*** the fishy page ***

  • Thread starter digdugdank
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
digdugdank

digdugdank

Select Genetics
327
93
"a hungy fish is a healthy fish" i thought this would be a great place for everyone to share there fish pictures and stories( "living breathing fish" sorry chippy guys you can start your own thread) lol. this thread is for fish heads. i just set my 300 gallon tank up in september. its still kinda new and havent had any extra cash for these kind of plants yet!! lol
fish tank.jpg
i guess my other pictures didnt upload ill try for next post, i know we started to post some really awesome pictures of koi ponds on the other thread and im looking for exactly that and more!! heres my humble planted tetra tank, and im going to upload a few pictures of my mantis shrimp, thanks digdug!!
 
justanotherbozo

justanotherbozo

952
143
...you ever heard of Murray Hallam? ...with a 300gallon tank you should let the fish waste feed plants and let the plants filter the fish waste.


[URL='http://www.youtube.com/user/fishandveggies']Murray Hallam Aquaponics
(his YouTube channel)
[/url]

...and here is a short sample, if you're interested in the concept i'd suggest you do a torrent search, his DVD's are available for download and well worth the watch.


peace, bozo
 
digdugdank

digdugdank

Select Genetics
327
93
ive seen other set ups but not like what this guy is doing. i can totally make that work with the pond im building right now. on a smaller scale of course. this 300 gal. is in my living room so the only plants will be the ones inside the tank. i have a 60 gal sump filter underneath and about 2 full 5 gallon buckets of bio balls in the overflow. this glass box is balancing out very nicely. as i add fish i add plants a little at a time. then wait and watch and repeat til happy. another great saying in the fish world is " only bad things happen quickly" and its so true!! and since my woman bought this mantis and some leeroy seeds for me for christmas, i had to name the mantis leeroy!! he is about 4" and very colorful with lots of attitude!! digdug!!
mantis.jpg
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,599
638
AWESOME thread, digdugdank! I don't know I have any pix on my harddrive of my systems, I had them all long before I ever had a computer. I think my ex-husband has a VHS of my last reef tank, where my blue devils had begun breeding. I contacted the folks who used to publish FAMA (you remember Freshwater and Marine Aquarium magazine? I worked with, and lived with for a short time, one of the contributing editors, Bob the Fenner, when I went to work for Petschmo at their corporate HQ & distribution center when they tried to open up a live animal DC) to ask them, "What do I do with blue devil damsels that are breeding?" and they had no idea, no one had ever observed it before, let alone taken an whole clutch through hatching. We were just beginning to see rearing clownfish becoming popular, a la Martin Moe (fucking loved that book).

However! I can point you to a book, should be available on Amazon, that I helped edit. It's called The Natural Marine Aquarium--Reef Invertebrates. I'll have to go through my notes, but the glossary was entirely my creation, and then I was responsible for algae, echinoderms and now I forget what else. I have BUTTLOADS of various fish pix from when I was helping Bob out on wetwebmedia doing the daily FAQs, both answering and working on the web page itself. I betcha it's still all on Frontpage, too.

Did you know that WWM is a Google Whack? And my friend's fish pix are some of the only known photos of fishes described on fishbase.org. :D No buttfish, Bob keeps those pix for himself. D'oh!
...you ever heard of Murray Hallam? ...with a 300gallon tank you should let the fish waste feed plants and let the plants filter the fish waste.

Murray Hallam Aquaponics (his YouTube channel)
http://www.youtube.com/user/fishandveggies

...and here is a short sample, if you're interested in the concept i'd suggest you do a torrent search, his DVD's are available for download and well worth the watch.


peace, bozo
The principles behind aquaponics are somewhat different from those behind ornamentals. However, using fish to feed plants in situ is nothing new, and it works at all scales. ;) Beyond that, the fishes typically kept for aquaponics are very destructive in that they like to arrange their home THEIR way (Tilapia are cichlids, Africans to be more specific), and therefore they're usually kept separately from the plants, which again would go against the goal of a home aquarium.

