The myth of vitamin b-1

[Smoking Gun]

I agree, we do need studies of indoor Cannabis, lots of them. So until then I agree, there is no definitive answer.

 

[Capulator]

;) This is a compost/crabmeal/oatmeal/tiny amount alfalfa "sachet" about to mold over for a late flower tea....got a little hair on her now. Smells like a bucket full of assholes.
View attachment 241319View attachment 241320

on man that looks DEEEEElicious!!!

 

[Mississip Hip]

man...I hooked up a sick buddy and took over his spot. I am 2 weeks from the chop and broke as the 10 commandments. What they NEED is Caps bennies....but leftovers are working ok! Thats my outdoor soil mix stuff. I will be placing an order soooon homie.;)

I got spoiled to those shiny sacks.:rolleyes:

 

[squiggly]

As capulator said trichoderma will activate SAR as well, and it does other cool stuff. I really am skeptical as to whether or not roots will actually take up b vitamins--it may detect them and respond--but I just don't see that shit crossing a plasma membrane without an active transporter (although I don't know if one exists or not--can't find evidence of one).

 

[sky high]

Interesting reading about other horticultural myths from the same source material Cap cited in his original post:

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda chalker-scott/horticultural myths_files/index.html

i found the pdf's on "compost tea" very interesting....as well as the articles on mychorrizae... seaweed ....bone meal...foliar spraying.... uhumm...uhummm...uhummmm...... lots and lotsa stuff that mirrors many practices touted on cannabis boards/elsewhere as being beneficial that may/may not be based on any real evidence, conclusive studies, or backing from Universities/laboratories/etc.

either way....Linda could probably grow some mean green....LOL. Kick it, beee-atch!

s h

 

[Mississip Hip]

As capulator said trichoderma will activate SAR as well, and it does other cool stuff. I really am skeptical as to whether or not roots will actually take up b vitamins--it may detect them and respond--but I just don't see that shit crossing a plasma membrane without an active transporter (although I don't know if one exists or not--can't find evidence of one).

What if I run a sterile rez and dont have tricoderma?

I'm not skeptical at all. I see the results.

 

[cheaplastic]

Chitosan FTW!!!

 

[Capulator]

Interesting reading about other horticultural myths from the same source material Cap cited in his original post:

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda chalker-scott/horticultural myths_files/index.html

i found the pdf's on "compost tea" very interesting....as well as the articles on mychorrizae... seaweed ....bone meal...foliar spraying.... uhumm...uhummm...uhummmm...... lots and lotsa stuff that mirrors many practices touted on cannabis boards/elsewhere as being beneficial that may/may not be based on any real evidence, conclusive studies, or backing from Universities/laboratories/etc.

either way....Linda could probably grow some mean green....LOL. Kick it, beee-atch!

s h

yeah that site is the shit.

 

[Capulator]

What if I run a sterile rez and dont have tricoderma?

I'm not skeptical at all. I see the results.

Then all your plants will die.


(just kidding)

 

[squiggly]

What if I run a sterile rez and dont have tricoderma?

I'm not skeptical at all. I see the results.

Perfectly logical reasoning there.

However you could:

Adjust silica levels to induce SAR.

Ferment some nettles, or brew a tea with extract for the same purpose.

Edit: if you want to be really tricky--you can add some aspirin to your water. This will really get the juices pumping, and its every bit as natural as any b supplement.

Or you could check out a product like Actigard, which was developed to mimic the activity of aspirin and has shown promising results in fruit trials.

Here's one:

 

[El Cerebro]

for sar the aspirin needs to first be dissolved, warmed ethanol works for me. maybe someone using simpler sources of salicylic?

Squig, are you very familiar with dmso/msm? Stanley Jacob's work? thoughts on supplementing with them? (can take this to a sulphur thread if too off topic)

 

[squiggly]

I am principally an organic chemist and so my knowledge of DMSO is mostly as a solvent. Upon further reading I find that it has the ability to alter permeability of membranes. This could be good for cannabis cultivation and use in a myriad of ways. To start, a safety caveat:

DMSO does not merely pull things through membranes (like skin) it actually alters their permeability for a time. If you are going to be using DMSO it is important to avoid skin contact at all costs--this can open your skin to contaminants and invaders, and result in some NASTY dermal/epidermal infections. Dangerous stuff.

That said.

1. This could be used in topical creams to speed uptake into the body--but sanitary conditions must be maintained for a time after application (and the area should be thoroughly cleaned before application).

2. There are a myriad of studies in terms of the benefits of using DMSO with agriculture. The following abstract seems to indicate that experimentation is warranted.

3. Care should be taken when applying DMSO to plants--it may end up being a bad thing for them depending on what exactly their membranes become permeable too. For the same reason as with skin application--sanitary conditions are absolutely crucial to success with this method.

I hope that helps--I'm afraid that's about the best I can do.



