The hardest thing about growing in coco

[outwest]

With 50/50 I don't check my runoff. I water with jacks 3-2-1 for 2-3 days. Then, I flush with plain water 2-3 days. Then a dose of tea. I water for 15-20 seconds every hour. They are in 12 gallon plastic totes..

They look awesome pretty much all the time these days.

I think the foam from sea green is yucca extract they put in as a "confidential" surfactant/wetting agent. Microbes don't foam things up in a matter of seconds.

Anyway I'm no pro, but that's my 2 cents. Stop babying your plants. Doing 2 straight days a week just water I am getting great results.

It would have to be ridiculously concentrated yucca to cause foam like that at 1ml/gallon, no? Most of the yucca surfactants I've seen are like An ounce to the gallon. What's odd, is that the only ingredient listed is fish hydrolysate, which is what I use to get rid of the foam. Hmmmm.

outwest

 

[ttystikk]

I have had no problems with salt buildup. Since I use the RDWC water to topdrip water onto my plants- and I water several times a day to 50% + runoff, the salt in the coco matches what's beneath. The relatively large volume of the RDWC helps keep things stable, and both the topdrip and the airstones keep the plant well watered if the RDWC level drops. Conversely, if the topdrip system stops working- and mine have occasionally, due to coco clogging them- the RDWC itself ensures the plants get their water.

Every few days I check my pH, temp, EC and do a visual inspection for any cloudiness or lack of clarity.

 

[Darth Fader]

Makes me glad I'm not in coco anymore. I completely disregard ph, ppms, and runoff. No salt build, no lockouts, no worries. Plants stay green until flush.

Have you tried regular flushing with a microbe tea?

outwest

No doubt Outwest. Seems like its the way to go: fader-proof! Just add water? Sign me up!

As soon as I get a house where I can mix supersoil and brew tea, I'm in.

what EC do you run regularly?

Hey KP, I run Jacks/CalNit/epsom in 3/2/1 ration plus Floralicious & Drip Clean @ 1.3 ec

Damn gnats!!!!!

Salts were never a problem unless you run GH 3part cool-aid

Tex

You ain't kidding about those gnats lately Tex. Constant battle of wills. They don't want to let go of my little veggers and then get sucked through the venting into the flower tent.

Salt can buildup in any medium.
Get rid of the salts is an excellent solution. Go organic.

Drop clean: From my experience and also while sampling the results of others that have used drip clean. Drip clean will not fix the problem of salt buildup from overfeeding.
It can make the end results worse. Some growers think they have a "safety blanket" when using drip clean.
Thinking then can then overfeed the plants. Also in turn flush/water less than needed, to then end up with a inferior tasting/burning meds. No thank you.

So here is what I have learned works until you can visually see the cues to know when to feed how much and how often.



If your growing blind. Meaning not checking runoff or monitoring EC then you can get hosed by salt buildup.


Here is how I dial in the feeding of salts.
1. Monitor the runoff. (ec/ppm -before and after the feed and/or water is given to the plants)
2. Monitor the PH. (before and after the feed and/or water is given to the plants)
3. Monitor the plants for how much they are eating, drinking, and transpiring. Checking weight of pots and how fast the weight is diminishing, amount of water in dehumifier/ac, watching the color of the plants stems, leaves and closely monitoring how they are responding to the level of nuts you are giving them.
After doing 3 adjust 1 and 2 as needed.
Keep doing that until you get them into the zone of rapid growth.

For example:
When you are feeding to high of an EC then they can stop or slow down the rate of eating/drinking and also transpiring/using what they were given.
When this happens, you will see the runoff ec gradually rise or maybe the pots stay wet or maybe both are happening at the same time.

If not corrected then problems start to happen.

You cannot force a plant to take in more salts than you apply, therefore if not watched the salts will build up.
Each strain is different and also can very depending on the stage of growth. My always performing the 3 steps (monitoring the runoff) you can keep the plants in check.


Agreed, That sums it up imho.
Hope all is well Darth.

Back 'atcha Lead. Things are looking pretty good this run since I caught it early, but damn I can be a lazy dumbass, taking things for granted because the plants are looking good. Almost the smae as the "safety blanket" effect you noted. Gotta remember: check the d@mn runoff. And yes, go organic - lol!

 

[outwest]

No doubt Outwest. Seems like its the way to go: fader-proof! Just add water? Sign me up!

As soon as I get a house where I can mix supersoil and brew tea, I'm in.



Hey KP, I run Jacks/CalNit/epsom in 3/2/1 ration plus Floralicious & Drip Clean @ 1.3 ec



You ain't kidding about those gnats lately Tex. Constant battle of wills. They don't want to let go of my little veggers and then get sucked through the venting into the flower tent.



Back 'atcha Lead. Things are looking pretty good this run since I caught it early, but damn I can be a lazy dumbass, taking things for granted because the plants are looking good. Almost the smae as the "safety blanket" effect you noted. Gotta remember: check the d@mn runoff. And yes, go organic - lol!