The cat I'm liking for aquaponics information is Chris Bright at Agrotech. They've got a YouTube channel as well, and he gets into the nutrient management issues that this fishwoman has had a problem wrapping her head around.

See, the thing with 'nutrients' in aquaria is that in the home aquarium they're considered pollution, and the solution to pollution is dilution (water changes). Planted tanks will harness that, but they usually don't have enough fish to fully support the plants unless you've really pushed stocking density. Most hobbyists aren't able to pull that off very well.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,599
638
Lemme go ahead and share some fish pix on my HD. Just cuz I can.

K, first pic is just one of my all-time favorite Echinoderms, Ophioderma squamosissimum), aka the red serpent starfish. Great invert to keep in your smaller reef systems because it doesn't predate the way brittle stars do.
redserpent(ophioderma squamosissimum ).jpg


GORGEOUS specimen of Tridacna crocea. If you're into giant clams, go to Clams Direct. Barry Neigut is THE clam man! He's also a good friend of the Bobster and can use chopsticks.

MikeG_T.crocea_Orig.jpg


Alright, the photos I *do* have on my machine are from a wholesaler down on 104th in LA, Quality Marine. These are from more than 10yrs ago, but they've been around forever and they're still around. If anyone's ever wondered about shipping, holding, etc, of fish and exotics, just ask.

QltyMrn.1.JPG



Gotta love the standard Foxface lo, and I have a thing for sweetlips. :D
QltyMrn.2.JPG


QltyMrn.3.JPG


QltyMrn.5.JPG


QltyMrn.6.JPG


QltyMrn-crl.JPG
 
digdugdank

digdugdank

Select Genetics
327
93
when i was a teenager i worked at a local fish store and every thursday night we would go to la and pick up our fish supply for the week. they were huge wherehouses just like your pictures. i remember being in awwwwwwww...... of all the different species in one place. it was amazing. then the times changed and now fish stores get their fish delivered. i was very sad when that happened because the fish wherehouse was a trip i looked forward too. good old times, i cant wait to set up my reef tank. and yes i will be keeping clams in my reef tank. sps, and inverts are my favorite right now. i want an underwater sea garden in my bedroom, just amazing. @mr roboto,@respect, you guys have some nice stuff too. lets see some of those pond pictures you guys are holding on too. ill go outside a take a picture of the hole i started digging for my pond, im digging for about a 900 gallon pond with a slow running stream for filtration and a timed waterfall for looks and sound. awesome stuff guys keep it coming!! digdug!!
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,599
638
If you went to LA, then you went to 104th St. For sure. It's probably changed now, I'm sure it's changed since I was down there last. When I was down there last, Walt Smith had opened up a coral rearing facility that he was stocking with specimens from his collecting outfit in Fiji.

I tell you what. Some of my favorite stoners are fish heads. The others are chefs and make me food to nom. :D

Discount Tropical used to middle. He'd take in deliveries at LAX, as well as hitting places like SDC (love that place, you know they supply to LBAOP? LBAOP's other 'supplier' is Fish & Game at LAX--confiscations!) and then he'd usually just rebag and box the fish and then into the panel truck they'd go, to be delivered around the rest of SoCal. No acclimation at that point, just rebagging and he'd let the destination shops handle acclimation on site.

