The real magical additive, Ascophyllum Nodosum

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Hashshashin

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RE: KELPAK

The KELPAK product is used in agriculture because it's a clear liquid and flows easily through the water irrigation/spraying systems - it's easy to apply and cost effective.

Unlike Maxicrop and other seaweed processors who use some form of an alkaloid extraction process, KELPAK uses a mechanical process whereby the 'juice' of the kelp is the end result. That in and of itself would be okay except that they also manipulate a specific set of auxins (plant hormones) to achieve root-growth enhancement.

RE: Bull Kelp (Nereocystis Luetkeana)

Bull kelp is found on the West Coast of the US - particularly along Oregon, Washington and on up to British Columbia. There is a product made from this seaweed/kelp out of Vancouver, British Columbia called KELPGROW. It like KELPAK is used primarily in the agriculture industry. The manufacturer uses a different process than either Maxicrop or KELPAKl - I'll explain that in a minute.

There is another seaweed extract product made from this variety from Eco-Nutrients.

Both of these 2 products differ from all the other major products from around the world (including China, India, Vietnam, et al.) in that the kelp is processed using enzymes, i.e. hydrolysate. Just like the process to make fish hydrolysate, i.e. the application of lactobacillus strains to break the matter down.

RE: Maxicrop

Maxicrop is processed in Norway along with about 4 other companies who play in the 'spot market' in the kelp industry. Maxicrop uses an alkaloid extraction process that involves heat - limiting the microbial activity. It is shipped in the dry form to their plants around the world.

Here's where the rub is from my perspective - it's the mixing of the seaweed extract (powder) with the local water at the plant in Illinois that brings about the chlorine issues. And for whatever reason they add soluble potash to the base mix.

The best soluble seaweed extract that is derived from Acophyllum Nodosum is out of Nova Scotia, i.e. Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. They use an cold-process method of extraction which maintains high microbial activity levels. One of their product lines is human food-grade and is the one that you'll find in the various herbal supplements found at a health food store.

This is the product that is widely used by nutrient manufacturers because of it's purity and solubility - 99% and if you source it correctly it's 1/2 the price of Maxicrop Seaweed Powder.

Over 99% of the kelp MEAL sold in North America comes from this plant as well. It's sold under several names at the wholesale level and is available through feed stores, farm stores, etc. Especially where horses are raised and bred - like humans and plants, horses benefit from the addition of kelp meal/products to their diet.

For good solid information on the application of kelp and seaweed extracts, the work of Dr. T.L. Senn is the best place to start.

BTW - simply adding kelp meal to a bucket of water and let it sit for a couple of days is a very effective way of adding 'AN' to your gardens and pretty inexpensive.

OT


Thanks for putting it better than i could. I dont spend much time here, so i feel bad for not answering questions. I believe AN is a better all around sea kelp while bull kelp is great for their PGH.

Kelpak is better suited for veg as in flower it may take away from the flowering potential after the stretch. It will also probably make a larger stretch and more branches. Kelpak/AN can decrease leaf senescence which is usually what you see at the end of a grow cycle so i avoid it after the stretch. This is because i believe in letting the leaves use up their sugar and wouldn't like to keep them around longer as it is. IMO this increases harvest time which is ok if your patient.

People think all AN extract is equal but its not. In the US however most AN comes from Acadian Seaplants as noted earlier If your gonna buy maxi your better off doing the soak method mentioned above. Thats how i've done for weeks, until the recent switch to the soluble powder. I'm never going back...
 
JayBee

JayBee

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Well i got my package today and one of the items in their was the "kelpak". Two things right off the bat though- one it was labelled with Kelpak id number but it also says "sea grow" on the bottle. Number two the liquid is NOT clear in terms of being colorless. Maybe they mean clear in another way?

I just tried little of this stuff on some vegging plants in hempy buckets. Also sent an email to the copany to confirm what i got is in fact kelpak!

One more thing, i also got some soluable extract powder from tecnoflora today. Will try that out sometime in the near future too.

JB
 
D

dican01

184
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Well i got my package today and one of the items in their was the "kelpak". Two things right off the bat though- one it was labelled with Kelpak id number but it also says "sea grow" on the bottle. Number two the liquid is NOT clear in terms of being colorless. Maybe they mean clear in another way?

I just tried little of this stuff on some vegging plants in hempy buckets. Also sent an email to the copany to confirm what i got is in fact kelpak!

One more thing, i also got some soluable extract powder from tecnoflora today. Will try that out sometime in the near future too.