FWIW, I grow organic, brew teas, mix and now even reuse all my soil in fairly tight quarters. I certainly don't have a yard or outside space to work with. My grow is pretty small, which certainly has a bearing on things, but it with a little forethought and planning, it can be done. I imagine when you get over a certain amount of soil, you need a decent amount of space to work with it all.

Because of community, culture, and legislation, I'm forced to grow indoors. To be honest I hate it, find it shameful, and thoroughly wasteful from a resource perspective (mostly electric). However, I'm able to reuse my soil, have no runoff, and am now using very little ferts. My leftovers teas go on the front lawn. I could be leaching bad things into the ground water, but I'm pretty sure I'm just making my lawn look awesome. Either way I can't afford to not grow my own, so I play the game.

outwest

 

[Capulator]

DF you are running the same as me. I suggest watering for 2 waterings straight every week with pH 6.8-7.0 water.

 

[Darth Fader]

DF you are running the same as me. I suggest watering for 2 waterings straight every week with pH 6.8-7.0 water.

It's funny, my healthiest veggers ever were done feed/feed/feed/water and I used a flushing agent (Florakleen) at half strength. A lot of people recommend regular flushing with weak solution rather than plain water, claiming it messes up stored cations in the coco, so I typically flush now with diluted solution @250ppm. The prob is not doing it routinely. Question: why pH so high? Why 2 days straight? Is this what it takes to hit your target runoff ec/ppm. If you feed at 1.2 ec and your runoff is coming out at 1.2, would you still flush or consider it unnecessary?

 

[kushtrees]

From my experience with drip clean its useless... I randomly decided to stop using it and saw 0 difference. They key is a nutes, nutes, flush sort of sched for me I flush with a kelp/ humic, ACT, or RO water. Plus if u flush with RO you really don't have to pH it which helps me be lazy! Also not pushing the EC helps with this

Since feeding this way I haven't checked run off ppms more than once a grow for 3 grows, 1 with drip clean 2 without, and haven't had a single issue.

Go organic!! I love it, i keep tellig myself to try some organic chow mix but I keep putting it off..

 

[outwest]

From my experience with drip clean its useless... I randomly decided to stop using it and saw 0 difference. They key is a nutes, nutes, flush sort of sched for me I flush with a kelp/ humic, ACT, or RO water. Plus if u flush with RO you really don't have to pH it which helps me be lazy! Also not pushing the EC helps with this

Since feeding this way I haven't checked run off ppms more than once a grow for 3 grows, 1 with drip clean 2 without, and haven't had a single issue.

Go organic!! I love it, i keep tellig myself to try some organic chow mix but I keep putting it off..

I'd love to hear your thoughts on organic chow mix.

outwest

 

[kushtrees]

It would essentially be like organic coco with more waterings needed. I'ma try this on some garden plants in the spring/ summer...

10/15/75 compost(with EWC)/ coco/ hydroton. Keep an organic nute like earth juice highly bubbled, LOTS OF ACT. The main thing I've seen when people try straight coco with organic nutes is people have problems because they don't have enough bennies to break down the nutes quick enough. I was also thinking of having nutes go through a bio filter 1st, kind of like an aquaponic set up. Tho a bio filter might be a little much for like mint or what ever plants I try this on...

According to some ag article I read recently, and I have not been able to confirm this, there's a green house that sells certified organic veggies and grows using NFT with a bio filter to break down the organic inputs, like an aquaponic set up minus the fish...

I do not see why organic cannot grow as fast as hydro if you can efficiently break down inputs to minerals. Aquaponics can supposedly do it

Sorry for going off topic

 

[Capulator]

It's funny, my healthiest veggers ever were done feed/feed/feed/water and I used a flushing agent (Florakleen) at half strength. A lot of people recommend regular flushing with weak solution rather than plain water, claiming it messes up stored cations in the coco, so I typically flush now with diluted solution @250ppm. The prob is not doing it routinely. Question: why pH so high? Why 2 days straight? Is this what it takes to hit your target runoff ec/ppm. If you feed at 1.2 ec and your runoff is coming out at 1.2, would you still flush or consider it unnecessary?

My 35 gallon res takes 2-3 days to empty on the watering schedule I have. Each res waters 5 plants.

I started doing this about 2 months ago out of laziness. The plants don't look any different, so I figure I'm just saving nutes. Did you say you were running DTW? You know with DTW you can run very low ppms right?

I have been running my pH higher these runs. My MPB floats between 6.2 and 7.0 and to be honest the plants have never looked better.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I plumb my tanks with 3/4" tee'd off to 1/2" to flush my plants with a lot of water in a short time. It's extra work but always pays for it self. This way you can set up an auto program to do your work also. JK

 

[HighBurn8]

Damn gnats!!!!!

Salts were never a problem unless you run GH 3part cool-aid

Tex

Never had this prob with GH flora and i've been using it for a couple of years now.
Now Flora Nova on the otherhand will create rings around the coller like no one's business.

 

[Seamaiden]

... is managing salt buildup.

Agree or disagree?

