Ssh, What Do People Think About It? Top Shelf Or Not?

[rivendell]

the Rivendell or L12 from the mid 90s we still have .i have tasted a gangbuster amount of concentrates the shatter from this is truly the best ive have ever tasted,jilly bean too not the strongest best tasting .the pheno i kept from nevil leaned slightly to the nl5 side yeilding more and much quicker.the L12 cut is a 65-70 day strain i had another cut we called the f6 back in the 90s it was about 75 days we chose the shorter one because it had a fruiter/menthol flavor and a shorter timeframe (90s east coast ,wasnt the place for long strains)it was very simalar to arijans hawaiin snow and mango in 98 .The first maybe 8-9 ht cups were great,pretty much everything your smoking is a desendent .the bomb strain was nevils haze i saw 6' plants with maybe 50g on them at 120 days ,nevil popped out a huge ball finger roll at the greenhouse one yr ,must have taken a tremendous amount of plant material.shroomking the haze in the pic looks tastey true hazes and most landrace satavas take forever to finish months if ever.The real deal ssh i say pre 99 is the shiz .i do know shanti baba was in the mix back then for sure he may have the gear. i know still do .the jack the original jack was labeled as the coka cola and wouldnt offer the recipe back then but it was the ssh flopped parents swapped from what he told me then.as for the diesel he spoke of i cant comment.the diesel named by a freind back then was the chem dog fo sho,sporting the dog ancestry .i know that .
someone seems to have gotten the riv and is selling through sf dispensary ,the pics look like it but i would say a far cry from a proper rep

 

[rivendell]

another great one that i believe shanti may have is the nl5 (hindu kush-real kush)x haze nl5xhaze find the right one you,ll be real happy.
dont buy into the hype,and unless your working f1 into something special well good luck .hype fades (thats why all the pros want landrace cambodians,africans,mexicans,thais,veitnamese etc and all want the males .remember justin beber is cool to someone lmao dont get me wrong there are some killer og and sours out there or here :)

 

[happy b]

I think you need to pop a lot of seeds of it to find a good pheno though.


Mns ssh is £80(about $130)for 15 beans . If you can't find AT LEAST 2/3 desirable fems in every pack,that's bad IMO . THAT'S how I judge seeds company's stock . By how many desirable females per pack . not by how good 1 plant in 40 is . I hate it when I buy a pack of seeds with high expectations only to be really disappointed . it used to happen almost every time I bought seeds . until I moved away from the bigger more commercially oriented company's.

 

[happy b]

I'm hope less at this computer thing . sorry I made it look like ShroomKing said something I posted^^^^^^.

 

[ohthatguy8]

another great one that i believe shanti may have is the nl5 (hindu kush-real kush)x haze nl5xhaze find the right one you,ll be real happy.
dont buy into the hype,and unless your working f1 into something special well good luck .hype fades (thats why all the pros want landrace cambodians,africans,mexicans,thais,veitnamese etc and all want the males .remember justin beber is cool to someone lmao dont get me wrong there are some killer og and sours out there or here :)

The nl5xhaze that mns sells is not the same. They say they have the same haze male but shanti selected a new nl5 female from seeds nevil gave him. They were a nl5 bx project that nevil made. I grew only a half pack. Crazy huge buds but they smelled undesirable and tasted bad. Your ssh sounds awesome! Id love to smoke some it maybe would inspire me to crack some beans. Your experiences sound cool as hell to. I wish I could of been at one of the real deal cups. Or at the cannabis castle. I read at the first cup nevil poured a 5 gallon bucket of buds into a fireplace and closed the damper.

 

[rivendell]

well i,ll say this, nevil and the crew were way cool and even arijan in the early days, it was legit.Back in the late 80s 90s times were different to go somewhere anywhere and be among like minds without drama was eye opening.Many breeders (real Breeders) know whats up .Breeding f-2 and above genetics takes yrs.The second generation ak47 serious had they said it took 7 yrs (bullshit? took 2 yrs to do the rivendell) guys like nevil and s.s.s.c ,tony sagamartha,magnus geneitcs were killing the gear back then in holland , popping thousands and thousands of starts. Not 20 and selling 500 seeds like many phoney breeders now .i saw top daawg around lately J.J has the rep he is a real breeder among some select others imo (snag anything he has the star dawg is great bud).anyone can buy some seeds flop a male on a mother and get seeds the key is understanding the lineage, the reasons your combining them vrs just rocking it ala' natural.I know back in the day nevil claimed to have 15yr old mothers (true? probly.maybe i saw them :) ) Honestly at that time most of the serious crosses were from norcal and shipped over to breed in holland due to there laws for seed stock.But then and now the pros are searching for landrace strains.Ahghani,canbodian,veitnamese,african etc.(feminised seeds not for mwaa).im sure monsanto is already mastering it in a lab somewhere ..males are kings for a reason,expecially when crossing sativas.Nevil certainly went thru some personal things ,but man what a risk taker.He went deep to get the seeds where no one would .Like the mazar shariff during the soviet invasion .(great bud too) the original hashplant good god that shit was nasty.(smell ok potent couch lock ,sometimes the leaves were so thick it almost seemed like mites said fuck it i,ll move on ) nl5 nl1 nl9. i dont kiss and tell so i,ll stop there. The thing alot of younger guys dont think about is the amount of risk and diligence it took for guys to pioneer the movement of high grade medicine.Freedom fighters. there was a day when everyone raved over the new strain..noone could take credit yannow,these times are changing quickly here in the states .as for the rivendell it,s killer bud and comes in early for a haze,many famous musicians sought it out i,ll say that.But like i said in cali the meds of choice are anything with a sour or kush in it .funny thing is most arent even kushes.. mostly hype mixed in with some killer gear.I also keep hearing about the miami haze .seen it seems nice. as for the nl5 haze (ohthatguy8) thats a shame because almost everything as nevil said has the true nl5(hindu kush)or sk#1( i believe it was afghani,morrocan,mexican and thai maybe ) in it. sativa for the head,indica for the body or couch lol
peace

