap water in my res sit in the grow room for 24 to 48 hours to evaporate the chlorine the temperature of the water will rise right up quickly to mimic the temperature of the grow room.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Both rockwool and STG need to be discarded after each grow.

No, I'm not sure, but I need about a 50 gallon reservoir for a 4'x4'x7" table, so I was just doing some ballpark figures - your beds are abour five times bigger, so I just multiplied.

And I understand that your reservoir will get toasty, but you're not hearing what I'm saying - in hydroton, the temperature of your reservoir is not a big deal - if you went with rockwool or a more "wet" medium, than keepin your reservoir under 70F would prolly be a good idea.

 

[Thriv3]

Instead of changing over completely would u be able to just convert one bed to hydro? It'd be interesting to see them side by side all the way through!!!

 

[goleboy]

Keep your setup as you have it bro....2-3 per light ...in soil...is fucking stellar...your costs will significantly go up like electric just from all the added pumps timers ect...plus how do you beat the taste of soil frown buds...you don't...hydro is awesome but flat out soil is the best medium for our MJ plants...it's where jesus first put em ;-). I feel you on the "wandering mind" comment...but I would just explore new strains and find something that puts out just a little stiffer of a donkey penis cola and your good to go. My homie switched to hydro from soil, let me just say make sure you have the necessary insurance to cover flood damage,...500 gallon Rez to his entire single level home...not to mention the float valve didn't shut off so that sum bitch just kept a floodin'....whatever decision you make make sure you get good insurance

 

[antimatter]

Antimatter
I am very happy with where I am don't get me wrong it has taken a long and interesting road getting here but I am a restless person and my mind is always chasing ideas and goals. If I don't try I will never know for sure. Are any of the mediums you mention 100% re usable? Meaning I can just flush them after a show and re use them again? Would I plant directly into the medium you suggest or have some sort of basket or plant holder in the medium? Any opinion on the Sure To Grow blocks?

Canna Coco can be reused a couple time, but you know I personally don't like reusing it because of pathogens that could possibly spread from crop to crop and the scale of your grows would make reusing probably more hassle then its worth..

Sure to grow is crap nothing but bad reviews on the stuff. Fytocell which is different but sorta looks similar is supposed to be good but would need to be tested on a small scale before converting over to it.

Perlite is light for transport and is hydro, have read a few guys doing 100% perlite in sogs and said they had a good improvement. Coco is still heavy like soil and alot more expensive but you can use alot less of it and then theres canna coco slabs those look decent.

My conclusion is you want something you don't have to mix and you want something that is gonna be easier to transport and cleanup out of your beds so its either gonna be coco or 100% perlite or rockwool cubes which can get to wet. Im no mentor though I just do what I feel like doing and soil is f*cking out for me.

 

[Northwest Skunk]

Bobby Smith

Both rockwool and STG need to be discarded after each grow.

No, I'm not sure, but I need about a 50 gallon reservoir for a 4'x4'x7" table, so I was just doing some ballpark figures - your beds are abour five times bigger, so I just multiplied.

And I understand that your reservoir will get toasty, but you're not hearing what I'm saying - in hydroton, the temperature of your reservoir is not a big deal - if you went with rockwool or a more "wet" medium, than keepin your reservoir under 70F would prolly be a good idea.

Gottchya, thank you for explaining now I understand what you mean that the res temp matters more when the medium is wet for a longer period of time. Ya I think the res size thing is going to screw me.

Thriv3

Instead of changing over completely would u be able to just convert one bed to hydro? It'd be interesting to see them side by side all the way through!!!

