t5 micro cab continued

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Dodge

Dodge

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I decided to add two more strips to ensure enough light for the entire process. Each strip has 3700 lumens. There are now five strips with two lamps each installed, so total lumens = 18,500. The bulbs have a nice soft color 3000k. Not sure how much of this light is actually PAR light, but they seem to love it. Just started to LST and it seems to be working fine. Stay tuned... Tried to upload pics but isn't allowing me yet.

EDIT: I was uploading too many at once... pics work fine.
 
Dodge

Dodge

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Photo Update. These photos show the original build an the upgrade. The plants love this light, I swear. LST is working well. At first I was clueless but I get it now. Once the plants respond to the movement and position themselves this technique reveals itself. I totally understand the LST concept at this point. I don't know which ones are male or female. I am going to LST the lot until the little bushy monsters look like some producers. I guess you only know which ones are ladies after the flip and you gotta LST all of em.

EDIT: I found a graph of the photometrics of the Phillips F21T5/830 ALTO Bulb I'm running. This is from the Phillips website.
 
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Dodge

Dodge

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I am using coat hanger and bending them into "U" shapes and the staking the main stalk to the soil. The coat hangers have a coating on them. I hope they metal from the coat hanger does not cause some kind of contamination of the soil. Hell, there will be like ten stakes in each pot when I'm done. I am going to look for some kind of wood or plastic to use to stake the plant down. Wood or plastic won't leach into the soil. If it was not for this forum I never would've learned about LST. In my novice opinion all MICRO GROWS MUST LST. It allows you to eliminate a foot to 18 inches of plant height, while maximizing vegetative growth. Oh, the other thing I realized is that I should have planted my seeds on the side of the pot rather than the center of the pot. If I had planted the seeds on the side of the pot the whole "wrapping the plant around the pot" process would have been a little easier.
 
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giantsfan24

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I am using coat hanger and bending them into "U" shapes and the staking the main stalk to the soil. The coat hangers have a coating on them. I hope they metal from the coat hanger does not cause some kind of contamination of the soil. Hell, there will be like ten stakes in each pot when I'm done. I am going to look for some kind of wood or plastic to use to stake the plant down. Wood or plastic won't leach into the soil. If it was not for this forum I never would've learned about LST. In my novice opinion all MICRO GROWS MUST LST. It allows you to eliminate a foot to 18 inches of plant height, while maximizing vegetative growth. Oh, the other thing I realized is that I should have planted my seeds on the side of the pot rather than the center of the pot. If I had planted the seeds on the side of the pot the whole "wrapping the plant around the pot" process would have been a little easier.

Mine are LST'd and you're right...for a grow with minimal height, LST'ing is the way to go.

I like the fluoro's for side lighting..I've got an email into my hydro guy for a price on 2 hydrofarm 4 bulb fixtures in addition to the 400w HID in my box...

On your bulbs...wouldn't you want something cooler like a 6500K bulbs in your side lighting? Unless you've got that in your top lighting already and are providing a mixed spectrum, I'd recommend getting some 6500K bulbs in there for veg. Just a thought.

I'm flipping to 12/12 on Friday....:party0044:
 
Day 33   1
Dodge

Dodge

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Giantsfan24,

I am using Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Growers Handbook (third edition) to base this decision on. He claims that plants can grow under the red-amber spectrum for their entire life cycle with no ill effect. He claims to have grown and flowered three plants evenly spaced under two HIDs. One being MH and the other HPS. The least productive was the plant that got mostly MH, the plant that got both came in second and the one grown entirely under HPS was the most productive. Because my goal is to go cheap and use as little power as possible, I must use one bulb for the entire process. The results will be the definitive answer. The 10 t5 lamps in the cab are my only source of light. They are not supplemental. Each lamp is rated at 21w. 21x10= 210w. It's a micro grow, what can I say. We'll see what a little over 200w of t5 can do in 2012.

Your plants look healthy and bushy. You should have no problems filling that cab with dankbud!!
 