So... you're saying that folks don't order from the wholesalers like they used to, or what? How long ago are we talking about here, with regard to when you were doing that, if you don't mind me asking?
 
neverbreak

neverbreak

1,223
163
cool thread, but i hold serious issue with the industry. as i understand it, most, if not all the stock available in aquaria are captured from the wild, impactin natural ecosystems n contributin to overfishin n the decline of biodiversity. it's amazin seein these weird n beautiful animals in an aquarium but i intensely dislike how they come to be there. just my 2 cents.

neverbreak
 
mr roboto

mr roboto

369
93
Damn I gotta ind my old reef tank pics.........i'll take more pics of my pond over the weekend..I gottan clean it out kuz my dogs went swimming and tore up a lot of plants and couldnt clean it up yet...I get home when its too dark
 
mr roboto

mr roboto

369
93
Ive also kept many blue ring octopus which is by far the trippiest thing to watch also the 3rd most poisonous animal on this earth but well worth it!! I get them for 25 bux by my house at a lfs here in socal
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,599
638
cool thread, but i hold serious issue with the industry. as i understand it, most, if not all the stock available in aquaria are captured from the wild, impactin natural ecosystems n contributin to overfishin n the decline of biodiversity. it's amazin seein these weird n beautiful animals in an aquarium but i intensely dislike how they come to be there. just my 2 cents.

neverbreak
GREAT post! I can speak at some length to this.

First, with specific regard to marine organisms, yes, many are indeed wild caught/collected, but not all. In comparison though, the total sum impact of ornamental collection, vs food collection is astonishingly small. In fact, the greatest impact on biodiversity, natural ecosystems and overfishing is still the food fish market. The worst? The Hong Kong/Chinese live fish market. Why? Those animals are collected using cyanide. It stuns them long enough to allow easy capture, without outright killing them. Of course, there are many tertiary effects seen on the reef, and one has to wonder if someone's eating a lot of fish that they saw live one minute and has then been served, how much cyanide are they actually consuming?

Pair that collection method with animals for an endeavor where the goal is longevity and you get a bad mix. They may eat, but they whither away, their stomachs unable to absorb the nutrition offered to them. (This is how we know that an animal has been collected with cyanide even if it comes back with acceptable levels or at zero!)

Bet you didn't know that the countries where these animals are fished have acceptable cyanide tissue levels, didja? They do, for a few reasons. One is an attempt to control cyanide use in food fish collection, the other is the fact that some of these circumtropical countries are also mined for gold, and so animals downstream of any goldmining will have been exposed to cyanide via watershed pathways. The other reason, one we don't talk about a lot in the industry, is that in certain countries (PI) there are basically gangs that control the fisherfolk and their outlets, and once we get into that territory we're stepping into a huge, complex mess of families, villages, gangs or mafiosi, pirates and so on.

And what you are bringing up here has played a role in why I no longer keep salties, and certain specific animals.

However! That said, HUGE leaps have been taken in husbandry. Clownfish should no longer be being wild caught, and I think we can say the same for most damselfishes and anything that has a non-pelagic larval stage. The development of kreisels (a type of system that doesn't kill plankton and other pelagics, such as jellyfishes) has allowed even more better husbandry. I wouldn't be surprised if, for example, captive-bred sea horses are widely available. I don't know anyone who has wild-caught corals in their tanks anymore, and the same is done with Tridacnids (giant clams).

And in my opinion, if the fisherfolk of these countries can be taught and then use sustainable collection methods then that, along with preservation of the MOST important areas, those being estuaries, lagoons and mangroves--all coastal areas where many animals spend their time as juveniles--along with locals creating sea 'farms' for aquarium specimens, then everyone wins.

Care can be taken, great care should be taken, when considering what one is going to keep and how. That beautiful imperator angelfish up there? Great for home systems if we're talking at least 100gals, several hundred to thousands would be better. It has a cousin, another angelfish called the Regal angelfish. This animal should not be collected and offered for sale AT ALL! Why? It only eats coral and so they usually die within a few months to years of capture.

Anemones? Carpets shouldn't be collected, they don't live in home aquaria very well or long. Bubble tips, or rose bubble tips? Are split and shared very easily, thrive in home aquaria conditions.

There's a lot to know and a lot to say about all of this, but mostly, care must be taken. :D I LOVE that you gave me an opportunity to talk about these issues, too, btw. Thank you.
 
AnitaBonghitt

AnitaBonghitt

19
3
I used to have a red serpent star. He was always on the glass where he can be seen, you never saw him move but was always in a different spot.

