Sulfur As A Terpene Enhancer

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crimsonecho

crimsonecho

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Dude, I was roasting egg shells for my worms 20 years ago...... I found adding vinegar to break down the shells creates too acidic of an input for my worms, or cannabis for that matter. I found grinding the egg shells in a grinder into a fine dust, and applying that is far more effective. Let the microbes break the egg shell down, and not the acidic vinegar. On top of that, I add 6 egg shells a day to my 1 yard of worm bins I keep in the garage during the winter. When those castings are done, I still add a butt tone of calciums and P. If you are trying to grow a plant with egg shell inputs, your plants will be very hungry.

Can you explain how "By using enzymes, microbes, etc we are breaking down the nutrition inside of plants making some readily available." I always though when growing organically, we allow microbes to break down organic food and the root exudates pull that raw form up as nutrients. How are you breaking down nutrients "inside" the plant?

Those books I recommended talk all about how nutrients are taken up by plants, and what the ideal base saturation levels are in the soil. I think it might really help out. Wish you luck.



I never said anything was useless. I was genuinely asking if any of those techniques could be applied to a large garden, and the answer was clearly no. Unless you live on a banana farm....... The concept however is what all organic gardeners do, is utilize organic inputs from local farms. Just no banana farms here. Without a banana farm, I am trying to imagine how this works...... You go down to Safeway and buy a pallet of banana's? How much does that cost?

I clearly said I don't add ionic fertilizers, why would you accuse me of doing so?

Liquid bone meal? Yea, that is fairly soluble and a great product. Still not even close to the boost that Monopotassium phosphate adds. I love bone meal, and add about 20# per yard every year. I add mine in the fall so it's broken down by spring. Cause I know how long that stuff takes to break down, years. How big does that bottle have to be to soak the bone meal? I have almost a thousand yards I ammend, at 20+ lbs per yard we are talking 20,000 lbs of bone meal. Better get a bigger bottle, lol. To reach 80+% base saturation, bone meal is one of my main calcium's.

You guys seem to be preaching to the choir. I am an organic grower, with many organic tricks. My only point I was making is organics are very hard to produce the same yields as a grow with chemical boots given at critical points of influence. Need further evidence? Go read a giant pumpkin growing book. Those guys have really set the path. Just trying to share what I believe, and trying to not putting anybody else down in the process.

All of these techniques can be applied on a bigger scale. Now i think you are not differentiating between what is inconvenient and what is impossible. Clearly possible to do all of these in the manner you proposed. You know buying shit ton of banana and eating them all so you can ferment the peels. Not very feasible. But it doesn’t mean they don’t work. You may also live near or have a connection with a food processing company and you can get the banana peels from them or a banana farmer who could sell you all his sub-par bananas for very cheap etc etc. you can find a way to make it work is my point.

I was ranting on another thread about just this. I’m not a commercial grower and i’ll never produce other than for myself, so i can do these ferments and peels of 10 bananas can sustain me thru a years worth of grows. There are many people who grow for themselves and these techniques can be easily applied by them. For a commercial scale, you have to go local. You have to make best whats around you. So? How does that worth having an argument about. Technique works, you just don’t utilize it because economically its not feasible to you. Ok, i can accept that and you should accept that this is a great way to produce zero waste while getting a great fertilizer for your plants in every scale. You’re missing the fact that bananas are not the only solution, potato skin, cucumber skin and grapefruit skin are all viable options for a potassium boost. I’m sure at least one of them could be sourced if you wanted to but again that defeats the purpose natural farming a little bit.

Well monopotassium phosphate is an ionic fertilizer. It breaks up into ions when mixed with water. If you’re adding monopotassium phosphate you are adding ionic fertilizers. If not, why are you trying to sell us on it or let me better rephrase, why are putting down the organic alternatives which are widely used in every scale. With giant pumpkins, genetics play a role too. Yeah maybe it’ll produce a bit more than organics when you use ionic, havent tried it but again commercial problems. I stick to organics and get a gram less per 20 maybe. No biggie. I’ve seen charred to shit plants because of too much pk. My banana peel ferment doesn’t do that.
 
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dextr0

dextr0

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Dude, I was roasting egg shells for my worms 20 years ago...... I found adding vinegar to break down the shells creates too acidic of an input for my worms, or cannabis for that matter. I found grinding the egg shells in a grinder into a fine dust, and applying that is far more effective. Let the microbes break the egg shell down, and not the acidic vinegar. On top of that, I add 6 egg shells a day to my 1 yard of worm bins I keep in the garage during the winter. When those castings are done, I still add a butt tone of calciums and P. If you are trying to grow a plant with egg shell inputs, your plants will be very hungry.

Can you explain how "By using enzymes, microbes, etc we are breaking down the nutrition inside of plants making some readily available." I always though when growing organically, we allow microbes to break down organic food and the root exudates pull that raw form up as nutrients. How are you breaking down nutrients "inside" the plant?