 

[Canman]

Incredible history Rivendell what a life you must have lived/live. Happy New Year from the Desert. I was wondering if you might solve a decades old mystery for me. Ok? Summer of '87 or 88 my best friend went to Amsterdam and brought home seeds bud and hash. I ended up with a couple of grams of a strain called "purple sinsemilla". The picture on the seed pack was of a fluorescent purple plant growing outdoors. The bud was a hue or two above lavender but nowhere deep purple. The appearance was so unique because everything about it was the same color purple. I think he got the goods at the grasshopper or turtle coffee shop. Was it Nevilles? I always wondered. we popped all the seeds and a less than a month into life the met their fate at the hands of my best friend's mom. Thrown out. Have a good one.
Canman (smiling remembering the description of NL5xHaze in the sssc. "Do not operated motor vehicle after smoking this weed").

 

[rivendell]

i rarely respond canman but i shall.i,ll be forthright as i feel i should.As for me i,m happy as ive ever been many have asked to for me to write down some of my times .At this time i,m not comfortable with that but hey mabe that will change with the times ahead.im in deep nor cal bro i could be most anywhere this is my home i love it here.
ok 87-88 ?remember like i said some of that timeframe is blurry from tour.my first trip over the pond was in 89 the year brent died from the dead.we had been rollin ssc stuff for a cple yrs before. mostly sk#1 nl1 early pearl etc.
the list would make your knees knock
Believe it or not back then you could go to a pay phone toss in 10 bucks or so in quaters or chingers :) and ring ring cannabis castle ask any question ya wanted about there gear .(believe me or not ).the above post from who i firmly believe was nevil told the tale of the sam and the cruz purples imo.i did not know them but my 67 yr old bro did.the famed purple haze from the brothers in the cruz was killer but before my time,i was told (?told) many yrs ago over 20 that it faded away and everything since isnt the original .out of my wheel house honestly it was a 70s thang.amsterdam imo didnt really get rolling until the late 80s as a destination for me atleast.it was kinda like jamaca to me at the time buds ya but far below what we were smokin,although i sure would like a clple things now from then.anything labeled like that when i was around was for the masses,and honestly the grasshopper was yawnville central.the real gear was either at sensi seed bank.aka nevil (nl1 so cal bred,nl5 ,hash plant sk#1,early pearl nevil haze etc) or s.s.s.c sacred sativa seed bank (williams wonder early girl hollands hope etc)imo.when the early 90s hit say 93 it popped off arijan had the greenhouse(great stuff then too like the ssh) in the redlight,guys like eagle bill (the volcano king) rip .and nevil were regs.tony sagamartha started,magnus had the original warlock which was awesome.serious seeds was kickin ,soma came around then dodging the states(reclinig buddah so tastey,soma 5 ).chillin with B real from cyprus, galactic and isreal vibrations was the hot shit.the grey area (ex pats)(yellow cab keif yum) was rocking and during the europe phish tour trey and mike stopped in the 50 sq ft grey area. pic was on the wall forever.i havnt been over since 2000 got old and too hyped out.i moved west and the rest is history.as for your purple sensimilla ? doubt it seriously that nevil had anything there it was kinda of a tourist stop like the bulldog .another great spot was the blue bird imported hashes from everywhere( nepalese finger rolls ) .the damkrin was also killer(shiva shanti = stanky!).the haze that nevil had he says which i beleive he kept the males and worked them into i guess. the modern haze. At the time everyone i knew wanted sativas because everyone was sick of 45-60 day indicas in the states ,over there guys like nevil were rolling 75-120 day strains with little to no bud on em(nevil haze was unreal ,larfy fluffy stringy and just insane).
So purple sensi doubt it .sensi means no seeds sooo confusing name in general sorry .but everything is so muttled up now it may have been something special now to work with .
peace
ps the nl5 x haze we had was to this day still some of the best meds i,ve ever taken. i prefer the haze i did though in 96' -L12

 

