Teach me to grow...

[xxedgexx]

I'm not quite sure what to do...yeah, I'm kind of starting to get impatient. I did probably all of the things you're not supposed to do as a new grower. One, I spent a great deal of money. I have a set up that if put in the hands of someone who actually knew what they were doing could turn out some great bud. Well, I don't seem to be that person.

What does it take to find someone you can trust to help you along these crucial first steps? I feel as if some of these things flow in the direction of the great magnet, which is to say, I really don't know what's going wrong with my plants most of the time. When things go bad, it looks like it could be a number of things. I begin to eliminate to the best of my ability using forums and a stack of books. Sometimes things look like they're coming back and then bam, something else happens and things look like they're taking a turn for the worst again.

I started with hydro, thinking for indoor grows, it would be less of a hassle then dealing with dirt. This is probably a very wrong assumption to make. It seems hydro maintenance is very time consuming. I'm trying to do this by myself and I unfortunately have a real job to contend with as well. There's no way I could change my res three time a week like some seem to suggest.

I'm trying to keep the spirits up, but I feel without some real guidance from an experienced grower, I'm going to end up chalking this up on the huge waste of money pile. I'm willing to admit that I just can't do this or that I don't have the time or patience to pull this off in any kind of meaningful way.

I'd like to get some help. I live in southern california. I am a medicinal patient with two patients, myself and another, living in the grow space.

I wanted to get into this to one, avoid the insane prices here and two, to learn something new that is at the very least sustaining myself. I'm a computer geek, so for some reason I thought hydro would make it more interesting...

I'm sure this is a bad idea but perhaps someone would be willing to start an online conversation and take it from there. If you're a grower with no place to grow, this could be good for both of us.

Thanks

 

[Guano]

Get a few soil grows under you're belt until you understand each phase of growing & learn from your mistakes.Once you're comfortable dabble in simple hydroponics & progress at your own pace.
This is from the organic section of the website if you're interested:

Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

Or, if you use Pro Mix or Sunshine Mix...

Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix or whatever
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.


Now, to any of the above soiless mixes you can use any one of the following nutrient recipes for a great organic grow...


RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.

Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.


RECIPE #2
If you want to use guano in your soil mix...
Dry guano mix
1/3C hi N guano per gallon
1/2C hi Phos guano per gallon
1TBS Jersey greensand per gallon
1TBS Kelp meal per gallon


RECIPE #3 (My favorite)
If you want to use guano tea and kelp...

Guano Tea and Kelp:

Seedlings less than 1 month old nute tea mix-
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
1-cup earthworm castings/5 gallons of water every 3rd watering

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
@ 1-cup mix/5 gallons of water every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
5 tbs. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
@ 2 cups/5 gallons of water EVERY watering.
You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.



RECIPE #4
3LB's Used Soiless Mix Method
40 gallons used soil
4 cups alfalfa meal
4 cups bone meal
4 cups kelp meal
4 cups powdered dolomite lime
30 pound bag of earthworm castings . . .
That’s the basic recipe . . .
However we also like to use
4 cups of Greensand
4 cups of Rock Phosphate
4 cups of diatomaceous earth


RECIPE #5
Fish and Seaweed

For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful 0-0-1 Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O

For flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O



RECIPE #6
And finally Pure Blend Pro...
Pure Blend Pro veg formula for hydro/soil and Pure Blend Pro flower formula for Soil. Simply use as directed on the label. It's a stand-alone fertilizer. That means, everything you need is already in there so don't let the guy at the hydro store try to sell you something more.

Enjoy.

 

[xxedgexx]

Right now i'm using the Botanicare line. I'm very curious about using organic material. Is it true that it's more difficult to burn your plants with organic nutrients?

Are all these ingredients available at my local hydro store? Bat Guano is something I've seen but there's a lot on this list that doesn't look familiar.

thanks!

 

[Guano]

Right now i'm using the Botanicare line. I'm very curious about using organic material. Is it true that it's more difficult to burn your plants with organic nutrients?

Yes more difficult but possible,organics is more forgiving.