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giantsfan24

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Giantsfan24,

I am using Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Growers Handbook (third edition) to base this decision on. He claims that plants can grow under the red-amber spectrum for their entire life cycle with no ill effect. He claims to have grown and flowered three plants evenly spaced under two HIDs. One being MH and the other HPS. The least productive was the plant that got mostly MH, the plant that got both came in second and the one grown entirely under HPS was the most productive. Because my goal is to go cheap and use as little power as possible, I must use one bulb for the entire process. The results will be the definitive answer. The 10 t5 lamps in the cab are my only source of light. They are not supplemental. Each lamp is rated at 21w. 21x10= 210w. It's a micro grow, what can I say. We'll see what a little over 200w of t5 can do in 2012.

Your plants look healthy and bushy. You should have no problems filling that cab with dankbud!!

I've heard that too..there are many growers who go all the way through veg and flower with 3K, 4k or 2700K with good results.

In my grow the difference between 250w and 400w HID has been that I'm 20 days ahead with 400w.

The results of what 200w of fluoro's can do is all over the boards on the internet. I've seen great fluoro grows...I think it has more do to with where the lighting is located..top and sides..that will determine penetration and thus results.

I'm sure you'll do fine! :)
 
BrianDirt

BrianDirt

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I understand that you can grow with the red spec all the way though the grow process, I think it will give you shorter nodes.
The red spec tell the plant it is autum and time to get ready to flower, and the blue spec is like long summer days and lets is grow long and lanky.
So all you would have to do is swap out some bulbs to red or blue spec in your micro depending on the stage.

I am using the two 6500k blue 32 watt each 2ft tubes for the veg room. And using a red spec hps 150&70 (220)wtts in flower and have 200 watts of 2700k cfl red spec for back up when needed (over 400 wtts of red spc).
 
Dodge

Dodge

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Day 27

Greetings,

Just a little update on the micro. I stated that I wasn't sure what day I was on. I wrote the date the seeds were planted on a piece of tape and stuck it on the pots. Today is the 27th day of my humble operation. I am satisfied with the progress. The initial phase of this project was done with just 146 watts (6x21w) of T5. I'm up to a mind blowing 210 watts of t5, better watch out! Not really, but seriously, It is working well. Growth is not record breaking, but enough to notice on a daily basis. After learning the following information about inverse square law I realized I was selling myself short.

Wikipedia:
"According to the inverse square law, the intensity of light radiating from a point source (in this case a bulb) is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source. So if an object is twice as far away, it receives only 1/4 the light."

In my case, half the distance translates to just under 18 inches. By simply placing unused pots under the plants upside down, I cut the distance from the light by half. It's a no brainer, but something I totally overlooked. Here are a few photos. I discovered that a few minor adjustments on the camera settings take the amber glow right out of the picture. The first three are the La Diva auto and the fourth is a brick baby having been LST'd :
 
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BrianDirt

BrianDirt

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Looks good, keepem as close to the light without burning and your good. Take your watts and divide by your square feet. 220 / 4 = 55 watts a square foot, at a foot away, including the diminished light due to distance you will get less watts passed the foot mark.
 
Dodge

Dodge

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Good math. Your right about the light. Closer the better. The numbers on the watts per square square feet aint horrible. Good eye buddy.
 
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CarloMarx

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Wow man. Great looking plants and great looking setup. I think I'll pull up a chair :nerd
 
Dodge

Dodge

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Day 35

Whattup,

Things are growing well. I have been training these plants and have created little monsters. They look like little freaks. Another week and they will have filled out the pots completely. The main stem has been worked around the pots and the side branches are really starting to shoot up. I am planning on flipping in the next week or so. I really think the biggest one is a male, but I don't know yet. Nothing about the setup has changed, hell the only change I'm gonna make in this whole operation is the length of day. The La Diva auto has really started to take off. Here are some photos.
 
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Dodge

Dodge

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Day 37

Hey,

Just wanted to show a few more pics of how the plants have been trained. First time doing it so it's a little funky. I'm glad I had the chance to learn some basic techniques. I feel like I would have quickly run out of space otherwise. Can't wait to flower these suckers and see who's who. Side are branches coming up everywhere. The second plant is doubled back on itself.
 
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BrianDirt

BrianDirt

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Nice bends in there, I am allways a little worried when doing it. Hope there are girls.
 
Dodge

Dodge

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Nice bends in there, I am allways a little worried when doing it. Hope there are girls.