[ohthatguy8]

i rarely respond canman but i shall.i,ll be forthright as i feel i should.As for me i,m happy as ive ever been many have asked to for me to write down some of my times .At this time i,m not comfortable with that but hey mabe that will change with the times ahead.im in deep nor cal bro i could be most anywhere this is my home i love it here.
ok 87-88 ?remember like i said some of that timeframe is blurry from tour.my first trip over the pond was in 89 the year brent died from the dead.we had been rollin ssc stuff for a cple yrs before. mostly sk#1 nl1 early pearl etc.
the list would make your knees knock
Believe it or not back then you could go to a pay phone toss in 10 bucks or so in quaters or chingers :) and ring ring cannabis castle ask any question ya wanted about there gear .(believe me or not ).the above post from who i firmly believe was nevil told the tale of the sam and the cruz purples imo.i did not know them but my 67 yr old bro did.the famed purple haze from the brothers in the cruz was killer but before my time,i was told (?told) many yrs ago over 20 that it faded away and everything since isnt the original .out of my wheel house honestly it was a 70s thang.amsterdam imo didnt really get rolling until the late 80s as a destination for me atleast.it was kinda like jamaca to me at the time buds ya but far below what we were smokin,although i sure would like a clple things now from then.anything labeled like that when i was around was for the masses,and honestly the grasshopper was yawnville central.the real gear was either at sensi seed bank.aka nevil (nl1 so cal bred,nl5 ,hash plant sk#1,early pearl nevil haze etc) or s.s.s.c sacred sativa seed bank (williams wonder early girl hollands hope etc)imo.when the early 90s hit say 93 it popped off arijan had the greenhouse(great stuff then too like the ssh) in the redlight,guys like eagle bill (the volcano king) rip .and nevil were regs.tony sagamartha started,magnus had the original warlock which was awesome.serious seeds was kickin ,soma came around then dodging the states(reclinig buddah so tastey,soma 5 ).chillin with B real from cyprus, galactic and isreal vibrations was the hot shit.the grey area (ex pats)(yellow cab keif yum) was rocking and during the europe phish tour trey and mike stopped in the 50 sq ft grey area. pic was on the wall forever.i havnt been over since 2000 got old and too hyped out.i moved west and the rest is history.as for your purple sensimilla ? doubt it seriously that nevil had anything there it was kinda of a tourist stop like the bulldog .another great spot was the blue bird imported hashes from everywhere( nepalese finger rolls ) .the damkrin was also killer(shiva shanti = stanky!).the haze that nevil had he says which i beleive he kept the males and worked them into i guess. the modern haze. At the time everyone i knew wanted sativas because everyone was sick of 45-60 day indicas in the states ,over there guys like nevil were rolling 75-120 day strains with little to no bud on em(nevil haze was unreal ,larfy fluffy stringy and just insane).
So purple sensi doubt it .sensi means no seeds sooo confusing name in general sorry .but everything is so muttled up now it may have been something special now to work with .
peace
ps the nl5 x haze we had was to this day still some of the best meds i,ve ever taken. i prefer the haze i did though in 96' -L12

Keep posting I love your stories.

More nevil posts

Nev 3

Ownership of strains
"HAHAHA I'm sure that quote will have certain people/companies shuddering at the thought of 'their' company 'attempting' to do this without revealling whose work they used/stole without permission."

Thanks for bring this issue up Redeye 420 I've been waiting for an opportunity to bring up the subject of "ownership of strains". There are lots of opinions on the subject and I am only speaking for myself.

I'll start with an example.
If I buy a Dog, say a Bullmastiff, I can get one with or without papers. I might buy two brothers one with and one without papers. The one with papers is registered with the Kennel Society. You will get a pedigree certifying its parentage and ancestry clearly stating who bred what. His name might be "Chef vom Frankental" If you breed with this dog, as is your right, because you paid for the dog and it's registered name, you get to call the offspring what you want, you get to say that Chef was a son of the famous "Ladyface vom Frankental" and generally ride on the coat tails of the Frankental stud. Why, because you paid for it and it was a Frankental dog.
With the unregistered brother, you don't get these rights.

If you bought seeds from The Seed Bank. Say NL5 x HzC. You know that this is a Hybrid made from the Haze Brothers male line and the Northern lights female line. You know this because I didn't change the name Haze or Northern Lights. These were the names given to me when I bought the seed.
If you bought Early Pearl x Skunk#1, the same applies. As far as I'm concerned you can do whatever you want with these seeds, except change history. If you want to inbreed Nl5Hz and put F2 seeds on the market, why not you paid for them. You didn't by Chi P variabilis and call it NL5Hz, you paid full price. If are saying that you have bought Seed Bank seed and tell the truth about the ancestry and what you have done (F2), I don't have a problem with you. If you made a 4 way with the EPxSK1 and produce excellent hybrids well the same applies. You may in effect be doing advertising for me or you might get doing what people thought I should have done or people might think that the SK1 one was the biggest influence and chase that up in the future. It's all out there and people can draw there own conclusions. But if you say that you have developed these strains from your own collection, then you're a liar and a cheat.
N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil
Most of the work I did was with batches of 40-50 seeds at a time.
The variety I grew the most of was NL5xHzC. No.1 came out in the first batch of about 20 females. Over the years I've grown many 1000s. In most respects, it was still the best. No.122, the one Shanti dubbed the Mango, came after years of searching, a tireless quest on my part. Aspiring growers often came to me and I regularly made them start with 5Hz seed. There are a few cuts around from those exploits, but they weren't as good as 1 and 122. But almost. As I said before, there's not a sea of difference between the best out of 50 and the best out of 1000. But there is a difference for the most discerning.
N.

Originally Posted by Nevil
Still a lot of questions about haze and apparently a lot of conflicting stories.
I haven't been paying attention to what Sam the Skunkman has been saying. He lost me years ago and if he wants to come out from behind his alias and go toe to toe with me, well that will be just fine with me (hey David).
If he is saying that he gave me Purple Haze and it was crap, Well that's true. If he is saying that his lime green Haze was crap , well that's true too. If he is saying that he gave me a Haze cutting, well to be honest, I can't remember, but if he did it was crap. I seem to recall that he entered his lime Haze in a Cup, if he did he got his arse kicked.
The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.
Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!
Quote:
I'm wondering about these things you used to test "female" male flowers, where would Joe Schmoe get something like this?
I've been looking lately, Bayer has a product called Ethrel. It should do the job.
N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowsitall4sure / Cannabis World
I was at the first High Times Cannabis Cup and can assure you that Neville did not buy any Original Haze seeds there. He had gotten them well before the event. And he did get a clone from me because he did not want to grow out a few hundred Original Haze seeds to pick out a keeper.
The first Cannabis cup was at my house so this knowitall doesn't know much. For sure.
I've already passed on what I know about the Haze. Burning Bush was a plant that Sam mentioned. This quote would indicate that he is not the breeder of the '69 seeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman / Icmag
The first homegrown I smoked was 1968 from Laguna Beach grown by one of the Brotherhood Of Eternal Love, it was Mexican and not yet done, but still more potent then seeded imports.
N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowsitall4sure / Cannabis World
I was at the first High Times Cannabis Cup and can assure you that Neville did not buy any Original Haze seeds there. He had gotten them well before the event. And he did get a clone from me because he did not want to grow out a few hundred Original Haze seeds to pick out a keeper.
The first Cannabis cup was at my house so this knowitall doesn't know much. For sure.
I've already passed on what I know about the Haze. Burning Bush was a plant that Sam mentioned. This quote would indicate that he is not the breeder of the '69 seeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman / Icmag
The first homegrown I smoked was 1968 from Laguna Beach grown by one of the Brotherhood Of Eternal Love, it was Mexican and not yet done, but still more potent then seeded imports.
N.

On the subject of hybrids and stabilising lines, I'd like to say a few words. From the perspective of an experienced and critical smoker, the blending of types can only be done genetically. What I mean to say is that mixing pure Haze weed and pure NL together and smoking it, will not give you the same effect as the hybrid would. The hybrid is better! Inbreeding the hybrid and making F2s and so on will not give you a product that is the equal of the original F1. You may get a different version that is very good, but it won't have that perfect blend of the F1. Subtleties that come from the exact 50-50 blend of the F1 get lost under a layer of more dominant traits that are expressed more and more as you continue to inbreed brothers to sisters.
It's not that I'm against this tek to create an IBL. I know it to be effective, it's just that if you have a F1 hybrid that excels be cause it's a blend of polar opposites, you won't hold on to that by inbreeding to siblings. This method of creating IBLs is more suited to hybrids that are put together because of their similarity of type.
N.

Quote:
Sensi never had anything of their own. Prior to 1990 I sold seeds to Sensi to cover the Dutch market. Any reputation they had came from those seeds. I was a mistake to sell to Ben. Despite the deal, as soon as I ended up in jail Ben stopped buying seeds to put me under financial pressure to sell everything to him. He haggled for 6 months while lawyers chewed up my available cash. In the end, I was forced to sell for less than what I paid for the House and the 10Ha surrounding it. I got nothing for my stock. This is why I had no compunction in taking back my cuttings and a handful of seeds when I left. In the 2 years that I worked there as a consultant, I got everything back on track and then left. I left them in good shape, but considering that nobody there is so much as a breeders arsehole. I don't expect anything good will be produced again.
N.





I'm picturing a Southern Hemisphere summer solstice. Out on a property in the bush, miles from interference with a couple of hundred dedicated smokers testing the best weed of the century. Hmmm and I want some pretty girls there too. Something could be organised.
N.

 

[ohthatguy8]

Nev 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion
I had understood that the original Ortega was made from Maple Leaf Indica,
by Nevil
namely
AfghanT x Ortega #15

now at Mr Nice
I see it is listed as Inbred NL1 x NL5 in strains section,
I am confused too.
The plants Ortega I have now do not look like NL
they are darker,thinner leaves and have a wonderful berry/dank/unique under tone,whatever they are I fully intend to explore them .

scorpion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil
If a fellow who calls himself Dogless starts talking about the origins of the Ortega lines, I'd advise you to Sit and pay attention.
N.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil
I don't know anywhere near as much about Afghanis as I'd like to. I've seen some great ones, but mostly cuttings. In my mind, they were all representatives of different sub-strains of indica, grown in the different valleys and regions of the Hindu Kush area. It's a pleasing thought. Ever so rarely, something comes along that I think, that's different, it's not one of mine, like that Purple British Hempire was talking about. Another valley maybe. As I puff away in my imaginary world, I'm comforted with dreams of Hash Plant hill or Maple Leaf mountain and G13 gorge. There must also be a lush valley that produced the fat sticky buds of the legendary Big Bud. Maybe there's a hidden Shangri-La that google earth can't find that hides delights as yet undiscovered.
Each of the indica lines seem to breed true to type, supporting the idea that we are dealing with separate families.

As pleasing as the idea is, it doesn't fit all of the facts as I know them. I'd still like to think that it is at least partly true, but I don't have direct evidence of this. I have evidence that like breeds like.