In fact, even knowing it, it has still bit me in the butt more times than I care to say. it's frankly embarrassing. I'm even thinking of just switching to hempys (perlite/vermiculite). Does anyone know if salt buildup is an issue in other mediums such as perlite, vermiculite, or even rockwool?

Not for me, because my tendency is the opposite of the vast majority of other growers. Most growers want to push the plant as hard as they can, so they feed it til it begins to show problems. I do the opposite. I use as little as I can possibly get away with, until the plant shows problems. I sometimes wonder if my habit of always using just a wee bit of molasses or other sugar has anything to do with the responses. I cannot say that *my* methods result in the best yields, but I'm not after quantity, I'm after quality.

Salt buildup is a problem in ANY media if you're not careful about how you manage it, IMO/IME, which includes perlite hempy tubs. And lemme tell you, those were EASY, yet also easy to fuck up if you go a little too hard on the feeding, I found I had to go through a lot of water to get things cleared out, however, perhaps that was because I used 30gal tubs that were just far too big for me to move (some of them are still out on the back deck, they're too big for me to move when they're filled up with wet perlite and the reservoir at the bottom is full). I've got so much fucking perlite. Did you know that it sparks up and flashes really cool if you throw it into a fire? Try throwing some dried up rootballs into a(n outside) fire sometime, it's pretty cool.

So, biggest problem for me in coir was managing Ca. Future biggest problem, if I can figure out how to fire up the indoor space without it costing us extra (we're on full solar), will be doing purely organic coir in a method that mimics how I handle soil. I am undecided as to whether or not, and if so how much, guano I might use to supplement the dry mix. Same with the rock dusts that I typically use in soil (outdoors, soil food web methods).

Oh! I just read something interesting on another forum about Sea Green, lemme see if I can pull it back up.

Yay! I've gotta bookmark that.

I was really interested in finding out more info since I opened my mouth so much on this topic based on level of micro etc someone listed on page one. Which incidentally is actually the listed ingredients for a root inoculate they produce. I couldn't actually find anything saying sea green has those bacterias in it.? or just missed it. Also, sea green is registered in Oregon as a 1.5-0.5-4.0. with 3.7% humic acid, WA and NY 0.2-0.1-0.1. is all I could find. Beneficial biological registrant address is the same as a hydro store in NorCal.


At any rate, I couldn't think of anything else it could be, Ive been down the trail of many, many products and the composition and dosage of sea green is very small in comparison. So hormones or microbiological is all I could think of. If it were a hormone, the dosage would be higher and they would probably have a recommendation for not using it at certain growth stages.... But their feed chart shows use throughout the plants life. So now back to bacteria..... I found,

Several years ago first in 03 then in 06 a guy/research company called primordial solutions in CO applied for a grant with the USDA to develop a bio-fertilizer. (That was called Geodex but was withdrawn)

Quote:
"Photosynthetic, nitrogen-fixing biofertilizer derived from native cyanobacteria"
http://www.reeis.usda.gov/web/crispr...rtilizers.html

Quote:
Deployed cyanobacterial inoculants stabilize the soil, contribute fixed nitrogen and carbon, and increase soil moisture. Since the biofertilizers is alive, these attributes improve with time and enhances the productivity and nutritional value of the native vascular vegetation. Taken together, this new industry will benefit environmental restoration, mining, energy extraction, and livestock industry. Finally, the productivity and economic health, managed by the USDA and USDI, will benefit.

http://www.ieca.org/membersonly/cms/...AbstractID=171
Quote:
In contrast, Primordial Solutions, Inc., has developed a technology that is designed to restore soil fertility, water retention, and reduce erosion without relying on the presence of vascular plants. Instead, we exploit photosynthetic microorganisms, called cyanobacteria or “blue-green algae,” which convert solar energy to stored chemical energy, and fix atmospheric nitrogen (N 2) into usable ammonia (NH3). The fixed nitrogen is ultimately incorporated into proteins and nucleic acids, biopolymers essential to life. Throughout the world, cyanobacteria, lichens, bacteria, and fungi, establish selfsufficient microbial communities called “Biological Soil Crusts” (BSC). In the American southwest, BSC are responsible for 99% of the nitrogen input, represent up to 70% of the living ground cover, improve the nutritional value of forage plants, improve water retention, and control erosion.
That is.... if its the same company/related company. Primordial Solutions is registered as a brand name of the product registered by Beni Bio and a business name of a company in CO.

 

[Edr]

I started in coco using organic bottled nutes (pura vida), with decent results, but could never get things 'right'. I hated having to regulate pH. So I would say the need to pH was the hardest thing about coco, ok maybe not hardest, but biggest pain in the ass. Since I've always been organic I've never measured PPMs (don't even own a pen) but I imagine that would be a pain in the ass too.

As I understand it salt build up can be easily managed with products like drip clean.

outwest

Correct you can get products to remove the salts.. or when you do your watering get a good run off every time and that will wash away a lot of salts. Put ur girls up on pot elevators so they are not sitting in run off water and just up taking the salts.. on off feeding days get a good 30% or more run off and the salt issue won’t be so much.