That would be the best scenario to try but I would need my res to feed the soil beds and I don't have room to put another res in just for one bed, unless I do rock wool in the one bed and just hand water it hydro what do you guys think of that?

goleboy

Keep your setup as you have it bro....2-3 per light ...in soil...is fucking stellar...your costs will significantly go up like electric just from all the added pumps timers ect...plus how do you beat the taste of soil frown buds...you don't...hydro is awesome but flat out soil is the best medium for our MJ plants...it's where jesus first put em ;-). I feel you on the "wandering mind" comment...but I would just explore new strains and find something that puts out just a little stiffer of a donkey penis cola and your good to go. My homie switched to hydro from soil, let me just say make sure you have the necessary insurance to cover flood damage,...500 gallon Rez to his entire single level home...not to mention the float valve didn't shut off so that sum bitch just kept a floodin'....whatever decision you make make sure you get good insurance

You make a lot of good points. I love the smoothness and taste of my weed and I even re use my soil with no drain holes. Just give lots of water at the end with clearing solution. Ya I had a sealed room fill up a foot and a half deep with water from leaving a fill hose going in my res without it hooked up to a float valve before so I hear ya there I imagine there's much more opportunity for that to happen with hydro.

Antimatter

Canna Coco can be reused a couple time, but you know I personally don't like reusing it because of pathogens that could possibly spread from crop to crop and the scale of your grows would make reusing probably more hassle then its worth..

Sure to grow is crap nothing but bad reviews on the stuff. Fytocell which is different but sorta looks similar is supposed to be good but would need to be tested on a small scale before converting over to it.

Perlite is light for transport and is hydro, have read a few guys doing 100% perlite in sogs and said they had a good improvement. Coco is still heavy like soil and alot more expensive but you can use alot less of it and then theres canna coco slabs those look decent.

My conclusion is you want something you don't have to mix and you want something that is gonna be easier to transport and cleanup out of your beds so its either gonna be coco or 100% perlite or rockwool cubes which can get to wet. Im no mentor though I just do what I feel like doing and soil is f*cking out for me.

Thank you or your advice. Well I do currently re use my soil, but I was looking forward to using a new system where I could avoid the rota tilling, amending it, etc. I think I may have to be steered in the direction of using rock wool and hand watering the beds because of the size of res I would need by doing a E & F system.

How about this: I have found that the magic measurement for my spacing of plants in my sogs is 7" apart in my beds to achieve the best yield. What If I put rock wool in my beds and just hand watered them like I do currently with soil? Would you guys expect that if the system was the same in all other ways it would outyield the soil beds? Not sure if they make rock wool in sheets so I could make it custom fit in the beds, but worse come to worse I could put 6" blocks in.
This raises another question though; if I do it with rock wool cubes in the beds where do the roots go under the rock wool? Do they just cruise around on the bottom? I saw some youtube hydro vids where they put some kind of sheet or cloth type of stuff on the bottom of flood beds for the roots to surf around on. Would you guys suggest that stuff for doing it the way I'm thinking?
Doing just one bed this way in the room with the other two still using the soil method would be the ultimate comparison the only thing is that the center bed in the room always gets the most light because of the extra side light from the other two beds so if I did it in the center bed it would have an unfair advantage. The end bed against the wall is second best usually. I could do it on that one.

 

[Bobby Smith]

NWS, as a rule of thumb, the more often you feed, the faster your growth.

That's why DWC and aero are generally the fastest (feed constantly), and other hydro setups (E&F, top feed) are next, and then last is soil being fed every couple of days.

The rockwool would probably let you feed it several more times a week than your current soil setup (a few times a day vs. once every few days, I'm guessing) so it would be marginally faster, but again, I wonder if the incremental increase would be worth the extra risk of flooding and hassle of a gargantuan reservoir.

I'd stay with what you do, personally.

 

[420blunts]

glad to know that u been safe all this time northwest skunk. i learned alot from you from planetskunk 2 years ago with your sog shows. copied your style for 3 runs with pk but best pull was 1 1/2 per light. got tired of dumping & replacing the sunshine mix. for the last year and some change i've been using rockwool. 6" hugo rockwool blocks to be exact. what i've learned is that the 6" rw blocks holds way too much water for your style of growing single cola sogs. especially with pk since there not heavy drinkers. a very close friend of mine is doing 64 per 1k light of og kush with 4" rockwool blocks at the moment. he's in week 5 right now. he handwaters with a wand once a day. feed/feed/water schedule same as sunshine mix but just daily. so far so good. will definetly let you know the outcome if you're still interested by then. my next experiment with sog will be a custom made aeroflo system to fit 64 per light. the growth rate and bud size from the aeroflo is amazing. i've never personally seen og kush buds that big before :confused0054: