Stop The Bro Science Behind Molasses And Other Organic Stuff

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Hpo777

Hpo777

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***NEVER USE – Blackstrap molasses*** If you do some of your own reading online about compost tea brewing one of the biggest things you will run across is the recommendation to use blackstrap molasses as the microbial food in the tea. This used to be widely accepted as a great way of brewing tea. The issue is that without a firm understanding of soil biology and what microbes look like under a microscope people actually brew up anaerobic teas the majority of the time with blackstrap molasses. This is why that happens even with an air pump -- molasses is a simple sugar which feeds bacterial populations very quickly basically as junk food. As the bacterial populations grow they take over the entire tea and use up all the oxygen, this causes the tea to become anaerobic as soon as the ppm (parts per million) of dissolved oxygen drop below 8 (6ppm is the critical point). There are plenty of bacteria all over this planet and we really don’t need to brew up heavy bacterial teas, rather we want to brew up complex teas that have a huge variety of life in them, not only bacteria but also fungi, protozoa and nematodes. When you only feed simple sugars to the microbiology in the tea brewing process the bacteria will out multiply all the other good guys and take over the entire tea. We instead feed complex foods to the tea so the fungi, protozoa and nematodes have a chance to grow and multiply. If you really want to use molasses in your brewing it is highly advisable to also get yourself a microscope so you can monitor the tea and make sure you use it before it goes anaerobic.

Good info above also Elaine Ingram backs this theory. It's always good to make sure all that you're doing is backed by science. Just because you heard someone do something doesn't mean it's solid evidence.

Also remember with organic gardening and "super soil" you're not feeding your plant...youre feeding your microbial life.

Fungicides and pesticides are a NO NO for organic gardeners, you disrupt the soil food web! Even "organic" ones can disrupt this!

Any questions or comments are very welcome here!
 
Hpo777

Hpo777

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Also guys remember compost piles are AMAZING for our environment! It's good for you...your plants...and the earth!

I said not to use fungicides and pesticides...uhh How do I get rid of the "bad shit" Then?

So your bacteria are gonna be the big boys here! They are a fortress for diseases and pest! Remember a good "soil"(not dirt, soil means living, dirt is no organic matter) maintains the top of your plant...just as much as the lower! As long as your bottom soil is aerobic...those bennies will fight! A good tip to stop "compacting"(causing your roots not dig and also causing anaerobic pockets) is to throw some cover crop! Or mulch etc. I prefer cover crop(if your in larger containers) it's pretty, it's cheap, and it does the work for you(perk to cover crop is you can get a beneficial crop to aid in the growth process by providing nitrogen etc).
 
Ceveres

Ceveres

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I think it is a bit much to say never use molasses. I agree that blindly brewing without measuring equipment can yield imperfect results, but when brewed under 24-36 hours I dont believe that is long enough for the tea to go anerobic. I actually had email correspondence with the people at Progressive Farms that make 'Compost Tea in a Box' and asked them a little about using molasses in teas. This was part of his response;

"Molasses gets a bad name in the compost tea world, mostly due to faulty studies like this one: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._E_coli_O157H7_And_Salmonella_in_Compost_Teas

Note that there was no DO measured and there was no diversity present. Of course e.coli will grow with no competition in the presence of molasses. DUH! Anyway, we highly recommend molasses. "

I definitely use it much more sparingly than I used to. Not going around telling people 'flush with molasses and honey bruh it will sweeten your smoke' lol
 
Hpo777

Hpo777

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I think it is a bit much to say never use molasses. I agree that blindly brewing without measuring equipment can yield imperfect results, but when brewed under 24-36 hours I dont believe that is long enough for the tea to go anerobic. I actually had email correspondence with the people at Progressive Farms that make 'Compost Tea in a Box' and asked them a little about using molasses in teas. This was part of his response;

"Molasses gets a bad name in the compost tea world, mostly due to faulty studies like this one: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._E_coli_O157H7_And_Salmonella_in_Compost_Teas

Note that there was no DO measured and there was no diversity present. Of course e.coli will grow with no competition in the presence of molasses. DUH! Anyway, we highly recommend molasses. "

I definitely use it much more sparingly than I used to. Not going around telling people 'flush with molasses and honey bruh it will sweeten your smoke' lol

It feeds bacteria and bacteria only...bacteria is very present in every soil...fungi, protozoa, nematodes(root feeders, fungal and bacteria feeders) aren't in abundance as bacteria is. So brewing a complex tea is far more beneficial.(I think K.I.S.S when making teas keep it simple stupid) unless you can really test and judge if bacteria isn't present...which for 99.9% of us isn't an option...i say never. Their are far better options to safely implement bacteria into your soil!