Are all these ingredients available at my local hydro store? Bat Guano is something I've seen but there's a lot on this list that doesn't look familiar.

thanks!

Let us know what you're having trouble finding & we'll tell you where to look.

 

[Green81]

Guano given you some great info there and all of it valid and proper, However, if you really know nothing about growing plants , any plant, just start with a basic; general purpose compost bought from your local d i y store.

If starting from seed use small 1/2 lite pots. Germinate the seeds pop them in the pots with compost and stick them under your lights 18 hours on, 6 hours off. Soil is much more forgiving than hydro.

YOur plants should be more than happy in basic compost, as you get more experience you can then change-up your soil configuration.. Just get a couple of grows under your belt.:nod

 

[thc4sim]

I find there is nothing easier than using Canna Coco with there full nute range.
Its pretty hard to go wrong with it to be honest..

As long as you have air in and out of the grow area dont have your light too close and check your PH and EC of your nutes your giving to the plants
I hand water every 2-3 days and mix my nutes by hand..

are you in the UK or US or somewhere else?

then i recon you should be up and running!! :flower:flower:flower:flower:flower:flower

 

[Core]

just buy a good soil prebagged if you start out...like promix;foxfarm light;plagron;canna soil/coco or something in that area ...then it is like thc4 is saying..Notthing to it realy....you just have to keep things simple.....and keep an eye on the issues he stated above...nutes/waterings ;ph;air;temps and light ....you just gotte sort out witch levels to use and howmuch ;)

 

[monkey5]

thc4, he said he is in so.cali..... so USA !! Said he is a med pat./provider... I do believe !! monkey5

 

[anthony6969]

go with soil, this is my first grow and there has been no trouble up until a few days ago when i had to start feeding them nutes, germed the seeds, put them into half of a plastic bottle in cheap compost, put them under a Compact Flourecent each and just left them to grow watering once a week or whenever they dried out

 

[jadins_journey]

xxedgexx, you have the equipment for hydro but I am afraid you have been given some incorrect information in some regards because reservoirs do not need to be chaned 3x a week. Don't give up on your system, IMHO hydro is the way to grow.

jj

 

[xxedgexx]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I'm in socal.

There is something fundamentally that I'm doing wrong either in my feeding or my environment. Would it be likely that the feeding chart I'm following is just too hot for the strain?

Here's the thread on my veg stage which has a lot of information:



Things started to look better after I basically ran clearex for a day and left my ppm's around 400 - 500, pH around 5.8. After a week of new solid growth, I transplanted to the flower tent.

Here's some details on my flower tent.

12 pot "multiflow" system with 55 gallon res. I've heard this referred to as a "dutch pot" system. It's a bottom feed unit. Here's a link:

http://www.hydroponics.net/images/MultiFlow.jpg

This tent is one of the new SUN HUT 4x8x7 reflective tents. I have a 440 CFM blower on two Radiant 6 hoods with 600watt digital balasts. The lights are currently about 4' from the top of the plants. I have another 440 CFM blower that clears the room running for 15 minutes every 30 minutes.

I have an AC in the tent keeping the room between 75 - 80 lights on and about 68 - 73 lights off. I have a 12" oscillating fan blowing on the plants and a small 6" oscillating fan that I have sitting up top of one of the light hoods. Seems to help to blow around the rising hot air.

I starting using rockwool and moved the rockwool into the buckets surrounding it with hydroton.

This is going on my second week of 12 on 12 off. PPMs right now are around 950 and pH is kept between 5.7 and 6.0.

I am using the full 55 gallons only because I read somewhere that nutrients dilute better with a larger res and that you can go further between tank changes with a larger res. I don't know if this is inaccurate.

I flood the buckets 6 times in a 24 hour period.

I'm using CO2 tank with a regulator. I'm using an inexpensive CO2 sniffer and I bring the CO2 ppm up to 1500 approx 4 - 5 times during 12 on.

I know my CO2 set up could be improved. AC is running during this time and probably sucking the majority of the CO2 out of the exhaust. I was considering purchasing one of those dual exhaust AC's to minimize on the CO2 getting sucked out. Even though the meter show the CO2 rising to the appropriate levels, I'm not sure how long the CO2 has to stay in the room to even be effective.