Question for seamaiden....

Ive always understood the difference between a serpent star and brittle star (how to tell them apart)are the small hair like tentacles on their legs ie.. brittle stars have them and serpents dont like the one you photographed. Is this correct? I had a guy at the LFS tell me there are no differences.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,599
638
Of course there's a difference! Different species, if nothing else. But the serpents are simply much easier to keep with fish than brittles also due to their habits. Serpent stars tend to be true detrivores, whereas, as I mentioned previously, brittles are known predators of all fishes. In fact, IIRC, that habit is described in their nomenclature, many being of the genus OphiARACHNA?
 
Funkstarfish

Funkstarfish

185
63
Nice Pics Sea. Ill see if i can find any old pics of my 120 acrylic reef from a ways back. Used to run a SPS dom reef with Maxima Clams and a school of domino damsels...
 
digdugdank

digdugdank

Select Genetics
327
93
now were cooking with fire. thanks seamaiden, i wanted to respond to neverbreaks question but felt i wasnt qualified to give as good of responce as you. i worked in a fish store for about 5 years for a friend in the 80's thats when i was able to go to the wherehouses with him and be amazed. i asked another friend that owns a store and he says he gets his stuff delivered. he goes online or phone's in orders, and the fish come a few days later. i was sad to hear that!! that is just one fish store that i know the owner personally so i dont know what the rest of the shops do now. i do know of two more fish stores that i was in when a delivery was coming in, so i think its common now but dont know for sure. i try to get species that are not just plucked from the ocean. i think my mantis shrimp is the only animal pulled from the sea. the big difference is that the mantis shrimp comes into the hobby by accident. they hide in the live rock that litters the beach and when the rock is harvested they hitchhike on the rocks and end up at the fish stores as a nousince , pest , these things cause great damage to reef tanks and can possibly break glass tanks. they kill everything they can catch and are generally discarded. i happen to love those quailities and happily brought him into my home. he has his own species tank made of clear plastic so he cant break it. he has some tank mates, (food) lol, there are 3 damsels (captive born), some snails and some hermit crabs. all there for his entertainment and food. i feed him all kinds of goods, cokkle in shell,shrimp,silversides,brine shrimp,and more... this is the 2nd mantis shrimp that ive kept, the first one got to be about 6 inches long and scared my dog everytime he hit the tank and made his snapping noise against the [email protected] my little leeroy has a domino as a tankmate he has been in the tank since christmas. i call him lucky!! more coming, digdug!!
 
neverbreak

neverbreak

1,223
163
GREAT post! I can speak at some length to this.

First, with specific regard to marine organisms, yes, many are indeed wild caught/collected, but not all. In comparison though, the total sum impact of ornamental collection, vs food collection is astonishingly small. In fact, the greatest impact on biodiversity, natural ecosystems and overfishing is still the food fish market. The worst? The Hong Kong/Chinese live fish market. Why? Those animals are collected using cyanide. It stuns them long enough to allow easy capture, without outright killing them. Of course, there are many tertiary effects seen on the reef, and one has to wonder if someone's eating a lot of fish that they saw live one minute and has then been served, how much cyanide are they actually consuming?

Pair that collection method with animals for an endeavor where the goal is longevity and you get a bad mix. They may eat, but they whither away, their stomachs unable to absorb the nutrition offered to them. (This is how we know that an animal has been collected with cyanide even if it comes back with acceptable levels or at zero!)

Bet you didn't know that the countries where these animals are fished have acceptable cyanide tissue levels, didja? They do, for a few reasons. One is an attempt to control cyanide use in food fish collection, the other is the fact that some of these circumtropical countries are also mined for gold, and so animals downstream of any goldmining will have been exposed to cyanide via watershed pathways. The other reason, one we don't talk about a lot in the industry, is that in certain countries (PI) there are basically gangs that control the fisherfolk and their outlets, and once we get into that territory we're stepping into a huge, complex mess of families, villages, gangs or mafiosi, pirates and so on.