All the information I've gathered about molasses is from school(soil science program) and Elaine Ingram. Personally I take Elaine Ingrams word as fact. She's incredibly brilliant and incredibly honest. If she says no...im inclined to believe the mother of soil science lol

That being said if you really want to and think you need some more bacteria...id keep the brew under 24 hours, honestly 16-18 hours, and id absolutely use an air pump that is more than enough for what I'm doing 70lpm+ for 3 gal brews. Wearing gloves and other protective equipment would be a must as well!

Watering with molasses mixed with water...yea for sure! I won't deny it's effects. I just think we should shift thinking away from it being in teas for the better of the community as a whole. Here is what i use with amazing effects and have never ran into diseases or pest.

Clone tea
1/4 cup EWC
(Steeped not brewed)

Veg Tea(16-18 hour brew)
1/4 cup EWC
2tsp kelp meal
1.5 mil fish hydroslate
(Swap kelp and alfalfa meal every other watering)

Flower Tea(24 hour brew)
1/4 cup EWC
1tsp kelp
1/4 tsp fish bone meal
(Swap bone meal for soft rock phosphate every other watering or if you want more bacteria swap for a high P guano and that'll do the trick)
 
Hpo777

Hpo777

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Also...im not saying I'm an expert, nor am I the best grower, or have the best understanding of microbial life...just from professors to Elaine...id say be CAREFUL! That's all! I'm no elitist, and I hope no one gets that vibe! Just very passionate lol
 
Ceveres

Ceveres

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Also...im not saying I'm an expert, nor am I the best grower, or have the best understanding of microbial life...just from professors to Elaine...id say be CAREFUL! That's all! I'm no elitist, and I hope no one gets that vibe! Just very passionate lol
I by no means think you're an elitist. I'm always down for new information and to learn something, and I'll def give your tea regimen a try! Dr. Elaine Ingham is a brilliant scientist, I agree. Was just trying to spark debate/conversation, all in good fun.
 
CaliRooted

CaliRooted

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I've read all of her info on the web, very good stuff. I don't fully agree, I have been using molasses for years in my Tea's, I believe it's more in the amount you use. I do use more in my veg tea's than flower and my plants never complain.
IMG 20170703 080015706
 
Hpo777

Hpo777

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I by no means think you're an elitist. I'm always down for new information and to learn something, and I'll def give your tea regimen a try! Dr. Elaine Ingham is a brilliant scientist, I agree. Was just trying to spark debate/conversation, all in good fun.
Oh Good! Just sometimes people think I come off a little rough lol but yes I love exchanging ideas and info!
 
Hpo777

Hpo777

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Go read microbeorganics.com the entire read, then we should have this discussion. I learned so much for that site

I'm sure that the info on that site is the same I'm being taught at UCCS with my soil science program! So let's have that conversation! Just because someone does something and they say it works...doesnt mean it's at it's full potential...why add more bacteria heavy teas where bacteria is already in abundance? Why not implement complex teas? I'd agree using molasses in a soil that's lacking bacteria...but have you ever had your soil tested? If not why not have a complete tea to benefit it? Bacteria isn't the only thing you should worry about. Honestly nematodes are probably the most underrated part of soil...because let's be honest getting fungi and bacteria are easy easy easy! My only thing....complex teas. Which without a firm understanding of soil science molasses isn't going to brew complex teas. It's going to brew bacteria heavy teas... anaerobic or not...bacteria heavy.
 
CaliRooted

CaliRooted

1,536
263
I haven't scoped or tested my soil in years. As far as the brewing I'm doing it pretty blind not be able to scope. From previous experience I can say this tea is extremely alive, you'll find different results with different brewing times 24, 36hrs and so on. Yeah I agree bacteria is abundant, I actually try to go for a more balanced tea through veg and flower. I dont use molasses past halfway through due to me adding molasses when I water.
 
jipp

jipp

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Just mix with water for that though, not in a brewed tea!
so, what would a redneck like my self use with my micros/tea to supplement molasses for tea? i let them chill for 48 hours and use.

keep it simple yo!
interesting topic.. first time iv seen it talked about in a logical manor,most times it just someone saying its bro science, with no data to back up there arguments..
 

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