JB

did you order from hydro-gardens? that is where i ordered from. i also noticed on their website that the bottle said "sea grow" and not "kelpak". my guess is that they buy it in bulk and package it themselves. i don't think it is supposed to be clear. when i use AN, the water is almost black.

i also saw a really good fish emulsion on the hydro-gardens website (). E.S. Fish Emulsion (5-1-1.5). seems there are two methods of commercially manufacturing fish emulsion products: "enzyme hydrolysis" and "fish soluble". E.S. Fish Emulsion employs the fish soluble method as it yields a natural organic product which is not chemically amended. The balance of elements has been found to act as an unknown growth factor; the results outperform inorganic fertilizers with much higher N, P and K values. this stuff seems like it would be a really good veg formula. thinking i might give it a try.

RE: Bull Kelp (Nereocystis Luetkeana)

Bull kelp is found on the West Coast of the US - particularly along Oregon, Washington and on up to British Columbia. There is a product made from this seaweed/kelp out of Vancouver, British Columbia called KELPGROW. It like KELPAK is used primarily in the agriculture industry. The manufacturer uses a different process than either Maxicrop or KELPAKl - I'll explain that in a minute.

There is another seaweed extract product made from this variety from Eco-Nutrients.

Both of these 2 products differ from all the other major products from around the world (including China, India, Vietnam, et al.) in that the kelp is processed using enzymes, i.e. hydrolysate. Just like the process to make fish hydrolysate, i.e. the application of lactobacillus strains to break the matter down.

OT

i looked into KELPGROW, and the stuff looks amazing. it's just straight raw kelp. only thing is i can't find a distributor in the US. anyone know where you can find this stuff?
 
JayBee

JayBee

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Thanks for the info Dican, that is where i got it from. I am sure it is just me seeing things, but the two plants that got the kelpak yesterday look better and more healthy than i have ever seen them (and they looked good before). I have a feeling this website is about to sell a whole lot of kelpak...

JB
 
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Hashshashin

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Dican- Their fish emulsion is great stuff. Also i do believe Kelpak is clear since its not your typical brown or black. Either that or its more clear than i'm used to.I'd like to hear whats going on. I don't think its beyond the companies to bottle their own,especially in the sea kelp industry. Glad to hear whatever product youu may have is working for you.

I hope anyone who has been reading this thread caught on. I find it to be the one thing i use almost every watering except for later flowering.
 
JayBee

JayBee

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Here is what they said:

Yes. We changed suppliers so we had to keep the name Kelpak because it is in our catalog still. All the information on the web is current for the new product. If you are looking in a catalog, it’s the old Kelpak.



I hope that explains it without being too confusing.



Webmaster



HGI Worldwide, Inc dba Hydro-Gardens
 
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dican01

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Here is what they said:

Yes. We changed suppliers so we had to keep the name Kelpak because it is in our catalog still. All the information on the web is current for the new product. If you are looking in a catalog, it’s the old Kelpak.



I hope that explains it without being too confusing.



Webmaster



HGI Worldwide, Inc dba Hydro-Gardens

that confused me. so it is kelpak? or it is not kelpak?
 
JayBee

JayBee

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I asked for more explanation too and got this:

QUOTE

Sea Grow Plus is a blend of extract from natural ocean kelp and fish emulsion. Its ratio of organic nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium (N-P-K) is 2-1-2. Sea Grow Plus is highly recommended as a foliar nutrient spray, which is an extremely efficient method of providing nutrients directly to the plant. This liquid fertilizer may also be applied directly to the soil.

KELPAK concentrate is obtained by an exclusive process using mechanical pressure to burst the cell walls of Ecklonia maxima kelp. This purposefully avoids the use of extreme temperatures, dehydration, hydrolysis and freezing. The kelp concentrate has been scientifically proven to stimulate root development (auxin-like compounds) and flowering (cytokinin-like compounds) in a wide variety of crops. The general application rate is 1 quart per acre or 1:500 dilution.

That is the best I can tell you. I hope this helps.

Webmaster

HGI Worldwide, Inc dba Hydro-Gardens

END QUOTE

Ok, this still has me confused because now they are talking about "Sea Grow Plus". It also has me very annoyed as if they are not mixing up Sea Grow and Sea Grow Plus they are sending something totally different than Kelpak even though i ordered kelpak and tha tis what they said i was receiving. I will hold off on judgement or conclusions till they get back to me with clear answer.

JB
 
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Hashshashin

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I'm sorry for the problems you've encountered. I hope you get things worked out. I would be very pissed if its just a subpar product. the main reason kelpak is so good is their extraction process. Where did you order from so i can find out on this source. If they dont have the information their supplier will.

I just want to make sure your using a quality product if you spent your money on it.
 