And what you are bringing up here has played a role in why I no longer keep salties, and certain specific animals.

However! That said, HUGE leaps have been taken in husbandry. Clownfish should no longer be being wild caught, and I think we can say the same for most damselfishes and anything that has a non-pelagic larval stage. The development of kreisels (a type of system that doesn't kill plankton and other pelagics, such as jellyfishes) has allowed even more better husbandry. I wouldn't be surprised if, for example, captive-bred sea horses are widely available. I don't know anyone who has wild-caught corals in their tanks anymore, and the same is done with Tridacnids (giant clams).

And in my opinion, if the fisherfolk of these countries can be taught and then use sustainable collection methods then that, along with preservation of the MOST important areas, those being estuaries, lagoons and mangroves--all coastal areas where many animals spend their time as juveniles--along with locals creating sea 'farms' for aquarium specimens, then everyone wins.

Care can be taken, great care should be taken, when considering what one is going to keep and how. That beautiful imperator angelfish up there? Great for home systems if we're talking at least 100gals, several hundred to thousands would be better. It has a cousin, another angelfish called the Regal angelfish. This animal should not be collected and offered for sale AT ALL! Why? It only eats coral and so they usually die within a few months to years of capture.

Anemones? Carpets shouldn't be collected, they don't live in home aquaria very well or long. Bubble tips, or rose bubble tips? Are split and shared very easily, thrive in home aquaria conditions.

There's a lot to know and a lot to say about all of this, but mostly, care must be taken. :D I LOVE that you gave me an opportunity to talk about these issues, too, btw. Thank you.

i love that u took the time to write that response sea. it's good to see others care about these issues because they are critically important. if we want to see beauty in the world around us, we need to look after it.

captive bred animals are the only way to go imo. whether we should be keeping captive animals at all is another issue, but if we're gonna, then they should never be wild caught.

i agree that the fishin industry is by far the greatest threat to marine ecosystems currently, perhaps with mining after that. unfortunately, most people won't give us eating fish for the sake of conservation. however, we can make better choices, choosin species that are not as heavily fished, choosing fast growin shallow water species (not fish like tuna, shark, etc), n trying to avoid fish caught with destructive fishin techniques such as purse seine nets (pole n line caught is best).

on a bit of a segue, did ya know that many of the dolphins in captivity, in places that espouse the importance of conservation, are actually captured in that japanese mass slaughter of dolphins each year? how fucked up is that? if ya haven't seen it, ya should watch a doco called "the cove".

neverbreak
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,599
638
Fishing techniques make a HUGE difference, but I'll tell you what, the biggest difference I experienced was diving a no-fishing beach on the Naval base in Guam.

I've seen The Cove, I personally don't agree with keeping Cetaceans in captivity at this time. I also am not so sure how I feel about keeping what I consider to be sentient beings (many, if not most Cephalopods) in captivity. Their intelligence really makes me wonder, ya know?

As for captive-bred only vs wild caught, I think a good balance can be struck. We've gotta remember that most of the fisherfolk in these countries are, by a huge margin, mostly very poor. If they can sustainably harvest wild animals, then I see no reason not to allow for that as well. Just as big a problem is suitability, as I mentioned above. I bet most folks have no idea how many clownfish and blue tangs died as a result of Finding Nemo.
 
neverbreak

neverbreak

1,223
163
it's easy to say that if fishin is sustainble, then there's no problem with it, n i hafta say i agree, but the reality is that it's not n that anything we now consider sustainable is so far beyond what iz actually sustainable that it's a joke. what i'm talkin about is the 'shiftin baseline syndrome'. look it up if ya don't already know what i'm talkin about. it's a serious concern for current attempts at conservation.

agree with the cephalopods too sea. i often think about it. they're highly intelligent creautes, no doubts there.

neverbreak
 
Top Bottom