Sugar leaves always curl upwards

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7munkee

7munkee

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I don't know if this is health problem or if it because of the trichomes, but the sugar leaves on my buds always start to curl upwards on the edges about midway through flower. Only the frosty ones though. The color is nice and they seem healthy other than that.. Is this a problem?

Sugar leaves always curl upwards



I did have a week of side lighting running at about 25 watts until I started to get a little leaf burn on the fan leaves.
 
7munkee

7munkee

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I just noticed this one down deep in the canopy. It looks the same way except this one has burnt edges.
IMG 20240413 152252
 
D

DougV

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What’s your temps in there? If there is nothing on the underside, leaves tend to curl to preserve moisture. Can be too hot, too little water, or really low humidity.

Also look at the very outside tip of your leaves. See the yellow tips? That tends to be an early sign of too much fertilizer. The existing damage will not heal, but also will not hurt anything, but it can get worse if not corrected.

Doug
 
7munkee

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It's not temps...it stays a relatively mild 78 degrees. This is only the sugar leaves on the lower buds. This is the second time I have grown this and it did the same thing the first time. It is an organic grow and the burnt tips are only on the one bud deep in the canopy. The curls are on every single lower bud.

Would the trichomes do this? I have grow out dozens of plants and the only other one I seen this on is a super frosty Banana Daddy I got from Ethos a few years ago.
IMG 20240413 152317
 
7munkee

7munkee

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The plant is happy, I have no clue why the sugar leaves cup up like that. I'm not sure it's even a bad thing. I would just like to know what causes it.
IMG 20240422 170657
 
LoveGrowingIt

LoveGrowingIt

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Would the trichomes do this?
I've never heard of them causing leaf curling.

The plant is happy, I have no clue why the sugar leaves cup up like that. I'm not sure it's even a bad thing. I would just like to know what causes it.
My understanding is the curl results when the stomata on the underside of the leaves open wide. This increases the surface area of the bottom of the leaves, pushing them into a curl. It happens when the temperature is high, the humidity is low or both. The plant then transpires more to cool or moisten its leaves. A high transpiration rate isn't necessarily bad, though, because it can increase the growth rate of the plant. It's only likely to be a problem when excessive. This relates to vapor pressure deficit (VPD), which is a measure that combines temperature and humidity. VPD charts are available that provide VPD ranges for the life stages of the plant.
 
7munkee

7munkee

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I've never heard of them causing leaf curling.


My understanding is the curl results when the stomata on the underside of the leaves open wide. This increases the surface area of the bottom of the leaves, pushing them into a curl. It happens when the temperature is high, the humidity is low or both. The plant then transpires more to cool or moisten its leaves. A high transpiration rate isn't necessarily bad, though, because it can increase the growth rate of the plant. It's only likely to be a problem when excessive. This relates to vapor pressure deficit (VPD), which is a measure that combines temperature and humidity. VPD charts are available that provide VPD ranges for the life stages of the plant.

I've never heard of them causing leaf curling.


My understanding is the curl results when the stomata on the underside of the leaves open wide. This increases the surface area of the bottom of the leaves, pushing them into a curl. It happens when the temperature is high, the humidity is low or both. The plant then transpires more to cool or moisten its leaves. A high transpiration rate isn't necessarily bad, though, because it can increase the growth rate of the plant. It's only likely to be a problem when excessive. This relates to vapor pressure deficit (VPD), which is a measure that combines temperature and humidity. VPD charts are available that provide VPD ranges for the life stages of the plant.
Yeah, I track my vpd. I've been in range the whole grow and my temps don't go above 80...ever.

I was running 30 watts of side lighting for a week at the peak of week 5, but no more than 350 par hitting the side.

Stumped
 
LoveGrowingIt

LoveGrowingIt

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I have two plants of the same strain in the same 2x4 tent and one of them was having trouble with leaf tips dying until I realized it was next to an intake vent and the humidifier was on the other side of the tent. That meant the plant with the problem was getting dry air from outside the tent, while the other plant was getting most of the humidity. I moved the humidifier and the plant improved.
 
7munkee

7munkee

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I dont have one. My tent stays open all day because I am always in the room. The ambient co2 is close to 1,000 this way. I close it up at night, of course.
 
Thatoneguyyouknow_

Thatoneguyyouknow_

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I've never heard of them causing leaf curling.


My understanding is the curl results when the stomata on the underside of the leaves open wide. This increases the surface area of the bottom of the leaves, pushing them into a curl. It happens when the temperature is high, the humidity is low or both. The plant then transpires more to cool or moisten its leaves. A high transpiration rate isn't necessarily bad, though, because it can increase the growth rate of the plant. It's only likely to be a problem when excessive. This relates to vapor pressure deficit (VPD), which is a measure that combines temperature and humidity. VPD charts are available that provide VPD ranges for the life stages of the plant.

The plant is happy, I have no clue why the sugar leaves cup up like that. I'm not sure it's even a bad thing. I would just like to know what causes it.View attachment 2155510



Trichomes on sugar leaves when, ill say standing room only, before a sugar leaf finishes growing can absolutely by the time its actually done growing cause the edges of the leaves to go a bit wavy and turn upward, and a lot of this does look like that. Tends to happen on plants with more, larger resin heads (indica dominant plants) that have been getting just a wee bit too much N in their mix (Slight N toxicity causes the dark, sometimes shiny, curled fan leaves he has on the plant as well as hardening the individual trichs/resin heads).

Not being a contrarian, just adding info i promise lol.


you do usually have some other things present along side the heat stress symptoms that i dont see going on here. Aside from that one bud site, but that already is kind of weird considering there is material just fine closer to the light. Youll also usually see bleaching on buds this far into flower before heat stress and curling leaves, or at least both together. If the entire environment was too warm it wouldn't be a localized issue. Looks like maybe some slight bleaching, but again, there is closer material doing just fine not even showing signs of heat stress.

You are indeed correct about the curl resulting from too much heat and the stomata opening. And how this creates an upward curl to the leaf edges though.


My advice, if temps light height and humidity are totally under control, would be back off on the feed a little bit, or even just the levels of N if its a multi part feed. if you grow this plant again as a clone, or if its a stabilized genetic youll come back to again, i would jot down that one likes just a touch less N then you are giving it right now. But as it sits is nothing to really worry about. As the issue is expressing itself though, i wouldn't think it to be heat stress.

Those tiny brown tips on the leaves aren't necessarily indicative of generalized over feeding at that level either per se. On this plant its probably leaning that way. But some plants do just have tiny brown tips on their leaf fingers later into flower regardless how you grow them or with what.

I also attached a picture of a purple cookies pheno i had that would curl its sugar leaf edges, but ONLY where there were trichomes and purple both. Wouldn't do it on the green leaf. No clue lol. She just curled the edges of her sugar leaves in some form or another somewhere on the plant every grow, not the best pic to show it, but i dont have many pics of her anymore these days. Sometimes her sugar leaves would twist in straight up spirals sticking out of the buds. Sometimes her sugar leaves would do exactly like the OP plant if i had just a little too much N going on in late flower. Never caused yeild or quality problems. I thought it was kinda cool looking.
 
261670775 201904148799011 336271355503814914 n
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7munkee

7munkee

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Its in an Earthbox with Coots mix. I'm married to this as is. Water only although I DID give it fulvic acid the night I flipped to flower. And 2 Tblsp of Seabird Guano 0-11-0 2 weeks before.

Ive used this same recipe for a few years now and this is only the second time I've seen this. The first was on Banana Daddy from Ethos. It was super frosty.
 
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