I know that excessive stressing can cause more more males. Good thing is it didn't happen all at once. I started training them when they were like half a foot tall or less. One of the plants is feminized Tangerine Dream (Barney's Farm). The other two are brick babies. The two brick babies were planted at the same time. One is like twice as big as the other and I think it is male... I dunno, if they both turn male and the fem seed goes hermie, then I will know that I was too rough with the plants, but I really think they are fine. It took more than a month to get them where they are now. We shall see.
 
Dodge

Dodge

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Day 41 The Flip (High Hopes)

Hey

Last night was the first long night. This is my first flip. I am excited. Hopefully one of the brick babies will be female. I wonder how long I am gonna have to ID and remove the males? I hope that I am able to separate them before they become "baby daddies." According to all that I have read I will have about two weeks to find the males. I have also been told that the males usually show up a little sooner than females. This helps them to be culled without incident. If your reading this and you know your sh*t, "how long do I have to get rid of males?" It sounds so easy in the books, but I have already seen guys get seeds even though It seemed like they tried hard to find and separate males.
Even in the veg phase, this is a rewarding experience. Totally learned a few ways to grow compact, bushy plants. They started to look like monsters but have started to fill out the pots and spread out a bit. Learned that every rookie garden should have an autofem. It gives you something to watch while your waiting and worrying for the rest. Also watching the auto start to bloom gives you an exact idea of what to look for when you start sexing the others. I have been doing photo updates on Sunday so more pics then. Have a good one.
 
Smoking Gun

Smoking Gun

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Dodge, you have a very nice grow going for you. Those are some very bushy plants. Don't worry about stress determining your plants sex, the LST isn't going to force that change, it is called LOW stress training for a reason. You need extreme stress, like way too much heat, light, absolute lack of water, things like that to force sex change. You will have at least 2 weeks to cull your male(s), but since male flowers do show before female flowers you will actually have almost 4 weeks to remove males. However the sooner you can identify them and cull them the better.

Now if I may I have a few suggestions for the future. First I would change your lighting. T-5 lights are perfectly fine fro growing, but as far as I can tell those are the standard T-5 shop lights from home depot. Those lights do not have the proper penetration (intensity) to grow top quality plants. Look into horticultural High Output T-5 lights, they will do you much better. I would also mix up my color spectrum. Having some more bluish light in there will only help your plants growth, it creates a more well rounded color spectrum for your plants to absorb and mimics a more natural light. As was said above, the blue spectrum mimics the summer sun and promotes the health of the vegetative growth of the plant, and the red mimics the fall sun which promotes flowering. But take notice that when you walk outside in the fall or winter the light around you is not nearly as red as your lights are. So adding a bit of blueish light will only keep the light spectrum in your box closer to the spectrum of natural light. I know what Ed's book said, but I don't really care.

That actually leads me to another point, drop Ed's book and advice. I would rather not get into specifics on the board about why (if you would like to know why shoot me a PM). I would look into Mel Frank's books or Jorge Cervantes' books and DVD's; I think those would serve you much better. Also if you are up for a bit of advanced reading there is Robert Connell Clarke's Marijuana Botany.

One last thing I will suggest is trimming some of your growth. You have a lot of growth in a small space. T-5 lights only have about 6 inches of penetration at best, so you want all of your important growth at the top of the canopy. If you trim the excess bottom branches your plants will not be wasting energy on trying to make those bottom branches grow. Your top growth will be healthier and give you better final results. Also the crowding of branches and leaves covers a lot of the growth you want to catch up with the top of your plants and if they are covered and not receiving light they will not grow efficiently.

Also what nutrients are you using?

I hope this helps some. I am looking forward to seeing what this grow produces and your future progress.
 
OctoberDee

OctoberDee

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ˆˆˆˆAgreed for the most part even though I love Ed (I'd like to know your qualms with Mr. Rosenthal). Go marijuana Botany! Talk about learning some shit. The males should look obvious first. They'll grow little balls unlike the one plant you have with all the white hairs (that plant is in full flower already). Your typical male plant has little comma looking pre-flowers(,). They soon swell and start to look like single grapes growing out of the nodes, then they turn into male flower buds. At this point they are ready to drop pollen and will seed your crop. Doing quite well though, Kudos!
 
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