Nutrients.

I'm following this formula:

20ml/gallon of Pure Blend Pro Bloom
5ml/gallon of Cal-Mag Plus
7ml/gallon of Hydroguard

and the projected PPM is 1200, even though I've added additional water to bring this down to around 950 because it looks like my plants are being burned.

I'm using a Stealth Hydro R/O system with an additional UV filter. The tap water here is really bad. Around 800ppm from the faucet.

I'm using a hepa filter with UV filter inside the tent running 24/7.

I was using GreenCure once a week as a foliar spray, but ceased using this since some on this list felt this was more appropriate for outdoor and could possibly be burning my plants.

Problems I'm seeing is basically stunted grow, thin stems, small leaves, some burning at the edges and tips. They also seem lagged in terms of beginning the flowering stage. My last somewhat successful grow, you could see obvious budding after the first week.

What else am I missing. Anything obviously wrong here? If pictures are helpful, I can post.

thanks for the encouragement. I really would love for this to work out. I just feel like there is something basic I'm doing wrong that's throwing the whole thing off.

 

[ProGroWannabe]

Definitely post up the pics that you have. That will help a great deal.

 

[xxedgexx]

Here's some pictures. Thank you!

 

[ProGroWannabe]

You were right in your previous post. The plants are definitely over-ferted. You should empty your reservior asap and refill it with plain pH'd water.... pH should be 5.5-5.8. Run a full 24hrs at your normal flood/drain schedule, then empty the res. again.

When you mix your next res. of nute solution, start out at half strength---no higher. Run at half strength until you see the new growth turning a really pale green, then increase it just a touch...maybe 10%...when you mix the next reservior.

The damaged growth will not recover. Don't watch the damaged stuff to see changes. The only place to see the changes...positive, or negative, is in the newest growth.

I hope I haven't wasted your time by telling you stuff that you already knew.

 

[Zoolander]

By the looks of the plants maybe even a bit less then half strength .

 

[xxedgexx]

Understood. I'm going to do just that. I guess I feel misdirected by my hydro guy who gave me the feeding schedule. What ppm levels make sense? Also, it seems one thing a lot of people do, which make sense, is to mix the concentrate of nutrients in a smaller body of water, like a 2 gallon container and then add this mixture to the main res to control the ppm level incrementally.

What should I be shooting for in the second week of flowering?

thanks

 

[ProGroWannabe]

Yeah edge...Zoo has seen many more plants than I have for sure.....maybe drop back to 1/4 strength after the flush.

As far as what ppms should be for the 2nd week of flowering....that is VERY strain dependent. Some are heavy feeders, some are light feeders. But one thing is for sure, it's better to error on the "light side" than to overfeed.

Unless you've ran a strain a few times, keep them a bit hungry to start with. Then ramp up in strength very slowly, watching the plants carefully the whole time for signs of burning. It starts at the tips of the leaves, then moves progressively toward the leaf stems. Once you see it beginning on the tips, you've gone as high as you can go with that strain, at that time in it's cycle. I personally think it's better to keep them just a touch hungry the whole time, but that's just me.

 

[drpressure600]

hi kid

i thought that co2 would be to advanced for someone starting off, nice little set up you have, your in good hands here, hope things work out kid . .

 

[poutpup07]

im at the same cross roads you are as i am thinking of switching to hydro but fear there is not enough time in my day to take care of the necessitys...and i like the flavor range that soil brings......keep us posted * woah i missed the pics....dude you are doing ok just do like zoo says and you be a.o.k.
pup

 

[jadins_journey]

Nutrient strength is very strain dependent as well as age dependent as PG stated above. 1200ppm is way strong for the age and size of most MJ strains from what I have learned, for that size of plant I would not go over 700ppm until I had grown it out a couple of harvests. My girls burn at 1000 but thrive at 750.

What's the deal with the white rings that all your buckets sit on? The system is designed for the pots to be level with the control modul. This leaves about 1.5" of nutrient in the botom of the buckets between flood cycles, that little bit of water saved an entire grow once when a pump burned up on me.

jj