Those books I recommended talk all about how nutrients are taken up by plants, and what the ideal base saturation levels are in the soil. I think it might really help out. Wish you luck.



I never said anything was useless. I was genuinely asking if any of those techniques could be applied to a large garden, and the answer was clearly no. Unless you live on a banana farm....... The concept however is what all organic gardeners do, is utilize organic inputs from local farms. Just no banana farms here. Without a banana farm, I am trying to imagine how this works...... You go down to Safeway and buy a pallet of banana's? How much does that cost?

I clearly said I don't add ionic fertilizers, why would you accuse me of doing so?

Liquid bone meal? Yea, that is fairly soluble and a great product. Still not even close to the boost that Monopotassium phosphate adds. I love bone meal, and add about 20# per yard every year. I add mine in the fall so it's broken down by spring. Cause I know how long that stuff takes to break down, years. How big does that bottle have to be to soak the bone meal? I have almost a thousand yards I ammend, at 20+ lbs per yard we are talking 20,000 lbs of bone meal. Better get a bigger bottle, lol. To reach 80+% base saturation, bone meal is one of my main calcium's.

You guys seem to be preaching to the choir. I am an organic grower, with many organic tricks. My only point I was making is organics are very hard to produce the same yields as a grow with chemical boots given at critical points of influence. Need further evidence? Go read a giant pumpkin growing book. Those guys have really set the path. Just trying to share what I believe, and trying to not putting anybody else down in the process.

Hey man I still think you have some misunderstandings of what fpe does. And the fact that there are many different fpe for different aspects of growing.
When I say break down matter I mean we are breaking down ingredients using enzymes, microbes, acids etc. So that when I water it’s partially or fully available to the plants roots to uptake...and yes some is still broke down by soil microbes still. But as we know this takes time. We by pass that by using fpe which are readily available.

Water soluble calcium from eggshells would be but one of the fpe I use for a grow. Others made from different ingredients are used for other parts of the grow. So my plants would not be hungry because I feed them...or my soil can feed them. I like amended soil. There’s definitely more than one trick to the trade as you know.

I really would think you would know this but some of your answers allude to the opposite so I thought I’d lay that little bit of what I know down.

I could personally care less what one uses in their own grow. And not trying to sell anything. I just wanted you and others who may be lurking to know that you can grow however you want if you know how on whatever scale. Those links show that happening now.
 
Dr.stickerdick

Dr.stickerdick

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Good to see you posting dextro,. I have had the FPE Thread in my favorites for easily five years, awesome results. Every connoisseur should try them. Peace brother
 
dextr0

dextr0

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Good to see you posting dextro,. I have had the FPE Thread in my favorites for easily five years, awesome results. Every connoisseur should try them. Peace brother
Thanx man glad to be around and still able to talk on some of my favorite subjects. Also glad to hear people got something from the threads we did long ago.
 
H

hawkman

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When it comes down to the finished product, what do you think will put out a better product in the end...Organic or synthetic? Or a combo of both?...Then of course the next question would be, what and when to introduce them?
per organic but like to add one additive like that *silver bullet, Mamnoth or Soil Balance) mamanth one uses thru grow but silver bullet best to use in flower up to the end of week 4 ( they say you can use in veg but really don't see why)
 
dextr0

dextr0

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Hawkman sorry bout the derail on the thread good question. I found myself wondering the same a long time ago when researching terpenes in general.
But in specific I was looking into thiols.

Here are a few things to look into that I did find on increasing terpenes and secondary metabolites in general.

Anything that will cause SAR to kick in. You can find products with chitosan/chitin or make them yourself. I believe even insect frass can get same response. Might look that up. The plant will throw off new smells and produce more trichomes to try and protect itself from what was t believes to be predators.

UVB. I’ve read and posted countless articles speaking of uvb increasing trichome production as they protect the plant from the uvb. In some plants as much as 200 or 300%.
In cannabis the numbers have been lower but still any improvement is nice to me. Pecauations must be made though as over exposure is more harmful then helpful. Humans can be harmed by uvb too. So safety first.

Last thing was companion planting itself. I seem to remember rosemary increasing aroma of flowers sourounding it.

Just some stuff I was thinking about.
 
Bulldog420

Bulldog420

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Hey man I still think you have some misunderstandings of what fpe does. And the fact that there are many different fpe for different aspects of growing.
When I say break down matter I mean we are breaking down ingredients using enzymes, microbes, acids etc. So that when I water it’s partially or fully available to the plants roots to uptake...and yes some is still broke down by soil microbes still. But as we know this takes time. We by pass that by using fpe which are readily available.

Water soluble calcium from eggshells would be but one of the fpe I use for a grow. Others made from different ingredients are used for other parts of the grow. So my plants would not be hungry because I feed them...or my soil can feed them. I like amended soil. There’s definitely more than one trick to the trade as you know.