Maple Leaf indica threw a spanner in the works of my conveniently ordered universe. This strain was given to me by a guy known to me as Jim Ortega. The first noteworthy plant that popped out was like Big Bud. Despite looking like a full indica, it smelled like bubblegum (like BB). Next was a Hash Plant and Northern Lights 1 type, totally different. Finally came the 2 sisters I named AfgT and AfgS, these 2 encapsulated the full range of fruity Skunk types.

You can tell how it did my head in by the random names these plants got.
In the beginning I was happily calling it Maple leaf. Tralalalala, my universe is ordered, it's the Bug Bud type.
Then a certain hashy dankness came, and I started calling it Ort, for Ortega. After seeing just about every indica type, I get 2 archetypal skunk types. I haven't got a clue anymore and I'm calling it Afg, for Afghan.

What I can tell you is that each of the indica archetypes (as I think of them ), breeds true to type to a large degree. Big Bud breeds plants like Big Bud. Even the ML AfgT that came out of such a variable gene pool is dominant for it's type. Mixing and matching the various Afghan SK1 hybrids, which have become the mainstay of the commercial cannabis, will continue to throw back to the various Afghan types which in my mind, have been selected as the ideal type by different growers over countless generations, each grower picking the archetype he likes best in mixed fields.

I don't suppose we are ever going to get at the truth until "War Mongers" stop invading that country and encouraging poppy production. I hope that there is still a good gene-pool left for the Afghani' to do what they did best, Make Hash!
N.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil
Maple Leaf was not related to Northern Lights and didn't cross well with pure NL. Too much Indica. Hybrids of both strains dis cross well when they contained more sativa.
ML loves Skunk1. My nose and intuition tells me that these two are distantly related.

Jim Ortega is around and can speak for himself if he chooses. I get the feeling that he has spoken before and few listened.

The Afghan/hash plant is probably HPxNL1. Not a great yielder but gee it was strong.
N.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil
I don't know what Ed is calling Maple leaf.
Ortega 15 was Maple leaf . This was crossed with AfgTx Sk and AfgS x sk males. (So this means Ortega15 was female)
AfgT and AfgS were both sisters and pure maple leaf. Maybe Ed thought that AfgS meant Afg(Sam). It doesn't. The hybrid Ed is talking about is 3/4 Maple Leaf.
N.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil
Ortega 3 was crossed with Ort 15 male. (So this means Ortega15 was male)
contradictory information?
Or was Ortega15 a seedline?
This would be from that line if it came from Ed.
N.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil
The Maple Leaf came from a guy known to me as Jim Ortega. We traded seeds for a while. Not only did he supply me with Maple Leaf, but also Garlic Bud and Kush 4. The cannabis smoking world owes him a lot.

The Maple Leaf line provided me with a plant that I labeled Afghan T. This plant is the mother of Super/Ultra Skunk and also crossed well with HzC.

Kush 4, I crossed with NL2(which had the same Kush smell) and this Kush Hybrid is the foundation of todays Kush lines.

Garlic bud has also made it's presence felt and is part of todays super yielders.

Let me say one more thing about ML AfgT. This plant had exactly the same smell as Sams best SK1 but more so. It is the true Skunk archetype. I do not believe for one N.Y. minute that Afghani#1 is behind the SK1, which IMO gives credence to the Mendecino Joe story about SK1.

The world owes you a big Thank You Jim!Let me be the first to say that I appreciate the work that you have done.
N.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevil
When I first got the NL varieties, there were 8 types, 1-8.They came with descriptions, which I published in my catalogue. These descriptions may not correlate with what later developed. The original intention was to purchase seeds from the US NL growers. It didn't work out and supply dried up. I kept the lines separate and inbred them. NL1 and NL2 stabilised into distinct types and NL5 only produced one unique individual.
NL1 was a full blood Afghan indica. One thick main stem, dark green leaves, modest yield with nuggety buds, a little coarse with good resin production, which when ripe went golden. The high was narcotic. The seeds ranged from tiny to massive. I used to love the big ones. Large fat heavily and darkly mottled seeds. Selecting for these seeds made this Afghan even coarser. It was fun to show people these seeds.
The best line of NL1 actually came from the smaller seeded types, better high and bud structure.
There weren't many pure indica lines around in those days. Big Bud, Hash Plant and G13 were pure indicas in my estimation, but were cuttings. NL1 was the only good pure Afghani male line I had.( there was Sams Afghani#1, but that was toxic in a bad way) The NL2 was a Kush.
I put the NL1 out there as a pure strain. I wasn't popular. People would tell me, "give me the pure strains", but if it cost them 10% of their yield they would complain, well try 50%.
The pure indica hybrids were more popular. NL1 x HP and NL1 x G13 were the best. At least people could use the word pure (very popular). But they were good!