Effect of dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) on zinc availability (L-value), growth and metabolic activities of rice plants

Abstract

Effects of soil application (0.01, 0.1 and 1%) and foliar sprays (0.001, 0.01 and 0.1%) of dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) and soil application of Zn (10 and 20 ppm) on growth, yield, photosynthetic pigments and some enzymatic activities of rice (Oryza sativa L. variety Jaya) were investigated in a Zn-deficient soil under pot culture trials. Control plants showed typical Zn deficiency symptoms, very low dry matter and chlorophyll contents and significantly lower activities of carbonic anhydrase and tryptophan synthetase. Application of 10 or 20 ppm Zn to the soil markedly improved plant growth, chlorophyll content, enzymatic activities, Zn availability (L-value), and grain yield. Application of 1% DMSO to the soil proved to be severly phytotoxic for plant growth and dry matter accumulation. Application of lower doses of DMSO to the soil (0.01 and 0.1%) or as foliar sprays (0.001 and 0.01%), however, slightly increased dry weights of all plant parts at 45 days after transplanting. Grain yield was significantly increased by all DMSO treatments, except 1% soil application which completely suppressed the grain formation.
Enzymatic activities and chlorophyll and carotenoid accumulation showed concentration-dependent stimulation or inhibition by DMSO treatments. Carbonic anhydrase activity was significantly increased by most of the DMSO treatments whereas tryptophan synthetase activity was stimulated only by the lowest dose of soil (0.01%) and foliar (0.001%) applications. Chlorophyll content was stimulated by lower doses of foliar application of DMSO (0.001 and 0.01%) but the other DMSO treatments brought about a concentration-dependent decrease in chlorophyll accumulation. Carotenoid accumulation was inversely related to that of chlorophylls. Chlorophyll: carotenoid ratio was increased by all DMSO and Zn treatments except 1% soil application of DMSO. Zn availability (L-value) of the soil was increased by all DMSO treatments. Zn content of leaf blades was positively correlated with chlorophyll content (r=0.579), tryptophan synthetase (r=0.700) and carbonic anhydrase (r=0.537) activities but negatively correlated with that of carotenoid content (r=–0.896). The possible mechanisms of DMSO on plants are discussed in relation to its possible agricultural utility.

 

[squiggly]

As for sourcing--I'd get any chemicals like this from either natural sources (some spices and the like carry things like salycilic acid, jasmonates, mevalonates), or from a REPUTABLE chemical supplier, like Sigma-Aldrich or something like that.

If you get the plant cell culture tested versions of these products you will be getting product intended for biochemical use (which means it will not be processed with nasty things like benzene). When buying chemicals, cheaper is almost never better. There's no such thing as a deal on chemicals (unless a new process is discovered, or a patent expires). There are just less pure chemicals.

 

[Mississip Hip]

the Pranksters used to mix LSD and DMSO and put it into squirt guns.

Get some of that!

 

[Capulator]

for sar the aspirin needs to first be dissolved, warmed ethanol works for me. maybe someone using simpler sources of salicylic?

Squig, are you very familiar with dmso/msm? Stanley Jacob's work? thoughts on supplementing with them? (can take this to a sulphur thread if too off topic)

So far off topic now but who gives a fuck.

the Pranksters used to mix LSD and DMSO and put it into squirt guns.

Get some of that!

shittiest prank of all time. Dosing people who don't they are being dosed can lead to very distressed people.

 

[El Cerebro]

Effect of dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) on zinc availability (L-value), growth and metabolic activities of rice plants

can you cite the source for this? pretty interesting.

btw, dmso used properly is a very effective transdermal carrier and has various therapeutic effects on it's own. caution with cleanliness is advised for reasons squiggly stated, but its history of hype/hysteria/suppression is hardly earned.

worth noting if you work with it, can dissolve nitrile gloves but latex are supposedly fine (read that after i'd already used the black nitrile ones with 99% and seemed ok). if you just read and follow the literature, it's not particularly dangerous.

 

[Mississip Hip]

I will bring it back in focus Cap.

Why would you use all these different chemicals to do what thiamine will do? If you want to make sure...use a little B1. The stuff I use is cheap....why fuck with asprin and DMSO?

If you are gonna try to boost SAR, that is.

I run about 50 ppms just in case. ANyhow...thats what I do.

 

[El Cerebro]

meant the dmso for other shit not sar, shoulda taken that elsewhere.

so if b is nonsense then why use moab instead of just mkp/map for pennies on the dollar?

 

[Capulator]

meant the dmso for other shit not sar, shoulda taken that elsewhere.

so if b is nonsense then why use moab instead of just mkp/map for pennies on the dollar?

THAT is exactly why I was researching vitamin B-1. The GA you posted on MOAB. Seems to me MKP plus MAP is all MOAB is. I don't care what DW says.

 

[Blaze]

. Seems to me MKP plus MAP is all MOAB is.

Yep, that is all it is. You can make it yourself for a fraction of what the hydro stores sell it for. Works quite well too, I've been using home made MOAB on some of my plants for a while now....