I really would think you would know this but some of your answers allude to the opposite so I thought I’d lay that little bit of what I know down.

I could personally care less what one uses in their own grow. And not trying to sell anything. I just wanted you and others who may be lurking to know that you can grow however you want if you know how on whatever scale. Those links show that happening now.

I have no idea how I came across as somebody that doesn't like FPE in this conversation...... This started out as how to get an organic product with high levels of readily available P. No idea how we got so far off track.

FPE Rules and bulldog drools.
 
dextr0

dextr0

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I have no idea how I came across as somebody that doesn't like FPE in this conversation...... This started out as how to get an organic product with high levels of readily available P. No idea how we got so far off track.

FPE Rules and bulldog drools.

Lol Bulldog can rule too man...I’m not trying to down talk or anything. I just honestly figured you didn’t know what fpe we’re doing because of a question you asked.

Dextr0s just old.
 
Sharty1

Sharty1

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Thanks, just a curious guy here. Never claim to know everything.

About chemical nutes, well you can finish them or gift them to someone. You can always use them on non edible plants too, like in your garden. Chemicals are not useless because i prefer not use them. Plants will love it nearly just as much. With nutes we cram down our cannabis’ neck in a season, we can sustain a flower garden for a long time.
Oh yea, my outdoor plants love the flush water from my little hydro setup. Not as much as when I clean the aquarium, but waste not, want not.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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Anecdotal... and not that I recommend this, but I ran my sulphur burner all the way to week 7 of flower on a 9 week strain once because of nasty PM that wouldn't go away. 2 hr burn once per week. That crop was noticeably more flavorful and stinky than usual. In a good way, and no smell or taste of sulphur.
 
BillFarthing

BillFarthing

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You can get organic fulvic acid and potassium sulfate for a Heavy 16 Finish/Terpinator/Sugaree copy. It's 1 tsp. of 69% FA and 1 tsp. of SOP for 5 gallons of solution.
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

808
93
Actually my personal flower boost has more things to it.

1. When i switch to 12/12, a good fungal dominant tea applied to the soil.

2. I water with molasses every or every other watering depending on the response (from early on). 1 tbs per gallon.

3. 4 weeks before harvest, banana fpe comes into play and gets cut out 2 weeks prior to harvest. 5-10ml per gallon weekly. At this point molasses leaves the scene.

4. Until 2 weeks prior to harvest, i give 1 tsp per gallon epsom every other week if not needed more visibly.

5. They are getting em1 bi-weekly. Which has sulfur fixing bacteria in it among many other microbes.

But i’m already working with a heavily ammended mix. Like most plants would burn, i don’t know how my gals are ok in it :)

I don’t use powdered or micronized sulphur. I don’t think you need much in that form when doing organic. You’re supplementing so much plant material to the soil (for example like neem has sulphur in abundance) that you don’t need to add to much unless plant shows deficiencies.

If you want to mix molasses and epsom and use this as a soil drench thats ok too. 1tbs molasses and 1tsp epsom per gallon is a good mix imo. So that makes a ratio of 3 to 1. You can mix 3 parts of molasses with 1 part of epsom and have a mix ready but i don’t see the point as you would lose the ability to use them on their own.
Super appreciate your personal recipe, bud.

And OT - I was trolled on IG by Dan Harmon =D
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Self-Proclaimed Don Quixote
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Super appreciate your personal recipe, bud.

And OT - I was trolled on IG by Dan Harmon =D

Its good that you find it helpful man. Something like this actually adds plenty of sulfur but again a good living soil has plenty of sulfur in it already. The key is that the plant will tell you if it needs anything and being a little lazy when doing organics is better. In time i got lazier and now my buds are bigger and better than before. 😃
 
Funkadelic

Funkadelic

808
93
Hawkman sorry bout the derail on the thread good question. I found myself wondering the same a long time ago when researching terpenes in general.
But in specific I was looking into thiols.

Here are a few things to look into that I did find on increasing terpenes and secondary metabolites in general.

Anything that will cause SAR to kick in. You can find products with chitosan/chitin or make them yourself. I believe even insect frass can get same response. Might look that up. The plant will throw off new smells and produce more trichomes to try and protect itself from what was t believes to be predators.

UVB. I’ve read and posted countless articles speaking of uvb increasing trichome production as they protect the plant from the uvb. In some plants as much as 200 or 300%.
In cannabis the numbers have been lower but still any improvement is nice to me. Pecauations must be made though as over exposure is more harmful then helpful. Humans can be harmed by uvb too. So safety first.

Last thing was companion planting itself. I seem to remember rosemary increasing aroma of flowers sourounding it.

Just some stuff I was thinking about.
Arthropod exoskeletons = full of win. I've always wanted to gently dabble with UVB to kill bugs, mildew spores, and boost THC but haven't found the right safe tested way to do it. Are there any recommended suppllemental lights people like yet?
@Avrilb
 
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