 

[Bulldog11]

Glad I started this thread, it has evolved into a treasure trove of information. Thanks for coming in and sharing Rivendell

 

[ohthatguy8]

Shanti baba

Shanti


Apparently the discussion about neville's haze x mango has been going on for awhile. Here's a quote from dr. longbottom in 2007 that actually sounds about right to me:

nevilles haze x mango is a different strain than mangohaze....if i recall correctly ''mango" is the name of one of the boy hazes that shanti uses in his breeding program. when he made mangohaze he used a sister plant to the mother of ssh and used the same father for both...the mango. In the nevilles haze x mango I beleive he just crosses his neville haze with the same boy haze (mango) used for both ssh and mangohaze. DLB


Digging through some of the old archives I found some posts that are relevant to the topic, and some are just interesting. A few were from before the mns forums started...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shantibaba
just to set the records straight MNS has a pure haze female also and thanks to Nev and the santa cruz haze bros these genetics were worked on well. BUt it is not practical to put on the market as the NH is already an extremely time consuming plant to do. What the cannabis world needed was practical hazes thus the birth of SSH, Mango Haze, and EQhaze....so on....which are all available from MNS. The other less stable hybrids that include haze as a parent are things like NH Mango, NHwidow, Mango widow and so on which I do make every so often...definitely not on a regular basis.
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Hi All

the G13 cutting was crossed to a skunk male in the early 90's when the G13 cutting seemed to be on its way out. Nev did several crosses to combine the genes before the plant became extinct in its pure female form. So I went on with several of these lines one is G13skunk(female) combined with the widow male(same widow used for the BW, MM ,La N and SS).

I hope that clears things up for you all.

Wishing you all a great and safe 2007...all the best SB
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ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ

all the best,
Shantibaba
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Hi all

should be a pretty easy comparison considering the parents that make the F1 SSH seed are identical to the ones pre 1998 at the GHSco...but good luck with your selection process.All the best sb
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ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ

all the best,
Shantibaba
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Hi All

just to clarify it all for you so noone gets wrong facts in the right place.I never worked for Sensi Seed, Nevil was working with them after he got back to NL from his problems in Australia....early 90s. I was working setting up GHSco with Arjan, and Nev and I were friends. In between all the company crap Nev and I did alot of breeding together swapping and cloning etc...without the knowledge of any one else as these were breeding projects others were not involved in nor really showed interest in. At some stage we came out with Dr Kevorkian...a strain that was in between SSH and NH genetically. After that we began enjoying the exchange and Nev finish his co working with Sensi Seed, retiring to breeding carp and cannabis in a smaller way. That is when Nev and I spent alot of time together and Nl5/Haze/Mist was one of those things we did which won a cup...similarly I was working on the White line to make stable seed lines which took a long time.The weed was out long before the stable seed was...that is why the GHSco did not have seed till 1995/6...if people check well there was no seed sold with these names until after then even though there are loads of claims contrary to the truth. And since the early 90s Nev and myself played with alot of projects until I took over all things when Nev had other things on his plate.The history goes like that according to what I was involved in....all the best Sb
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ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ

all the best,
Shantibaba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shantibaba
When you have a series of males.Without checking for early resin gland production or any other trait you should look for uniformity of the plant.If you take the internode space from the bottom of the plant and follow it up to the top of the plant.What you should find is the plant displays a 1:1.6 ratio.If you see the bottom internode space is 1cm and the next internode space is 1.6cms and so on...then I say this is a better more stable plant to select...as well as takeing other traits into consideration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shantibaba
to base it on the internode ratio is one important factor for inbreeding genetic consistency that is already inherent.But by far not the only factor.
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Hi All

well what did I learn in Irian Jaya....well they really do not have the cannabis culture there...it is mainly the native Papua's who actively use and cultivate so it is more easier to find it on the Papua New Guinea side. But those few I came across in remote areas and do their thing, are growing as primitives do from seed they interbred generation after generation which makes it quite exciting to research.

I showed those locals some basic things to reduce their seed content, but I really do not need to go there and show them things that take it from a hobby to a profession. So I just collect seed and move on. It would be extremely difficult to go back there as it was probably the toughest trek physically and mentally I and the other 7 ever did in the life and all of us were well adapted to doing things like this.So my collection of seed is now getting grown out on a remote and unihabitate island in the indonesia archipelago by a few captains who regularly pass these islands...so we will need patience and persistance.

I could write a chapter on what I learnt, but basically these people are cut off from the world where no mobile phones work...and it was so rare to experience a place like this in the 21st century.....I am better for it.

If you guys want to see some nice info on them then check out Papua New Guinea & West Papua - Tours & expedition, that gives a good idea.
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ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ

all the best,
Shantibaba

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Stereotaxic Cat
the story about SSH and WWS was difficult to follow . If you were one of the guys who bought things there you may want to get your SSH from Gypsy, online alien, doc chronic, the seedsman, vu-du.com and several others as these are all the shops that stock the originals in breeders packets. Considering SSH has always been an excellent stable breed it surprises me alot to hear anything disappointing about the breed.

My best advice to those in doubt is to talk to others online about those who bought things from WWS and see if others had similar problems...

all the best Sb
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ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ

all the best,
Shantibaba

Shanti said the pyramid/triangle shaped buds and the less yielders are the master kush leaning phenos and are more desirable.


Hi All

well sorry if there is some confusion, since I wrote up so much stuff lately I feel I should reread things that have been put up online.I will check things out and correct them if need be .But this will need a few days as i am away working on plants at present.

Remember a few things when reading up. Nevil made alot of things in the 80s and early 90s and left alot in seed form. I was working on my series of plants simultaneously when Nev left to Oz, AND OVER THE YEARS MADE SELECTIONS FROM SEED STOCK . So there will always be differences from the original phenotype of mine and Nev, since we prefer different things, but the genotype is fixed.

Anyhow will reread things over the weekend and sort it out. But if you wish to clear something up it is better to ask rather than begin hypothesis , since we are all still alive to answer. All the best sb
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ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ

all the best,
Shantibaba
http://www.mrnice.nl

Originally Posted by shantibaba
Hi All

just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....

Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969
Haze A is no longer alive only Haze C male is along with several other different sativa lines.

but plants with the lineage of Haze A are still alive and carrying the genes within.

SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC

the Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference

Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants

considering the Haze A is no longer a male alive, it still is alive in the ancestry of some of the plants used in all these breeds

I do not have secrets about breeding but given the same seed batches we could all still create something different...it boils down to selection.

La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all.

There is no one other than Simon at serious seeds who follows breeding plants like we do.Most Dutch seed companies use females plants obtained from seed batches that were passed on to them or sent to them, making their origins a little doubtful at certain stages. The whole seed industry based alot of things on Neville's origins in fact , but none except Sensi Seed had the parent plants to replicate things time and time again. Whether plants dies or were lost to disease over the years...well most companies would probably not tell anyone, but think about it.How many back ups of parent plants would you need in how many countries to be sure never to loose an important line? As enforcement on growers gets more and more restricting rooms get found etc....and the law of averages catches up on you. My last problem with the Swiss authorities I lost all plants in my library...some 42 mum's and dad's...luckily we keep backup of all the most important plants in 5 different countries and have done for years...if we had not had done this then we too would have lost alot of heirlooms. I do keep original batches of seed from years ago also in several places just in case I have to go all the way back to the drawing board to do selection again...but that is as bad as it gets for us.

As you can see it is alot of work in alot of places to just keep things alive...not to mention the expenses and time factor involved.

Lastly just to clarify things to do with this site...well I do all the moderating alone plus the pms and all questions and answers....so if there is something wrong on this site it is me who made it. I have a webman to do the technical aspects but all content and daily admin of the site is up to me. Howard will be helping in a limited way one day but he is a busier person than anyone else I know. Nev is not one for public life or cyberspace...and due to family committments is happy to do some work on plants but nothing else.So I am afraid you are all dealing with Shantibaba...whether you like it or not.

 

[Bulldog11]

Thanks everybody, and special thanks to ohthatguy. Mad info bro, thanks

 

[rivendell]

interesting read brings back alot of memories.its been forever and i want to clarify something. when we were around during that time guys like nevil ,shanti, and simon were the teachers.And no matter what anyone says to the contrary i firmly believe nevil was the master setting the standards imo.(as he said ,almost! every strain you smoke today has either his nl ,haze or sk#1 in it lineage period)I had the maple leaf it was great ,and sams af #1 not alot of smell but potent,and the original hp#1 which was crazy strong took alot of beans to get the one.and the nl1(toughted as the indoor plant).and the the nl5 which i loved.and the nevil haze and all the hazes really.maybe still do . curiosity would ask after rereading nevil post. i got a nl#9 from him in 87 or 88 a variety pack once, love to know what that was.shanti speaks the truth in all he wrote imo . he was in it when i met arijan and they did not sell seeds .the mango was great as the hawaiin snow.i back crossed the 96 sshfrom nevil shorter flower fem on the hazest male of a gang buster bunch then did it back again on the same dad again after running through that stock repicking the chunky skunky haze = rivendell or L12 back then (12th seed from that run)arijan loved it ,nevil had split by then and had gotten screwed imo ,never got it over there to them .the g per sq ft has been staggering at times. never less then 1.5 and 2.5 many times and cple yrs ago freind got 2.7 g per watt .believe it ? couldnt care less i speak only truth. Its just not hyped here like the sours and the og ( which i saw from during the dog to chem to sour days, i was a stones thrw away.. ahh Grateful dead tour("kind trades for your extras" and phish too eventually :) .As for the whites ya did the great white shark etc in 96 i guess very rezy (brazillian x i believe) not alot of smell though.one of the best strains back then to me was the warlock by magnus ive seen it around here and there i do not know if it is still the same(tested in the mid 20% then,much better then that ice cut yawn ).i remember when arijan and the guys had the issues in switzerland 97 maybe..After 911 we stopped going over just alot of hoodle heads and pot tourist emabarrassing really,so we bailed i came to the triangle .nevil had split,funny i forgot about the koi thing he loved breeding fish as i did at the time too.If half of the so called breeders in the states read some of the above post it would serve them well.EXPECIALLY THE PEDIGREE COMMENT.upon leaving the east and coming west to be free and medical the need to fly across the world to chat faded.i,m not here to say where is the best place to be or the best yada yada. i do know that the triangle is as original school as it gets or say big sur to eugene.regardless of the states following the stock is mostly from that area.strickly my opinion and mine only.but if there was a mt rushmore of herb it sure as hell isnt snoop and b real and redman .seriously lmao!!... it would be nevil shanti and a cple cats from the norcal. again my opinion cervantes and ed would get a stone plack :) .and i,ve been there and back.How about dwc or nft in 87? :)

 

[soserthc1]

Reading these post made me pause and think about the statement that most of the strains of today are originally for Seedbank stock and thou I was not involved then it kinda makes sense to me. Just seems like a bunch of speculation until there is some kinda of strain dna database but some how I think this debate just lingers on.

My questions @rivendell first there is no mention of the creation of nl5 just that it was the original mother to NH and a few others originals . Where did the seeds that produced nl5 come from and who breed this strain. Is it alive in any gardens or does anyone claim to hold it ....SAMs ? Database contain this ?