D

dican01

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I'm sorry for the problems you've encountered. I hope you get things worked out. I would be very pissed if its just a subpar product. the main reason kelpak is so good is their extraction process. Where did you order from so i can find out on this source. If they dont have the information their supplier will.

I just want to make sure your using a quality product if you spent your money on it.

seems that both of us ordered from the same place. the only retailer i found in the US.
 
JayBee

JayBee

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So I just got back my answer from them, they said they were sorry if i was not happy with my purchase, and if i paid to ship the unoppened bottle back them they would give me refund.

Of course it will cost same to ship it back as I paid for the bottle and I already used little bit before realizing it was not kelpak.

I am really unhappy with these folks, totally bait and switch. This Sea-Grow plus may be great product, but it IS NOT kelpak. If not illegal seems unethical at least. Sorry to get this thread off topic. Would not reccomend ordering from HGI or Hydro-gardens at this point.

I will try the technoflora extra powder next...

JB
 
D

dican01

184
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So I just got back my answer from them, they said they were sorry if i was not happy with my purchase, and if i paid to ship the unoppened bottle back them they would give me refund.

Of course it will cost same to ship it back as I paid for the bottle and I already used little bit before realizing it was not kelpak.

I am really unhappy with these folks, totally bait and switch. This Sea-Grow plus may be great product, but it IS NOT kelpak. If not illegal seems unethical at least. Sorry to get this thread off topic. Would not reccomend ordering from HGI or Hydro-gardens at this point.

I will try the technoflora extra powder next...

JB

bummer. i just canceled my order. if it is not just kelpak, i am not interested at this point. seemed to be the only online retailer too, and i know no local hydro or garden shops would carry it.
seems like i have come full circle back to AN. maxicrop soluble powder. readily available and great results. think i will stick with this stuff for a while.
 
JayBee

JayBee

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Couple updates. After my strongly worded email they said they would refund my money no need to send back the sea-grow.

I am wondering though if they are not confused as this stuff says sea grow, not sea grow plus and when i check the ec it is very minimal.

I have actually sent an email to the company and gotten the name of a local distributor (not in usa or uk) who i will contact this week.

I suggest you contact the sales reps, they have been real helpful finding local place for me to buy.

As for HGI- I dont think they were actually trying to be sneaky but i do think they have no idea what is going on. If i am wrong and they do know what is what then they are straight up scammers, but i will give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that is not a tight ship they are running and no would should try to order Kelpak from their sight, Hydro-gardens.

JayBee
 
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Hashshashin

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Just so you guys know there is alos a better source than technaflora. If i were you i'd go with the KIS soluble seaweed. It is what i use and wouldnt change for the world. this stuff remnds me of a properly extracted/fermented seaweed extract but nicer. Its super soluble and causes no problems. At a price of $12/$13 a dry pound(only need a tsp per gal).A little goes a very, very long way.

I'm sorry you guys are having trouble with a product i recommened to you. I hope things get worked out. I know KIS organics will do their best to take care of you. Very knowledgeable people if you give them a call.
 
D

dican01

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got an email back from hydro gardens when i canceled my order. here it is.

We had to switch because our supplier stopped offering it. I am not sure of anyone else selling it. The Sea Grow was the closest we could find. I have changed all the information online now. I apologize for the confusion. If we could still get it, we would still be offering it.

Hydro Gardens Webmaster
 
L

LBZ Farmer

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General Orgainics will ship you a bottle of their Bio Weed for free if you have it sent to a hydro store. OR pay to have it delivered to your house... They sent me 8 bottles of their organic line free..... Nice guy let me tell you... Just go to the website and write a good email of why you want to try their product.
 
B

BudsSmoker

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Hashshasin you mentioned in an early post you could make your own AN. i live near the atlantic coast and often see the kelp i was wondering how i transform the raw salty kelp into a useful additive ?! Great post !!
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I just (started to) mix up my Maxicrop powder, which is allegedly highly soluble in water, and oh my God I made such a fucking mess. That stuff is DARK. Now I'll find out if it stains.

So, did you folks who ordered from Hydro-Gardens notice their Huma-Kelp product?


I'm not sure I'd like the humic already mixed, but then again maybe it's a more efficient combo. Right now I'm finishing using up my MicroHume, got a gallon of Humax and as I said, am mixing up the dry Maxicrop into a liquid with an application rate of 1-2tsp/gallon, which is much, much more concentrated than any other kelp extract I've used thus far.
 
cheaplastic

cheaplastic

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Soo a little off the current topic, but i was in the process of LSTing one of my OGJuana's and i noticed i was a little too rough with one of the branches and a small tear opened between the secondary stem and the main stalk..

out of desperation i decided to take a Q tip and swab some Liquefied Organic Kelp extract directly on the wound.. Was this a bad move?
 

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