Neville give credit to Sam for the haze seeds given to him in mid 80s and states they were grown in the states in 69/70 do we know where these seeds originated from or should I say who they originated from ( my guess from reading would be the haze brothers but then up pops the debate if they even existed

When he states some phenols were diesely and fuelly is he basically saying that all your og's and chems originate or have his genes in there somewhere . Get also says that there are a few exceptions any thoughts on those genes or strains

Blessings
Sose

 

[Canman]

Went down to the corner store and picked up what they are calling Mango Kush.

 

[rivendell]

There is a strain called mango in cali not related as far as i know ,im sure i could find out big outdoor gear .
That looks very kushy canman.tastey im sure .looks like the mango from mendo honestly
Soser the way i remember it and i think somewhere along this thread he spoke about it.definatley not afghani #1 from cruz sam.Although nevil did sell a afghani #1 in like 88 same i dont know, it was short and stocky .I remember? the original northern lights was brought from afghanastan (hindu kush region)in the mid 70s from a cat in so cal .and into the early 80s was popped off as some of the first stout indoor(indica) nevil got thse seeds and cracked them making the 1 thru he says 7 above i think but i had a 9 from him in 89' in a variety pack. the hash plant he spoke of also i kinda remember him getting them himself and it was pure inidca .i mean pure indica.when we got those maybe 1 in 5 females were insane short stout nasty indica.at the time it was considered the ultimate indica imo.( he also aquired the mazar sheriff strain at that time which was bitchin kush .
The as people say "haze brothers" from santa cruz
well there real.the seeds were as i believe a landrace sativa from the far east probly or maybe mexico or columbia.some of the sativas from south of the border were the best anywhere. thing is imo they all originated from landrace strains.so like a wave for a surfer does anyone own it .nada. but the manipulation of the landrace lends itself to taking ownership for "creating it" .no matter what anyone says there all from landrace strains then crossed mostly by just letting them mix back then by choice or not. (70s )sensimilla was almost non existant .indoor changed alot of that honestly .High end breeding imo was pioneered by shumaucher .he took it to a whole different level.alot to due with hollands seed production laws .cats took there gear to him or there creating almost everything serious back then that wasnt say columbian or thai or mexican afghani was almost completley hash material ie mazar shariff .remember or not a thai stick back then was a stick because the buds were larfy as hell and had little structure wrapped around a stick but ( a land race sativa packing a heady punch)just my opinion.everyone gets caught up in who did what now and wants to claim they did it.it mostly a crock imo really because everyone got a seed from somehwere else and worked with it.up until the last say 8 yrs everything was dark atleast people who were in the know.that is starting to change ,thing is it really wasnt that big of a deal back then.nevil and sensi really tightened it up kept mothers forever as in yrs and yrs and yrs . this allowed real crossing and f2 and above gear creating "stabilized gear" .like shanti says its a crap shoot with a tremendous amount of work and even more time .The thing is that many of these seeds still exist,cats just arent getting off em .yet atleast. Like i said earlier the pros are seeking out unadulterated landrace strains mostly sativas for a reason! lately its coke or pepsi 7up or sprite really annoying.The people that know whats up still rock alot of ole skool genes period. like 91 chem as in 1991 there no need to make a doberman into a st berdoberman. but i can bet a dollar to a doughnut that probly 75% of every strain has sk#1 /nl5 or haze in it period nevil was involved in them all imo . again these are my opinions only. not like i was around back then :)

 

[Bulldog11]

Should we know who you are Rivendell? You seem to run with some big names, just wondering. Thanks again for all the information, I should pop the African landrace beans I have. I have around a 1000. Got them in Jamaica, from a Jamaican breeder.

 

[rivendell]

lol .no comment :) lets just say i,ve been around for a hot minute^2 .I havnt seen the holland crew. in yrs no need anymore other then to say hi. As for the africans you may have something special there,may take alot of em to get a few .seek the males tightest node spacing sativa dom ( the real durban poison is 90+% sativa and looks and tastes alot like the hazes, it is a haze imo remember haze was a name like skunk serious sativas are lanky lose and very strong.ie nevil haze )once again depending on where your at you could have an african male or female that would give a serious cat a woody, if he doesnt already have it :)but most will look past unless it says coke or pepsi on the label.go figure but jay z is hot too
peace
i will return to the shadows until the bat signal arises again

 

[hyzerflip]

This begs an interesting question - I hear a LOT about the old hazes people used to experience and how next level they were - Rarely do I hear from someone who currently has a cut of this quality that they can genuinely say is better than any of today's elites. I wonder, is all of this Haze worship just 'grass-is-greener' mis-remembering of old experiences? I'm sure it's good, but is it really better than, say, OG Kush or Sour Diesel?

Full disclosure: I've run and smoked SSH (via clone) and Sam the Skunkman's Original Haze x Skunk #1 (via seed). Both were decent, but neither were better than the Sour Diesel or Headband I had running next to them, and they were faaaaar longer and waaaay lower yielding. It is possible that I've never smoked a haze of the quality that the old timers always speak of, but I'm starting to suspect Haze is more legend than reality.

I'm genuinely interested in the answer to this question - I have a 9 pack of MNS SSH I'm waiting to pop, but I'm not going to the considerable trouble if I can't find someone who *currently* has an SSH cut they'd consider elite enough to hang with today's best.